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Rebalance Clone Prices

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James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#101 - 2012-11-14 01:32:06 UTC
Clone costs do need to be rebalanced, but there also do need to be some more isk sinks in the game. Frankly the game could use a little deflation at this point.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#102 - 2012-11-14 01:40:44 UTC
You get three character slots per account.

If your the fear of replacing your clone is keeping you out of PvP, it's your game that's out of balance. Not the price of cloning.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#103 - 2012-11-14 01:42:49 UTC
Insurance ISK injected into the game > clone upgrade costs ISK removed from the game

So like I said, if you remove both, you will wind up with a lower amount, thus helping keep inflation at bay. Not to mention the benifit of far more combat action and all those wonderful transaction costs (more ISK removed) associated with them.

It is a win-win solution.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#104 - 2012-11-14 01:48:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Il Feytid
Malphilos wrote:
You get three character slots per account.

If your the fear of replacing your clone is keeping you out of PvP, it's your game that's out of balance. Not the price of cloning.

I think this argument is nothing short of pants on head ********. There is a score of issues with this method. Corp member inflation (artificially inflating war dec costs), retraining core skills, juggling assets, constantly transferring ISK back and forth, unnessisary corp management on knowing who's alts are who's. That is just to name a few.
Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#105 - 2012-11-14 01:50:43 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Malphilos wrote:
You get three character slots per account.

If your the fear of replacing your clone is keeping you out of PvP, it's your game that's out of balance. Not the price of cloning.

I think this argument is nothing short of pants on head ********. There is a score of issues with this method. Corp member inflation (artistically inflating war dec costs), retraining core skills, juggling assets, constantly transferring ISK back and forth, unnessisary corp management on knowing who's alts are who's. That is just to name a few.


Those whines are about alts.

Start a new thread.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#106 - 2012-11-14 01:52:54 UTC
Malphilos wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Malphilos wrote:
You get three character slots per account.

If your the fear of replacing your clone is keeping you out of PvP, it's your game that's out of balance. Not the price of cloning.

I think this argument is nothing short of pants on head ********. There is a score of issues with this method. Corp member inflation (artistically inflating war dec costs), retraining core skills, juggling assets, constantly transferring ISK back and forth, unnessisary corp management on knowing who's alts are who's. That is just to name a few.


Those whines are about alts.

Start a new thread.

Your solution is creating alts. So my post is completely relevant to this thread. Deal with it.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#107 - 2012-11-14 01:56:30 UTC
On one hand, "create and alt" is not a viable argument for anything - no one should ever HAVE to create an alt to solve a problem. Do it solo, or join a corp and get some help. Having more than one character for some people is tricky to manage, not to mention using the character slots available for one account means ceasing skill training on your main, which is wasteful IMO.

On the other hand... there is nothing wrong with cloning mechanics or cost.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#108 - 2012-11-14 01:58:57 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Malphilos wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Malphilos wrote:
You get three character slots per account.

If your the fear of replacing your clone is keeping you out of PvP, it's your game that's out of balance. Not the price of cloning.

I think this argument is nothing short of pants on head ********. There is a score of issues with this method. Corp member inflation (artistically inflating war dec costs), retraining core skills, juggling assets, constantly transferring ISK back and forth, unnessisary corp management on knowing who's alts are who's. That is just to name a few.


Those whines are about alts.

Start a new thread.

Your solution is creating alts. So my post is completely relevant to this thread. Deal with it.


Uh, the mechanism for alts already exists. Learn to cope.

Someone said earlier that they didn't want to learn PvP on their expensive clone. The obvious and present solution is obvious and present. There is no problem.

Afraid to risk your super nifty clone learning from the ground up? Ok, start an alt.

Already used up all your slots and are afraid to risk any of them? Not sure what to tell you. Ooops?
Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#109 - 2012-11-14 02:01:41 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Having more than one character for some people is tricky to manage, not to mention using the character slots available for one account means ceasing skill training on your main, which is wasteful IMO.


Hey... risk/reward, huh?

But I can see this might give AR min/max types the gibbering fits.

You might lose. Deal.
octahexx Charante
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#110 - 2012-11-14 02:09:39 UTC
high sp isnt = alot of isk,i dont see any connection,everyone isnt a carebear,people go nuts when pvp is nerfed in someway but when someone suggest how to increase pew pew the same ppl whine about that.
i think it should atleast be reviewed by CCP since the pricing was set a long time ago,its not just ships that need to get rebalance once in a while,alot of titan pilots with sp just got their endgame nerfed so if this gets them into subcap fights im all for it.
Jake Rivers
New Planetary Order
#111 - 2012-11-14 04:39:20 UTC
Jurias wrote:
Jake Rivers wrote:



What amazing implants does a 7 month old character have to be worried about a 65 million ISK clone?

I am going to assume you are not posting on your main due to the fact that you just bought it off the character bazaar, if you can afford to buy a character with that much skill points, then you can afford to pay for your medical clones.


This char is much older than that actually, 7 years and 3 months to be a little more exact. The time you quoted is the time it has been a member of this corporation. I've never bought or sold a character. I have played since the start of EVE and been a loyal subscriber throughout thanks.


Ah sorry, I missed your 5+ years career in a NPC corporation.

So did you actually play eve all this time, or just work on your skill plan?

Seriously, whether you just stayed in high sec for all these years, or dared to venture out into low/null space, you would certainly have amassed a fortune, or at the very least have kept some type of steady income going, if you didn't you are basically not playing the game. Logging in every so often to queue up skills does not equal playing the game.

If you want to pvp or go beyond the 'safe' havens of high sec, you are going to have to learn to put your resources at risk.

There is more at stake than a simple med clone when you dare to venture beyond safe sec.

The motto is, only fly what you can afford to loose.

If you can't even afford your med clone, then don't fly.

Senex Legio
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#112 - 2012-11-14 04:52:47 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
I think that if they're terrible at or just hate making isk people should be penalised by having to fly cheap ships, not penalised by being unable to pvp because they'll lose so many sp because they cannot afford a clone

and i don't think people should have to pvp on a noob alt if they're poor


Who are all these 100 million skill point broke-asses?

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Esruc 'Sadim
Lazaretto
#113 - 2012-11-14 05:05:12 UTC
jump clone

Insert something witty and clever here
Alara IonStorm
#114 - 2012-11-14 05:06:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Jake Rivers wrote:

If you want to pvp or go beyond the 'safe' havens of high sec, you are going to have to learn to put your resources at risk.

That would be your ship, modules, cargo and implants all of which the OP has no problem risking.
Jake Rivers wrote:

The motto is, only fly what you can afford to loose.

Kinda falls apart when you are not an ISK grinder and only fly cheap stuff. That person is flying what they can afford to lose but have an extra noose around their neck.
Jake Rivers wrote:

If you can't even afford your med clone, then don't fly.

And there it is. If you can not afford a med clone then help contribute to the entire game stagnating. Sorry I would rather see more cheap fleet fun in the game then empty systems.

That is why Pods should be cheap to buy and switchable at med stations so people can switch implants on the fly and get out there on demand.

Arbitrary costs and time limits should not interfere with the only fly what you can afford to lose model. You should be able to switch quickly between 1bil Strat cruisers, 300 mil HAC's and 5Mil T1 Frigates quick and easy only risking what you think is acceptable in exchange for performance, no silly extra costs for this and that.
Pingu Arareb
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#115 - 2012-11-14 05:12:03 UTC
sell char in char bazaar for 50 bil and use isk to fund future clone costs Smile
Alara IonStorm
#116 - 2012-11-14 05:14:10 UTC
Pingu Arareb wrote:
sell char in char bazaar for 50 bil and use isk to fund future clone costs Smile

Yes but then you would not have your character. What would be the point of playing EVE with a knock off character. That wouldn't be fun at all.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#117 - 2012-11-14 11:08:10 UTC
Malphilos wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Malphilos wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Malphilos wrote:
You get three character slots per account.

If your the fear of replacing your clone is keeping you out of PvP, it's your game that's out of balance. Not the price of cloning.

I think this argument is nothing short of pants on head ********. There is a score of issues with this method. Corp member inflation (artistically inflating war dec costs), retraining core skills, juggling assets, constantly transferring ISK back and forth, unnessisary corp management on knowing who's alts are who's. That is just to name a few.


Those whines are about alts.

Start a new thread.

Your solution is creating alts. So my post is completely relevant to this thread. Deal with it.


Uh, the mechanism for alts already exists. Learn to cope.

Someone said earlier that they didn't want to learn PvP on their expensive clone. The obvious and present solution is obvious and present. There is no problem.

Afraid to risk your super nifty clone learning from the ground up? Ok, start an alt.

Already used up all your slots and are afraid to risk any of them? Not sure what to tell you. Ooops?

All my clones are expensive, even without implants. That is what you don't get. You keep thinking this is about clones with implants and it is not. I don't care about the guy who is afraid to risk his learning implants or some high grade snake set. What I am talking about is the base cost of the clone. Also CCP said a few years ago that alts was something they wish they could have done differently, but the cat is out of the bag. So they did not know how to put it back.

But you go on and keep straw-manning it up about clones with expensive implants and ignore the core argument about removing the clone upgrade costs.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#118 - 2012-11-14 11:09:52 UTC
Esruc 'Sadim wrote:
jump clone

You are missing the point entirely.
Jurias
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#119 - 2012-11-14 11:19:17 UTC
Some interesting points in this thread (and sadly some people who fail to understand the point also). I'm glad that this has been raised at a CSM meeting and nobody disagreed that a few tweaks need to be made to the clone system (not just the price either) - I was not aware of this, but it seems CSM and CCP acknowledge the issue once again.

I know from speaking to people that this issue irritates a lot of old timers, who end up using alts for cheap PVP.
- Even if they are too proud to post in a thread like this; which could be perceived as space poor bittervets whining about ISK sinks by those who fail to understand the issue - which it isn't.

Sound like this will get sorted (again) at some point.
Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#120 - 2012-11-14 12:15:47 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
All my clones are expensive, even without implants. That is what you don't get. You keep thinking this is about clones with implants and it is not. I don't care about the guy who is afraid to risk his learning implants or some high grade snake set. What I am talking about is the base cost of the clone. Also CCP said a few years ago that alts was something they wish they could have done differently, but the cat is out of the bag. So they did not know how to put it back.

But you go on and keep straw-manning it up about clones with expensive implants and ignore the core argument about removing the clone upgrade costs.


"Straw-manning"?

Ok, points for the irony, but point out one spot where I mentioned implants or c'mon back and confess to being FoS. Blink

Don't fly what you can't afford to lose, including your clone. If you painted yourself into a corner all I can say is: "Oops".

It's another plea for a warm and fuzzy blanket in the cold harsh universe.