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What is the lure for lo and null?
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Silver Plated
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#41 - 2012-11-14 14:16:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Silver Plated
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
Matti Leijona wrote:


Nope, never lived in Null Sec, not once, not a member of ED, don't live in the Dronelands, never ever how sad I must be.


~Silver Plated

By the way I post on that alt, a cyno alt, because I like the name.


Silver Plated wrote:


P.S. Look at my industry guys KB. I've lost one ship in Null on him. I did lose a Maelstrom on another character the other day because I got dumb on a gate. Other than those two instances I haven't lost a ship outside of a fleet. Null Sec really is pretty damn safe.


Right so by my reckoning Ethereal Dawn, you live near solar and that yes?

So soon you're going to have the CFC right on your doorstep plus there's the whole hooha of the war between -A-/Solar and the Gypsy Wagon guys.

I'll wonder how safe you feel it is after a few weeks. Ultimately this highlights the risk of null sec: Everything is safe, right up until the moment it isn't, then you can lose everything.


Inconvenient but not unsafe. I have cap ships that take only a few jumps to be in a NPC station. Also my tablet has decided it hates Eve. I hope I didn't double post.
Generals4
#42 - 2012-11-14 14:33:45 UTC
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
Generals4 wrote:
Well i'll give a shot at making an unbiased pitch :

0.0: Are you tired to PVE/mine/haul/etc. for the sake of earning isks to be able to PVE/Mine/haul/etc. better to earn more isk, etc. Than join 0.0 and be part of something bigger. You can do all these things but for a greater purpose. (Your alliance's welfare)
Also interested in large scale PVP? Than 0.0 is definately for you. With huge battles between large entities occuring quite often you can be a part of epic battles.
However if you don't like bubbles, blobs and mandatory participation to certain activities you might want to rethink this. (or look closer at the alliance's adverts and what they demand from their members)



The reference to mandatory participation is a little bit outdated.

A lot of people, especially outside of null, think that people still issue CTAs and that sort of rubbish and raise corp taxes to 100% during ops and stuff. No-one in the CFC/HBC does this and we control half of nullsec. The CTA calling alliances are all relics of a bygone era mainly, or the last vestiges of Elite PvP WulfPAx alliances.

Other then that you are broadly right. The problem is though when you explain Null Sec to someone you should be using the word "home". There are very few alliances with an actual "home" in null, (best example is Goons and VFK) but it should be a place where people can go and invest time and effort into a place.



Firstly: CFC/HBC =/= all of null.
Secondly: that's why i added the, now underlined, part.

_-Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. _
Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#43 - 2012-11-14 14:34:50 UTC
Borascus wrote:
:words:


I literally have no idea what your point is.

Could you please re-post without rambling so I can form a counter argument if one is needed?


Silver Plated wrote:


Inconvenient but not unsafe. I have cap ships that take only a few jumps to be in a NPC station. Also my tablet has decided it hates Eve. I hope I didn't double post.


You didn't double post don't worry.

We'll see. CFC will have no-one to fight and they wont be setting anyone blue. Start preparing for a lot more roaming and gate camping etc in your area of space. Also just because you're skillful to avoid the risk 99% of the time doesn't mean it's not there.

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli
Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#44 - 2012-11-14 14:38:29 UTC
Generals4 wrote:
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:


The reference to mandatory participation is a little bit outdated.



Firstly: CFC/HBC =/= all of null.
Secondly: that's why i added the, now underlined, part.



Firstly: I never said it did, I said about half of null sov. If you ignore all the renters (who don't have to turn up to CTAs anyway) and you include the fact that the HBC and CFC have more members then anyone else I'd actually say most null sec players are actually CFC/HBC. Note: not all, just most.

Secondly: Why even say it at all if you're going to add that? I could say that about high sec on that logic "be prepared to turn up to compulsory mining ops (unless the corp doesn't have these).

The days of most alliances in null dictating how you play are over and thank god that they are.

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli
Dar Manic
Dirt Road Services
#45 - 2012-11-14 14:39:22 UTC
Admiralte Derezel wrote:
I guess theres quite a lot of snobs on the forum. Not overly in this thread but if you lurk the forums for any length of time it paints a bad picture of a lot of lo/null dwellers. If you do not live in null you are an inferior Eve player?
Terms such as;
carebear
noob
risk-averse
less intelligent (used in this thread)

If for instance you were a high-sec dweller, perhaps you just wanted to skill up and get some money before exploring the universe some more, this would put you off wouldnt it? Oh look they are using derogatory terms for me...these are exactly the types of guys I want to play Eve with.


They do the name calling because of the weakness of their arguments. It's not specific to Eve but some Eve players have it down to an art.

I just don't understand null sec players.

**Please note: **Anytime I use the phrase PvP in a post, I'm talking about shooting/combat/killing things/blowing things up. Thank you.
Generals4
#46 - 2012-11-14 14:40:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Generals4
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
Generals4 wrote:
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:


The reference to mandatory participation is a little bit outdated.



Firstly: CFC/HBC =/= all of null.
Secondly: that's why i added the, now underlined, part.



Firstly: I never said it did, I said about half of null sov. If you ignore all the renters (who don't have to turn up to CTAs anyway) and you include the fact that the HBC and CFC have more members then anyone else I'd actually say most null sec players are actually CFC/HBC. Note: not all, just most.

Secondly: Why even say it at all if you're going to add that? I could say that about high sec on that logic "be prepared to turn up to compulsory mining ops (unless the corp doesn't have these).

The days of most alliances in null dictating how you play are over and thank god that they are.


Because CTA's are pretty unique to Null sec and i'm willing to bet they're still very prominent among non CFC/HBC alliances. It's been some time since i played in null but i don't think all the entities changed their mentalities since than. I think you'll find more null entities with CTA's than high sec entities with mandatory mining ops

_-Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. _
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2012-11-14 14:56:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Ritsum wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
Ritsum wrote:
Meh Nerf High-sec all you want... It is still the place I will play since I don't enjoy socializing much and could not care any less about stupid blobs, gatecamps, CTA's and completely ******** people who think the game is just about Killboards and who has the biggest ship, such is the mindset of a low/null player from what I have seen.


See this is the type of person that should live in high sec - antisocial individuals who don't understand what EVE is about. Let these guys run level 4 missions and AFK mine to their hearts content if that's what they want to do.

Some of the more intelligent/resourceful people currently living in high sec should be incentivised to move to low/null sec but, other than CCP inventing new game mechanics, how would you go about that without nerfing HS in some way?



Btw this is the attitude I was talking about... Because I find it hard to talk to others and generally socialize with other people due to medical reasons I am treated as if I do not matter.

Also who says that these "more intelligent/resourceful people" want more of a incentive to move into low/null, have you ever considered that they may not enjoy pvp 'Ship vs Ship' and all that low/null sec business.

The incentive to move into low/null is there it's just that a lot of high sec players do not want it and CCP has seen this and catered to them a bit by making it a fair bit safer to fly. So why would you need to result in nerfing high sec? Just to spite those that like the game but do not like the ship pvp side of it?

If you cannot find the incentive to move down to low/null by now then it is not the place for you.


Don't come here crying that your anti-social personality it due to medical conditions in an attempts to make people feel sorry for you. You said "I don't enjoy socializing much and could not care any less about stupid blobs..." medical reasons or not, that is a ****** attitude but i wouldn't deprive you of that, which is why i said that HS is right for people like you - The people that play an MMO but are scared of interacting with others Straight

The point is, people that have no intention of playing the game to the fullest should not have such an impact on or achieve as much in the game.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#48 - 2012-11-14 14:58:33 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
The point is, people that have no intention of playing the game to the fullest should not have such an impact on the game.



And just who the hell are you to decide what it's "fullest" is?
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2012-11-14 15:08:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
The point is, people that have no intention of playing the game to the fullest should not have such an impact on the game.



And just who the hell are you to decide what it's "fullest" is?


what?

Do you understand what the word means? How can you experience a computer game to the fullest if you live in an area that doesn't contain all the game mechanics.

But again, i don't give a **** what people like this do, as long as it doesn't effect my game. How is a low sec miner supposed to make good money when the same ore can me mined in HS afk? How does the solo nul/lo sec explorer afford a plex when HS incursion runners drive the price of plex through the roof?

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#50 - 2012-11-14 15:17:36 UTC
Generals4 wrote:


Because CTA's are pretty unique to Null sec and i'm willing to bet they're still very prominent among non CFC/HBC alliances. It's been some time since i played in null but i don't think all the entities changed their mentalities since than. I think you'll find more null entities with CTA's than high sec entities with mandatory mining ops



I was in a high sec corp, they kept putting on "mandatory ops" which I had to attend.

I joined a null sec corp and nothing has been mandatory not once.

Go figure.


As I say most pilots in nullsec now are probably HBC/CFC pilots just due to sheer size of the coalitions. The era of CTAs and their ilk is in it's twilight stages imo.

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#51 - 2012-11-14 15:22:43 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
The point is, people that have no intention of playing the game to the fullest should not have such an impact on the game.



And just who the hell are you to decide what it's "fullest" is?


what?

Do you understand what the word means? How can you experience a computer game to the fullest if you live in an area that doesn't contain all the game mechanics.

But again, i don't give a **** what people like this do, as long as it doesn't effect my game. How is a low sec miner supposed to make good money when the same ore can me mined in HS afk? How does the solo nul/lo sec explorer afford a plex when HS incursion runners drive the price of plex through the roof?



No-one lives in an area with ALL mechanics, no-one.

Or did concorde and the navies move into low/null and I missed the memo? Did high sec suddenly spawn low sec/null ores?


Quite why people cry about other people doing their own thing in a sandbox is beyond me. "Mummy, mummy, make them play the same as me waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa."
Quinzel Nikulainen
Kokako Acquisitions
#52 - 2012-11-14 15:27:32 UTC
Nylith Empyreal wrote:
There is no lure, you either like that kind of environment or you don't. If you do like it, the lure is what goals you give yourself for dwelling there.


Words of wisdom.

Ex-Kaalakiota citizen. Ex-Hyasyoda citizen. CEO of KŌKAK, a Nugoeihuvi affiliate corporation.
Generals4
#53 - 2012-11-14 15:28:44 UTC
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
Generals4 wrote:


Because CTA's are pretty unique to Null sec and i'm willing to bet they're still very prominent among non CFC/HBC alliances. It's been some time since i played in null but i don't think all the entities changed their mentalities since than. I think you'll find more null entities with CTA's than high sec entities with mandatory mining ops



I was in a high sec corp, they kept putting on "mandatory ops" which I had to attend.

I joined a null sec corp and nothing has been mandatory not once.

Go figure.


As I say most pilots in nullsec now are probably HBC/CFC pilots just due to sheer size of the coalitions. The era of CTAs and their ilk is in it's twilight stages imo.


Well if CTA's are dying that's great, i hate being treated like some random employee in a game. I merely based my "pitch" on my personal experience and from my experience Null Sec was the least "laid back" part of EVE. (though i would like to note when i was in High sec i wasn't part of any corp but WH's and FW treated me much better than 0.0)

_-Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. _
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#54 - 2012-11-14 15:34:38 UTC
I'm always amused at the notion that there is a 'right' way to play EvE. People don't stay in High Sec just because they are stupid, risk-averse cowards. Many stay because they like what High Sec has to offer. Plenty of people enjoy PvE, and missioning in HS is just as viable as ratting and plexing in null. Not everyone enjoys PvP either, it doesn't matter where you are PvE ships are fodder for PvP fits, so why bother with gankers at all, and not everyone gets the rush from PvP that ccomes with the high risk venture of possibly relieving somone else of their ship, so would not have justification for the chance of losing theirs.

I've been in corps with a null presence for much of my time in EvE, but found that living in HS and just camping out at the POS occasionally was much more enjoyable for me than living full time in null; it might have been the lack of 0.0 presence that made me not enjoy it; I don't really know or care (my first corp was an exception, it was nice hanging with them even if the trip was harrowing) The last corp I was in that had a null presence was a very good corp and I enjoyed playing with those individuals, but alliance politics forced me to leave my favorite corp:BS member fees that didn't go to help anyone but tne brass, a ****** PvP policy and swiss cheese sov with a lackluster intel channel meaning you were likely to get jumped in our capital syste. and get screwed by the PvP policy.

Now I live in W-space away from alliance politics in an area no safer (less gate encounters, but less warning of hostiles; I once passed through a gank mob on a hole, only saved by them jumping out at the same time, masking my hole activation)
Borascus
#55 - 2012-11-14 15:42:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Borascus
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
Borascus wrote:
words


I literally have no idea what your point is.

Could you please re-post without rambling so I can form a counter argument if one is needed?




I've highlighted the parts with import to this thread.
Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#56 - 2012-11-14 16:19:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Inquisitor Kitchner
Generals4 wrote:


Well if CTA's are dying that's great, i hate being treated like some random employee in a game. I merely based my "pitch" on my personal experience and from my experience Null Sec was the least "laid back" part of EVE. (though i would like to note when i was in High sec i wasn't part of any corp but WH's and FW treated me much better than 0.0)



And that's cool. A lot of people will have a poor impression thanks to the backwards and asshatted attitudes of relics of the past. To anyone in that position I'd honestly recommend trying out a corp within the HBC/CFC. There will be the odd exceptions but most of them are really chilled. As long as you are contributing to the alliance in some way they don't care.

I couldn't care less if you never got any kills if you fuelled the entire jump bridge network for example.

Borascus wrote:


I've highlighted the parts with import to this thread.



Ahh so none of it. As I thought. Thank you.

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#57 - 2012-11-14 16:47:50 UTC
I like low and null because I get paid to go there and kill people.

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#58 - 2012-11-14 16:50:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Galaxy Pig
Rek Seven wrote:
Ritsum wrote:
Meh Nerf High-sec all you want... It is still the place I will play since I don't enjoy socializing much and could not care any less about stupid blobs, gatecamps, CTA's and completely ******** people who think the game is just about Killboards and who has the biggest ship, such is the mindset of a low/null player from what I have seen.


See this is the type of person that should live in high sec - antisocial individuals who don't understand what EVE is about. Let these guys run level 4 missions and AFK mine to their hearts content if that's what they want to do.



No. I will not leave them alone, and they may not mine or run missions in peace to their hearts' content. They are phytoplankton, their numbers must be thinned. They think they are the only group in EVE who should be without an enemy, they are wrong. I am their enemy.

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#59 - 2012-11-14 16:57:47 UTC
Galaxy Pig wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
Ritsum wrote:
Meh Nerf High-sec all you want... It is still the place I will play since I don't enjoy socializing much and could not care any less about stupid blobs, gatecamps, CTA's and completely ******** people who think the game is just about Killboards and who has the biggest ship, such is the mindset of a low/null player from what I have seen.


See this is the type of person that should live in high sec - antisocial individuals who don't understand what EVE is about. Let these guys run level 4 missions and AFK mine to their hearts content if that's what they want to do.



No. I will not leave them alone, and they may not mine or run missions in peace to their hearts' content. They are phytoplankton, their numbers must be thinned. They think they are the only group in EVE who should be without an enemy, they are wrong. I am their enemy.


You win EVE, period.
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#60 - 2012-11-14 17:07:11 UTC
Well then, I'll be on my way.

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com