EVE General Discussion

OK let me say it then:

For me the lure of null is that everything makes sense there.

When I lived in high I mined and manufactured but I wasn't really sure why, it make ISK, which was nice, but I only ever made what was most profitable.

Mining was boring, I'd just browse the web AFK.

I ninja'd a few dudes, that was the PVP, some of them got pretty pissed, there was no real reason to.

Null, by contrast, is amazing.

When you're in an alliance everything makes sense. I mine, PI, and manufacture to support the corp, we need more fuel blocks? I'm on it. Need more tackling rifters to fight our enemies? I'll make some.

And the PVP, it's everywhere, all the time, you gotta be smart and watchful. Yeah I live in a sea of blues and everyday there are neuts blowing people up deep in our space.

So for me the lure of null is that the game makes sense when you're there. Highsec, by contrast, is just a collection of mini-games.


Ps. Nerfing HIgh Sec is not about bashing noobs or the risk averse, it's about getting the old players who should have moved on to move on. The noobs and risk averse can stay forever, that's cool, they just shouldn't be getting rich for no risk.



Now I've said it after living in Null for 4 months does that satisfy you?

The guy is right, even if he turned out to still be sitting in high sec. Part of me wishes he was, because I'd love a guy in my corp who's attitude to doing what is to most people the "boring" logistics stuff is "Sure I'm on it" is amazing.

It is much better coming from someone that doesn't represent the post, I'll clarify as I half expected both posts to come under criticism, constructively:

It is more likely to be a troll post from someone that is days/weeks old, talking about the enjoyable null-sec pvp and the morally bent hi-sec "thrill seekers" that are "risk averse" when posting on an alt that has no visible ties to pvp, null-sec or any other topic that has just been described by him/her.

As for my time in null, yes enjoyable, time in hi-sec: clearly less to do. The difference between the two is the willingness to sit with a bunch of people playing a game whereby the goal is to blow up other ships, or whether its a time for recapitulation to prepare for the next period of time blowing up other ships.

Arguably the real reason null-sec supporters are pointing at hi-sec is to incite social division, socially divisive comments in this respect are closer to troll posts than perhaps discussing the motivations behind such posts.

Headhunting can easily be carried out from null (using killboard statistics, or jita-alt market monitoring)whereas its easier still looking for skilled pilots in hi-sec; the ones that are willing to adhere to "expose all api's", mandatory online times and blatant disregard for offline responsibilities would be the most likely to join a null-sec corporation whimsically and subsequently be the most likely to switch sides on a dime.

Patience is a virtue.

If you have not tried it then your opinion is not from personal experience. I have a different experience from null and not once have I heard anyone talk about their personal killboard - i've seen kills posted and good on them. I have never had anyone say anything rude to anyone else regarding their fits, in fact it has been quite the opposite where people help with your fits.

So basically you have formed an opinion of people you do not know is what it sounds like.

I live in high sec due to convenience around my playing availability/patterns. It's nice to be able to relax when playing. I have another account for when I want to raise hell/am not weary and just looking for a pinyata to hit.


Plus the lack of politics and general other bullshit is a significant plus.

Sticks simply make people quit, what you need are carrots, however those with a mind to live in low/null will go there eventually.

Frankly I've yet to see a compelling reason to get more people out there that is not a (very) thinly veiled "we want more scrubs and carebears to shoot, force them out there!"

Constructive and reasonable posts always win my respect even if I disagree with them.

Usually I would agree with you, I hate it when alts are claiming to have "years of pvp experience" or whatever. The main reason is if you feel your argument needs to be backed up with your years of experience, do so in such a way that shows that. However in the case of this poster he did not make any grandiose claims at all. No-where did he say how long he's been in null sec, neither did he say anything along the lines of "Yes my VAST EXPERIENCE in null sec has taught me that...".

To me if a 3 day old newbie finds null sec enjoyable thats just as valid as a 8 month old character or a 12 month old bitter vet. Enjoying something doesn't take experience.

On the other hand if he rattled off a bunch of stuff about mechanics of the game or his own long term experiences from an alt yes I would agree with you.



Why though?

Why can't you play with a group of people shooting ships and then, in between the PvP play with the same group of people in the system that is your "home" to make money for the next round.

it isn't a question of willingness, it's a question of logic. I can make nearly as much money in High Sec as I can do in null but with 0 risk. If I just wanted to pick the logical option I'd just go to high sec to make my money and then to Null to PvP. Instead I actually rat in Null because I feel I should, though if I was told to go run level 4s in High sec I easily could do. If I get myself a maurderer and some +4/+5 implants it would probably earn me nearly as much money as ratting in null with the added bonus of faster skill training (i dont use implants in null).



No.

This is a conspiracy put out by high sec carebears who frequently comment on how they think null should be fixed (LOL remove local!) yet for some reason think that High Sec should be nerf free.

The fact is that there is an imbalance between risk and reward, whether you increase reward in null or decrease it in high sec the result will be the same: High sec people have to work for longer/harder to get the same thing they did before.

Once this is acknowledged by these High Seccers the join becomes clear: Do you buff Null rewards and cause massive inflation across the board and yet still pay more? Or do you nerf high income and avoid the inflation but still pay more? The latter gives you the option of moving into low or null, the former will lock you out. Either way though you'd have to work ahrder for what you want.



I literally have no idea what your point is here, that people joining high sec corps are more loyal?

I'd disagree. Genuine members of null sec corporations are some of the most loyal people I've ever seen. Even excluding Dreddit and GoonWaffe, as they recruit from an outside community, most genuine members of null sec corps generally only move when their corp/alliance is failcascading. There's no really strong reason to band together in high sec, nor is it dangerous to be corpless (unlike null where it's very dangerous). Sure you get spies, but thats only because you're worth spying on, whereas high sec corps aren't.

Says the guy who clearly has never lived in null sec.

Listen random alt scrub: If you want to try living in null sec for a bit let me know and I'll arrange it. After a month if you still think it's safer then I'll concede your point.

P.S. Look at my industry guys KB. I've lost one ship in Null on him. I did lose a Maelstrom on another character the other day because I got dumb on a gate. Other than those two instances I haven't lost a ship outside of a fleet. Null Sec really is pretty damn safe.

I guess theres quite a lot of snobs on the forum. Not overly in this thread but if you lurk the forums for any length of time it paints a bad picture of a lot of lo/null dwellers. If you do not live in null you are an inferior Eve player?
Terms such as;
carebear
noob
risk-averse
less intelligent (used in this thread)

If for instance you were a high-sec dweller, perhaps you just wanted to skill up and get some money before exploring the universe some more, this would put you off wouldnt it? Oh look they are using derogatory terms for me...these are exactly the types of guys I want to play Eve with.

The incorrect belief is that "we" want them to join us. I personally don't care either way, i'm not one of those people who thinks null sec is dead or some sea of blue (if it were sa sea of blues, i'd still be "swimming" in Tribute rather than the waters of NPC Delve LOL).

It must be some carebear Ego thing, to believe that others actually care about you personally, rather than understanding the idea that those us who belive High Sec income needs looking at are simply worried about the state of the whole game.

I pretty much "live" off null anomalies and incursions, yet I did not oppose modification to those things because the gushing isk faucets those things had were screwing up the game in palpable ways. CCP did the right thing in modifying them (it is now MUCH easier to get into an incursion fleet now that all the fair weather isk farmers are gone lol), not just for me, but for the GAME. Not gonna lie though, I enjoyed the isk while it lasted lol.

But I digress. High sec people, stay where yo want to, play as you want to, cling to your narrow interests for dear life if you want to. That's not going to stop us players of the full game from advocating for the real spirit of EVE.

If a dude saying a thing on a forum can stop a Guy from exploring the universe, said Guy wasn't meant to explore the universe in the 1st place.