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Fixing Module Behavior

First post
Author
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#1 - 2012-11-14 13:08:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Harari
There a bunch of things that are rather annoying about how modules work.

1) Module lag - the activation circle on your computer bears only a passing relation to the one on the servers. This leads right into

2) Heating lag - because the activation times dont match up, its a crap shoot on if you can get your next cycle to heat, or to stop heating. This could be fixed by fixing 1) or by letting us heat and unheat modules mid cycle

3) Cant heat while cloaked and/or jumping a gate resets heat state. When you jump into a gatecamp, you want to heat your mwd to get back to gate. Sometimes you want to jump in and immediately heat dps on someone who you are blobbing. Because of 1) and 2), you sometimes can, sometimes cannot. Allowing us to heat modules while cloaked (and take drugs while cloaked), would fix this, even if 1) and 2) remain unfixed. It would also be nice if nanite repairs were prorated for the time spent repairing before you jump, instead of just ending as if you never tried to repair anything.

4) Ammo is not ordered. Rename ammo so it is named like "EMP L, Republic Fleet" or "Scourge, Fury" and then order ammo in the weapon loading lists alphabetically. This will group missiles by damage type, hybrids by ammo type (instead of having Shadow Antimatter and Caldari Navy Antimatter in entirely different places in the list), etc.

5) If you want to load a new ammo after finishing the current group, you have to either pause on 1 shot left, or reload twice or fiddle with autoreload settings. Allow queueing up of reloading by letting us tell the gun to reload while it is firing, and making that understood as "empty this current clip, and then load the selected ammo." Lasers should reload after the current cycle. Lasers in particular suffer from reloading + the module desync since instead of being able to swap ammo instantly, it often takes 1-2 seconds (which is slower than instant)

6) When you toggle a module off, you cant tell it to toggle on until the cycle finishes. Because of 1) this often means your module turns off for a few seconds. Allow us to tell a module that is red (ie, it will shut off after the current cycle) "No, i actually want you to stay on, go back to green."

7) Nanite repair indicator. The flashing while circle doesnt tell you how long it is going to take, or if it is going to work at all. Guns in particular sometimes just refuse to repair, or say they are repairing when they are done. I believe this has something to do with the fact that guns with different heat damage can be grouped together and repaired as one.


2), 3) and 6) all really are caused by 1), but they can each be fixed independently. I presume 1) is hard to fix (even if it would be a really worthwhile thing to spend time on), which is why I listed them separately.
Iris Bravemount
Golden Grinding Gears
#2 - 2012-11-14 13:22:00 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
There a bunch of things that are rather annoying about how modules work.

1) Module lag - the activation circle on your computer bears only a passing relation to the one on the servers. This leads right into

2) Heating lag - because the activation times dont match up, its a crap shoot on if you can get your next cycle to heat, or to stop heating. This could be fixed by fixing 1) or by letting us heat and unheat modules mid cycle

3) Cant heat while cloaked and/or jumping a gate resets heat state. When you jump into a gatecamp, you want to heat your mwd to get back to gate. Because of 1) and 2), you sometimes can, sometimes cannot. Allowing us to heat modules while cloaked (and take drugs while cloaked), would fix this, even if 1) and 2) remain unfixed.

4) Ammo is not ordered. Rename ammo so it is named like "EMP L, Republic Fleet" or "Scourge, Fury" and then order ammo in the weapon loading lists alphabetically. This will group missiles by damage type, hybrids by ammo type (instead of having Shadow Antimatter and Caldari Navy Antimatter in entirely different places in the list), etc)

5) If you want to load a new ammo after finishing the current group, you have to either pause on 1 shot left, or reload twice or fiddle with autoreload settings. Allow queueing up of reloading by letting us tell the gun to reload while it is firing, and making that understood as "empty this current clip, and then load the selected ammo."

6) When you toggle a module off, you cant tell it to toggle on until the cycle finishes. Because of 1) this often means your module turns off for a few seconds. Allow us to tell a module that is red (ie, it will shut off after the current cycle) "No, i actually want you to stay on, go back to green."


2), 3) and 6) all really are caused by 1), but they can each be fixed independently. I presume 1) is hard to fix (even if it would be a really worthwhile thing to spend time on), which is why I listed them separately.


Very good points. I support everything accross the board.

"I will not hesitate when the test of Faith finds me, for only the strongest conviction will open the gates of paradise. My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity." - Paladin's Creed

Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#3 - 2012-11-14 13:29:29 UTC
Added a little more
Michael Loney
Skullspace Industries
#4 - 2012-11-14 14:12:58 UTC
+7 ( 1 for each point )

Al very good ideas / suggestions, I very much like the idea of queuing the next ammo reload.
Olerie Viliana
Spaceforce Junkies
Atomic Fusion Industries
#5 - 2012-11-14 20:06:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Olerie Viliana
I support this whole heartedly, maybe your UI teams time would be better spent making sure the basic functions of flying your ship actually functions properly instead of makeing squares into circles.

Also, I'd like to add the really annoying bug where when you select the dock option on a station, you will warp to it and sometimes you will dock, sometimes you will not.

I would also like to mention that sometimes the problem with the module lag is so bad, it is almost an entire cycle off. Meaning when I tell an active mod to deactivate, I have to wait almost another full cycles worth of time before I can reactivate (or do anything with it) because the green bar makes almost another entire cycle for no reason.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#6 - 2012-11-14 20:10:10 UTC
Olerie Viliana wrote:


Also, I'd like to add the really annoying bug where when you select the dock option on a station, you will warp to it and sometimes you will dock, sometimes you will not.



This is caused by landing out of docking range, its not really an interface error. You can get around this by having safes 0m away from stations you dock at.
Olerie Viliana
Spaceforce Junkies
Atomic Fusion Industries
#7 - 2012-11-14 20:21:15 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Olerie Viliana wrote:


Also, I'd like to add the really annoying bug where when you select the dock option on a station, you will warp to it and sometimes you will dock, sometimes you will not.



This is caused by landing out of docking range, its not really an interface error. You can get around this by having safes 0m away from stations you dock at.


Whats particularly annoying about it is when I have to leave my computer for whatever reason, and I select dock. It auto warps to the station and docks, (some times however, it just warps and you sit there on 0 with the station)
Sofia Wolf
Ubuntu Inc.
The Fourth District
#8 - 2012-11-14 20:27:35 UTC
+1

Jessica Danikov > EVE is your real life. the rest is fantasy. caught in a corporation. no escape from banality. open up yours eyes, peer through pod good and seeeeeee. I'm just a poor pilot, I need no sympathy. because I'm easy scam, easy go, little isk, little know. anyway the solar wind blows...

Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#9 - 2012-11-15 21:38:36 UTC
bump
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#10 - 2012-11-15 23:02:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
very good points covers basically all major issues with the system.

reloading could be handled better by allowing reloding while the module is activated. The server would just enqueue the instruction and start the reload at the end of the current cycle. After it has been reloaded the module will start running again. This would fix all the stop/change charge type/start issues.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Angeal MacNova
Holefood Inc.
Warriors of the Blood God
#11 - 2012-11-16 01:13:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Angeal MacNova
Also, allowing turrets/launchers to resume firing after an auto reload.

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

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Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#12 - 2012-11-16 02:05:34 UTC
+1 to all of the above. I'd suggest adding these two as well:

1. At times a module (usually the prop mod or guns) will get 'stuck' in its current state. This means you can't turn your guns off (usually it's off) and you can't turn your MWD on. The current work around is to drag the module to another button on your overview, but it shouldn't need a work around.

2. When jumping into a ship, (especially T3s) I often get half the modules simply offline because they were loaded before a subsystem or fitting mod that supplies the needed CPU/PG to run the modules. This means that almost every time I get into a ship coming out of an SMA, or jump into a T3 in a station, I then have to go and turn all the modules back on.

Both of these issues are quite annoying.
Sven Hammerstorm
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2012-11-16 16:11:56 UTC
Good points. Hopefully we will see these addressed soon!
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#14 - 2012-11-17 04:07:06 UTC
bump
Olerie Viliana
Spaceforce Junkies
Atomic Fusion Industries
#15 - 2012-11-21 12:06:49 UTC
bump
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#16 - 2012-11-21 12:48:28 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
Some very good ideas. You're right that some of them are connected to #1 and that #1 is a tricky technical issue, but we have some smart people thinking about that problem. #3 is actually something we looked at for Retri but hit a blocker for now.

Some, like #6 and #7, may potentially be more standalone. I'll poke CCP Karkur since that kind of stuff is one of her specialties.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#17 - 2012-11-21 15:31:58 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
4) Ammo is not ordered. Rename ammo so it is named like "EMP L, Republic Fleet" or "Scourge, Fury" and then order ammo in the weapon loading lists alphabetically. This will group missiles by damage type, hybrids by ammo type (instead of having Shadow Antimatter and Caldari Navy Antimatter in entirely different places in the list), etc.


CRAP CRAP CRAP!

Why must people point me to threads about this kind of thing. Better yet why must you people make so much sense. ARG!

FINE! Be that way. No really, I never really noticed this before but now it is really hurting my brain.

While I cannot of course comment on when, or if, this will ever be done, I can tell you it is hurting my brain. Thanks for that by the way.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-11-21 15:34:30 UTC
i am so sorry :D
Jarin Arenos
Card Shark Industries
#19 - 2012-11-21 17:20:22 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
4) Ammo is not ordered. Rename ammo so it is named like "EMP L, Republic Fleet" or "Scourge, Fury" and then order ammo in the weapon loading lists alphabetically. This will group missiles by damage type, hybrids by ammo type (instead of having Shadow Antimatter and Caldari Navy Antimatter in entirely different places in the list), etc.


CRAP CRAP CRAP!

Why must people point me to threads about this kind of thing. Better yet why must you people make so much sense. ARG!

FINE! Be that way. No really, I never really noticed this before but now it is really hurting my brain.

While I cannot of course comment on when, or if, this will ever be done, I can tell you it is hurting my brain. Thanks for that by the way.

OCD can be a pain, but I gotta say, I'm very thankful for yours (even if I also pity you for it, occasionally). :D

But I'm not CCP Soundwave, so what do I know?

Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#20 - 2012-11-21 17:29:38 UTC
module cycle timing is not *that* important if you find good workarounds for most common usecases. e.g changing charges during the fight.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

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