These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev Blog: Stay on Target - UI Features set for Retribution

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#61 - 2012-11-14 17:25:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Dersen Lowery
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Currently, hovering over the shield/armor/hull bars of your target shows you the percentage remaining. This is moderately important for POS shoots and such. I am worried that with the new indicators this quickly becomes annoying, as the circles are what, 3 pixels thick? I tried hovering over them in the image, and it takes quite some concentration.


That could be fixed by having the whole thing be one hover area that shows you the percentage remaining for all three.

I'm glad that CCP agreed with me that the shield/armor/hull indicators should parallel the HUD, but I was hoping that it was the HUD that would get changed. That said, the vivid contrast between the red and the white make at-a-glance reading easy for me. I'm not sure why the arc is 180 degrees on one and 270 on the other, but that's not a major inconsistency.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
TheLostPenguin
Surreal Departure
#62 - 2012-11-14 17:29:04 UTC
Well this looks better than idea #1, which was more of a mess frankly, but to be perfectly honest, I still fail to see what's so utterly terribly broken with the current locked targets indicators? They're simple, easy to tell at a glance how far you are through which layer of hp, and god damn do we have alot of familiarity with them, it's still very much a change for the sake of change to me, we gain no new info or sudden great increase in usability.

Simple solution, as is so very VERY often the case, MAKE IT OPTIONAL! If people like it, find it easier to use they'll use it, if not they've not been impacted in any way. Frankly the cost of adding a drop down list to select the style you want in settings and leaving the current code in place cannot be anything other than minimal, so why not do it and make everyone happy, just for once?


To be a bit more positive, having the icon alongside the locked target highlight when you mouseover an active module is great, could we also get it to work in reverse too, so that when you mouseover the icon by the locked target you see which module that is?

Also, finally being able to seperate/move those damage/system notification spam boxes is great, the only reason I've left them on is that iirc turning them off also stops populating the log with entries, being able to seperate incoming/outgoing dmg and system notifies should greatly help the usability, if we could do the same for the log that'd be even better, and drag that portion of the ui kicking and screaming into the early noughties at least :)

Another side note, whilst you've been tinkering with alll these notifications etc, any chance you've been able to find and nuke the lovely bug that makes the log populate with blank/incomplete entries at times? Very annoying to have no idea whatsoever (other than noticing target hp bars not moving after a while) when somethings under my guns/sentries or I've derped and loaded wrong range ammo.
Arne Kusserow
Arlen Investments Inc.
#63 - 2012-11-14 17:29:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Arne Kusserow
Alice Katsuko wrote:
Split the target HP into three separate bars, arranged in a semicircle rather than a full circle around the target. Shield HP will be the right-most on the semi-circle, centered at the three o'clock position. Armor HP will be in the middle, centered at the twelve o'clock position. Hull HP will be the left-most, centered at the nine o'clock position. That will make the centers of the HP arcs align with the crosshairs, so that they are not merely ornamental but also are a reference point. I would make small indents at 25% and 75% levels for each HP arc as well.

Something like this: http://i.imgur.com/qOFb3.png

Apologies for the awful drawing, but best I can do using MSPaint. I don't know whether segmenting the HP bar itself will be desirable.

The damage will go from right to left, just like on the current HUD, and the whole thing will also flow from right to left. For additional clarity, maybe add 'SH,' 'AR,' and 'ST' above each bar or something, but I don't think it's really necessary.


I had the same idea, i was about to post it but now i see you already did.
+1 for that idea, the simplest and most intuitive I've seen so far
Wiu Ming
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2012-11-14 17:37:52 UTC
still kinda miffed about changing the targeting thingy (what's wrong with the current one?), but the dev post was pretty damn funny.
xxxak
Perkone
Caldari State
#65 - 2012-11-14 17:39:56 UTC
Rytell Tybat wrote:
Really love the work you guys are doing for the most part. Lots of nice improvements.

However...

"Restyled Targets and Brackets that contain more detail but are recognizable because now they look like your HUD"

Biggest problem with this is that the way the HUD looks is extremely dated. The HUD needs a complete overhaul. Copying it for the sake of recognizability is a step in the wrong direction. The previous version of the targets without the layering was much better. Simpler, cleaner and not as visually overpowering, while still communicating the important information at a glance.


This! Can you please make it translucent or light blue or something more "cool" than just white?

I <3 you.

[u]The nerfs to supercaps will cause more super pilots to join the largest alliances who can properly "support" their deployment, further concentrating firepower/wealth in EVE. The end result will be fewer "fun" fights, and will hurt EVE in the long run.[/u]
Alice Katsuko
Perkone
Caldari State
#66 - 2012-11-14 17:42:55 UTC
Also, just because one thing mirrors another, does not make it more intuitive. It will take all of two minutes for a player to figure out which is the shield layer, and which the hull for any reasonable HP display. The issue is not whether the locked target HP is intuitive to read so much as whether it is easy to read once you know what it represents.
OlRotGut
#67 - 2012-11-14 17:43:00 UTC
Wiu Ming wrote:
still kinda miffed about changing the targeting thingy (what's wrong with the current one?), but the dev post was pretty damn funny.



What's wrong with the current one?

1. It sucks, old, intrusive on the HUD, not sleek at all.


I approve of the new change.
xxxak
Perkone
Caldari State
#68 - 2012-11-14 17:43:23 UTC
CCP Masheen wrote:
Terh Rumnatarn wrote:
I know it is very hard to please all the players at the same time, and beside the target icon, all the other improvements are splendid.

But please CCP, reconsider this http://mirage-sg.com/hpbars.png.

I understand the need for an improved UI, more slick and rounder, which I fully agree on. But THAT icon, not only it looks bad, but it is very hard to read. On large scale (the shield/arm/hull for your own ship) it looks ok, but on a smaller scale doesn't fit with eve concept. That white/red marble chain around the ship icon is wrong.

For me the original concept (from the 1st blog) was beautiful and easy to read (even if it displeased a no. of players with left and right orientation problems). I would accept almost any other concept, that has some transparancy, gray/ not so gray style, etc. but not this.

Hope we won`t see this introduced in Tranq. It would make me very sad when pew pew.

For everything else, only thumbs up, very good useful improvements, and very intuitive. Thank you for EVE, and keep up the good work.


I get where you're coming from, I too had some affection for the previous design but having had a week with this one I'm learning to love it all the more and it has some clear advantages as it's much more accurate than anything we've had before.

We found from mass-testing that this layered design causes much less confusion and was loads more popular. We're now working on fine-tuning the design to make it easier to differentiate between layers. I hope that will help to mitigate any reservations you still have



Could we make the white/red bars prettier? They are sorta fug right now. :)

[u]The nerfs to supercaps will cause more super pilots to join the largest alliances who can properly "support" their deployment, further concentrating firepower/wealth in EVE. The end result will be fewer "fun" fights, and will hurt EVE in the long run.[/u]
Midnight Hope
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#69 - 2012-11-14 17:46:08 UTC
If there was a devblog that DEMANDED a video blog was this one. :(

I fear my imagination will translate the blog into something much more cooler than the actual features.

Pro tip: When discussing UI with your user always *show* them what they are getting.
Lyta Jhonson
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#70 - 2012-11-14 17:51:33 UTC
Three-sector target healthbar design in the previous blog was much better imho. Instead of making target healthbars copy of your own HUD it would be much better if player ship HUD was also updated to the 3 sector design instead of current three layers. Sector design is more compact, intuitive, aesthetically pleasing and, in case of your own ship HUD will allow additional feature of scaling the sectors according to relative values of shield armor and structure HPs (or EHPs).
Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
#71 - 2012-11-14 17:54:49 UTC
"Bastard : term of endearment "

Australian-English dictionary, best dictionary.

Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.
Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe
#72 - 2012-11-14 18:04:27 UTC
Tried it on Buckingham and my main issue is that in lag situations it is very hard to tell if you have selected one of your locked targets.
Tahna Rouspel
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#73 - 2012-11-14 18:04:54 UTC
Great stuff!

This is showing tremendous improvement on the last targeting system.
The ability to move damage notification is also absolutely awesome!
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#74 - 2012-11-14 18:06:55 UTC
and no... I was not the fox that got shot, stuffed, and taxidermy treatment if anyone was wondering.

Either way good blog.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Hoarr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#75 - 2012-11-14 18:07:45 UTC
I have to say that I agree with the objections to the new target hp bars. An intuitive design isn't necessarily the best. I like the point made above that people will be able to adjust quickly to any changes. The goal should be to make it easy to read, and I don't think that this design accomplishes that goal.

I also want to ask if it would be possible to see any additional information about the targets on the main screen. It would be really great if I could see target speed and transversal in addition to distance to target.


Please please please make the hp bars easy to read.
Crazy KSK
Tsunami Cartel
#76 - 2012-11-14 18:19:48 UTC
all in all good stuff the Reactive Armor Hardener still does not show the resists in the tool-tip though

Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#77 - 2012-11-14 19:18:05 UTC
Nice work.

BTW - while you are making the final tweaks on the UI for Retribution, can you please remove the transparency from the capacitor indicator and change the active color from dull yellow to something with a higher contrast - say like bright neon green?

And, please do not forget to test the new UI against *all* of the possible in-game backgrounds, esp. against bright nebulas and the sun.
Midnight Hope
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#78 - 2012-11-14 19:31:17 UTC
Will I be able to toggle the camera mode using a keyboard shortcut? Or do I have to navigate tiny menu options in the heat of battle?
CCP Sisyphus
C C P
C C P Alliance
#79 - 2012-11-14 19:52:18 UTC
Midnight Hope wrote:
Will I be able to toggle the camera mode using a keyboard shortcut? Or do I have to navigate tiny menu options in the heat of battle?


There is a keyboard shortcut (unassigned), I use the "C" key :)

Also - the hairlines work both ways - mouseover on module, and also on the icon next to the targetted symbol.

CCP Sisyphus | Team TriLambda | Team Klang | @CCP_Sisyphus
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2012-11-14 20:25:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
To be honest if the layered approach is needed I still would have preferred solid bars rather than the segmented ones in the hud with the clear 25% markers that the old "new" bars had. In fact if the ship hud was replaced with that as well both would look better in my opinion.