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Why can't bounties be cut in all the server to help with inflation?
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#81 - 2012-11-13 20:34:16 UTC
fukier wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Ager Agemo wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Remove bounties from mission rats, keep mission rewards at the same level. That way mission runners will still have isk for LP turn in & it will actually give them a reason to loot & salvage.


come to think of it, this is acceptable too, but the npc ships themselves need some kind of reward aside from just salvage, maybe a chance to drop faction items? albeit extremely low? (at the same time lowering a bit the price of some faction modules that are not even better than their t2 counterparts)


They already drop a bunch of modules & ammo to loot. As it stands, highsec mission runners don't loot & salvage because they make more isk/hour from the bounties. Remove the bounties from missions & it helps inflation & gives them a reason to loot & salvage again. It would help make both lowsec & nullsec more attractive places to grind isk.



so what remove bounties then add more tags and better rewards for finishing missions?

at that point people will just join the blue balls and do annoms for thier isk...

Even for those that remain I'm not seeing anyone concerned with efficiency looting and salvaging even if bounties are removed. LP be the absolute chief earner and as such if you care about isk/hour you aren't looting because that doesn't earn you LP. At best it's a thing you do to start out and may keep doing till you do the math.

This is especially true now that the meta 3/4 mod prices have tanked so spectacularly since the meta 0 loot nerf.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#82 - 2012-11-13 20:45:07 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:


I've lived in 0.0 and mined for days without a non-blue showing up in system. Then a non-blue would show up, we'd doc up or station up, then clone jump to high sec. The non-blue would get tired of not having targets and move on. Then we'd clone jump back to 0.0 and resume out very safe mining.


I bolded the part that is important. In high sec, you never ever have to do any such thing, especially if in an npc corp.

Which is why High Sec shouldn't be all that profitable, the real game (the game of EVE, a game about player conflcit) is played outside high sec, the game that high sec residents don't want to participate in.

I'm fine with yall not participating, so long as you know your place.


Quote:

High sec is not PVP centric. Sure, you can get blown up anywhere, but that is not too frequent in high sec.

When it starts becoming too frequent in high sec, and carebears start to drop the game, CCP comes in with a game change to ensure the carebears keep playing.


Frequency doesn't matter, possibility does. it's possible to be kill anywhere outside of a station.

EVe is a pvp game , as evidenced by the fact that (with the exception of the starter systems), people can shoot you anywhere, any time. This is what the high sec crowd hates, which is why i ask, "why play EVE".


Quote:

"Full game". What the heck you talking about?

If you haven't invented, or constructed a super cap, or sat in a rorq compressing ore, or played the market, or ran scams in Jita local, or did the standings grind so that you could sign up with research agents.... then you haven't played "the full game".


That's dumb, by that definition 99.999 # of players and most DEVs haven't either lol.

The point is I play all over EVE, high, low, null. WHs, fanfest (lol), all of it, unlike the scared to death of loosing pixels high sec dweller.

Though I sometimes play in high sec, I'm not OF high sec. Yesterday a dude jumped into my mission and tried to bait me (i just warped off and did another mission I had waiting). If i were OF high sec like some of you people, i would have immediately ran to the forums and asked for a nerf lol.


Quote:


Try playing the penny wars in a trade hub and tell me that isn't conflict.

Try running missions high sec to be scanned down and have the objective stolen and tell me that isn't conflict.

Try starting a corp,only to be hit by a long series of war decs that are designed to blackmail you, stop you from recruiting, or keep you out of the 'roid belts that the other high sec mining corps want to strip mine and tell me that isn't conflict.


been there, done that.

Quote:

Maybe living in high sec is a bad choice.... but guess what. IT IS MY CHOICE TO MAKE, not yours.

You play the game the way you want to play it. Go get out blobbed by the other players that want to PVP, or have a txt-war in local to see which camped in fleet can post the most text-based dork images in local chat window.

If you try to force me to play the game the way you want me to play it, I will simply quit playing the game. I know, I've seen me do it.


Yes it is your choice and a bad one. I can't force anyone to do anything( I don't work for CCP) and wouldn't if I could (because I'd never make a game people like you wanted to play lol). Simply stating what's obvious, "high sec only" players (like people everywhere it seems, in and out of game) are too focused on their own narrow interests to see the big picture, to think of what this game is and what's best for it and us as a whole, and all to willing to use illogical arguments to keep what's "theirs".

Nothing i can do to stop them, but I enjoy at least pointing it out.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#83 - 2012-11-13 20:48:45 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
fukier wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Ager Agemo wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Remove bounties from mission rats, keep mission rewards at the same level. That way mission runners will still have isk for LP turn in & it will actually give them a reason to loot & salvage.


come to think of it, this is acceptable too, but the npc ships themselves need some kind of reward aside from just salvage, maybe a chance to drop faction items? albeit extremely low? (at the same time lowering a bit the price of some faction modules that are not even better than their t2 counterparts)


They already drop a bunch of modules & ammo to loot. As it stands, highsec mission runners don't loot & salvage because they make more isk/hour from the bounties. Remove the bounties from missions & it helps inflation & gives them a reason to loot & salvage again. It would help make both lowsec & nullsec more attractive places to grind isk.



so what remove bounties then add more tags and better rewards for finishing missions?

at that point people will just join the blue balls and do annoms for thier isk...

Even for those that remain I'm not seeing anyone concerned with efficiency looting and salvaging even if bounties are removed. LP be the absolute chief earner and as such if you care about isk/hour you aren't looting because that doesn't earn you LP. At best it's a thing you do to start out and may keep doing till you do the math.

This is especially true now that the meta 3/4 mod prices have tanked so spectacularly since the meta 0 loot nerf.


LP isn't an isk faucet & is part of another sink.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#84 - 2012-11-13 21:37:16 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:


I've lived in 0.0 and mined for days without a non-blue showing up in system. Then a non-blue would show up, we'd doc up or station up, then clone jump to high sec. The non-blue would get tired of not having targets and move on. Then we'd clone jump back to 0.0 and resume out very safe mining.


I bolded the part that is important. In high sec, you never ever have to do any such thing, especially if in an npc corp.

Which is why High Sec shouldn't be all that profitable, the real game (the game of EVE, a game about player conflcit) is played outside high sec, the game that high sec residents don't want to participate in.

I'm fine with yall not participating, so long as you know your place.



The real EVE is a sand box with many different areas where different people can enjoy playing the game with different play styles.

High Sec people didn't make 0.0 as low profit as high sec. The 0.0 people that make 0.0 so safe that they can mine ABCs all day and night, have made 0.0 as low profit as high sec. The 0.0 people that made 0.0 as safe as high sec forced CCP to limit anoms in 0.0.

0.0 players are what made 0.0 as low profit as high sec.



Jenn aSide wrote:

Yes it is your choice and a bad one.


Do you even realize that this statement is logically equivalent to you arguing that my choice of favorite color is a bad one?
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2012-11-13 21:43:15 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
LP isn't an isk faucet & is part of another sink.

Never said it was a faucet, I was just addressing the idea that removing bounties would give greater incentive to loot and salvage.
Devon Krah'tor
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#86 - 2012-11-14 00:31:43 UTC
Increase taxes in hisec to pay for Concord. makes sense right?

just like real life?

to all hard core hiseccers, I'm sorry but you should be making the lowest income in the game. You all know it, you just don't want to admit it publicly. Its inherently unfair that you recieve max protection, and pay nothing for it.

Its unfair

Just because you like playing eve on single player mode doesn't mean it isn't.

hisec is fine, just pay the price that's all.
Greater.Insight.Skill.Knowledge
Smiknight
Smiknight Corporation
#87 - 2012-11-14 01:47:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Smiknight
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Remove bounties from mission rats, keep mission rewards at the same level. That way mission runners will still have isk for LP turn in & it will actually give them a reason to loot & salvage.


Yes, this. Because you can never have too many metal scraps from looting and salvaging. Roll

Unfair? This is Eve, where PvP stands for Player vs People, and you want to cry about unfair? Forgive me for saying, but suck it up, the rest of us have to. And as it stands, we are not living in station sized vaults of isk here, going for a swim like Scrooge McDuck. Clean out your headgear and put the kool-aid down, hisec is far from the land of milk and honey.
A reward devoid of risk is no reward at all, but is instead a handout.
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#88 - 2012-11-14 03:30:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuri Kinnes
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Kara Vix wrote:
Everyone wants to nerf the other guys activities while buffing their own.


Highsec activities are far too profitable for the little risk attached.

abloobloobloo?

I swear to khoresh.

Think about it.

They (CCP) nerf Hi-sec income (everything) across the board 50%, you'll be back in two weeks saying it's *still* too profitable...

CCP *has* nerfed mission income several times (bounty reduction, mission reward reduction, Large turret drop rate, meta -0-) that I can remember and it's *STILL* "too profitable" - all in the last few years.

People will *still* move their money making to hi-sec because you can't be bothered in hi-sec (except within certain known manners) which makes it more convenient and dependable for making isk. Right up until hi-sec pays about 15 - 25% of what it does now (maybe as high as 50%, just guessing here).

Players who *want* to be in low/null - find their way there (eventually).
Jenn aSide wrote:
Which is why High Sec shouldn't be all that profitable, the real game (the game of EVE, a game about player conflcit) is played outside high sec, the game that high sec residents don't want to participate in.

Get over yourself.

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
BoSau Hotim
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
#89 - 2012-11-14 03:34:16 UTC
leave mai bounties alone..

isk faucet... the same as the fabled money tree....

I'm not a carebear... I'm a SPACE BARBIE!  Now... where's Ken?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#90 - 2012-11-14 04:44:48 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Remove bounties from mission rats, keep mission rewards at the same level. That way mission runners will still have isk for LP turn in & it will actually give them a reason to loot & salvage.

Mission rats, and mission rats only.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Smiknight
Smiknight Corporation
#91 - 2012-11-14 06:33:31 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Remove bounties from mission rats, keep mission rewards at the same level. That way mission runners will still have isk for LP turn in & it will actually give them a reason to loot & salvage.

Mission rats, and mission rats only.


Nope. All or nothing.
A reward devoid of risk is no reward at all, but is instead a handout.
BoSau Hotim
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
#92 - 2012-11-14 06:50:30 UTC
Smiknight wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Remove bounties from mission rats, keep mission rewards at the same level. That way mission runners will still have isk for LP turn in & it will actually give them a reason to loot & salvage.

Mission rats, and mission rats only.


Nope. All or nothing.



All - cost $0
nothing- cost $0

beleiving that nerfing bounties will stop inflation? priceless

I'm not a carebear... I'm a SPACE BARBIE!  Now... where's Ken?
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#93 - 2012-11-14 13:29:36 UTC
Asuri Kinnes wrote:

Jenn aSide wrote:
Which is why High Sec shouldn't be all that profitable, the real game (the game of EVE, a game about player conflcit) is played outside high sec, the game that high sec residents don't want to participate in.

Get over yourself.


No, i am your master, deal with it.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#94 - 2012-11-14 13:40:49 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:


The real EVE is a sand box with many different areas where different people can enjoy playing the game with different play styles.


And even though you CAN do different "play styles" (btw "play style" is the stupideest term in all of EVE), like in real life, EVe has an underlying reality that trumps all ideology aka play styles.

As long as you accept that underlying reality of what EVE is, there is no problem. The underlying realities of EVE are conflict and mayhem, if yo don't like or can't stand 1 or both of those, yo're playing the wrong game.

And yet many a high sec dweller rebels against the underlying reality of a game no one is forcing them to play. Rather than take the rational route of laying down the game for something better, they come to these forums and DEMAND modification to the game (regardless of the spirit of the game) for their (short sighted) comfort.


[quote]
High Sec people didn't make 0.0 as low profit as high sec. The 0.0 people that make 0.0 so safe that they can mine ABCs all day and night, have made 0.0 as low profit as high sec. The 0.0 people that made 0.0 as safe as high sec forced CCP to limit anoms in 0.0.

0.0 players are what made 0.0 as low profit as high sec.


So, null sec people made incursions with pay outs almost the same (not counting LP) as what you can get in upgrade null sec?

Man, I never knew that, all null sec people are DEVS. Wow, I should get my CCP paycheck any time now, I didn't evne know I was a DEV lol.

But seriously, thats a tired old fallacy, the idea that null sec is what it is because null sec residents somehow messed it up. Null sec is fine (sov sucks but it always has), the people claiming 0.0 residents messed it up are simply lookiing to pin their space pixel cowardice on someone else.

Null sec is SUPPOSED to be hostile space that's not easd yot get into or live in, if you don't have enough (in game) sack to go there and TAKE what you want, don't blame the people who DO have the cosmic cojones to do so.


[quote]
Do you even realize that this statement is logically equivalent to you arguing that my choice of favorite color is a bad one?


Being a high sec person I'm sure you favorite color is some form of Pink and yea, that's a pretty crappy choice....
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#95 - 2012-11-14 17:54:01 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

And yet many a high sec dweller rebels against the underlying reality of a game no one is forcing them to play. Rather than take the rational route of laying down the game for something better, they come to these forums and DEMAND modification to the game (regardless of the spirit of the game) for their (short sighted) comfort.


I don't recall having seen 1/100 of the hi seccers DEMANDS to change the game vs how many null seccers are constantly making.


Quote:

So, null sec people made incursions with pay outs almost the same (not counting LP) as what you can get in upgrade null sec?


Blue balls = low conflict = higher safety => high sec alike profit.

The fact it's your alliance and not Concord making it the equivalent of hi sec does not change the unavoidable destiny to make payouts as low as hi sec.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#96 - 2012-11-14 17:58:37 UTC
Ager Agemo wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Remove bounties from mission rats, keep mission rewards at the same level. That way mission runners will still have isk for LP turn in & it will actually give them a reason to loot & salvage.


come to think of it, this is acceptable too, but the npc ships themselves need some kind of reward aside from just salvage, maybe a chance to drop faction items? albeit extremely low? (at the same time lowering a bit the price of some faction modules that are not even better than their t2 counterparts)

and a just slightly increase on the rewards from the agent, i m thinking of something like

lvl 1 = 500 k isk and 500 lp
lvl 2 = 1 m isk and 1000 lp
lvl 3 = 2 m isk and 2000 lp
lvl 4 = 5 m isk and 4000 lp
lvl 5 = 10 m isk and 1000 lp


except then mission rewards are effectively cut in half. and thus, dead profession.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#97 - 2012-11-14 18:42:54 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
I don't recall having seen 1/100 of the hi seccers DEMANDS to change the game vs how many null seccers are constantly making.

Pretty sure people who are in nullsec are more likely to be invested in the game than joe random hisec guy, and as such will spend more time thinking about what needs to be done to improve the gameplay itself.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#98 - 2012-11-14 18:57:19 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

And yet many a high sec dweller rebels against the underlying reality of a game no one is forcing them to play. Rather than take the rational route of laying down the game for something better, they come to these forums and DEMAND modification to the game (regardless of the spirit of the game) for their (short sighted) comfort.


I don't recall having seen 1/100 of the hi seccers DEMANDS to change the game vs how many null seccers are constantly making.


Then you aren't looking. As in real life politics (where people ignore the faults of their preferred candidates but concntrate on the faults of the opponent) you see only that which you agree with.

I see a lot of "EVE would get so many more subs if" type posts (as an example), and you can go back through the last 2 months of postings and see thread after thread about ganking, miner bumping, griefing ect ect ect.

The other mistake your making is thinking these forums are popular the VAST majority of eve players will never even look at these forums,let alone post here. You are looking at maybe a few dozen to a couple hunderd null sec or high sec players posting here. What you see here is simply the most vocal parts of the community.

Quote:

Quote:

So, null sec people made incursions with pay outs almost the same (not counting LP) as what you can get in upgrade null sec?


Blue balls = low conflict = higher safety => high sec alike profit.

The fact it's your alliance and not Concord making it the equivalent of hi sec does not change the unavoidable destiny to make payouts as low as hi sec.


Evidence that you don't understand what is being discussed. I rat in null with a mach and run in incursion fleets in empire with a make. With no disruptions like neutrals coming through, the null sec mach gets 35 to 40 mil per "wallet tick" (105 to 120 mil per hour) as opposed to the 90 to 100 mil I make doing incursions which are almost never disrupted.

that's the point, as much as I love and will continue doing this high sec incursions with some great guys in the communities I fly with, and honest and unselfish evaluation of the way of things says that just ain't right at all, my Alliance had to take major pains to upgrade my ratting system, and to defend it, where as the incursion FC just has to post "HQ fleet starting, guys X up" and make sure the logistics guys are awake and no one is war-decced lol, all under the protection of CONCORD.

*not advocating further incursion nerfs just point out a serious imbalance*
Super Stallion
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#99 - 2012-11-14 19:23:15 UTC
Typhis Deterious wrote:
You have the choice to do them and make the same money as carebears. You CHOOSE not to do them just as they CHOOSE to do them.

It's all choice and is not like you are being excluded. SO the idea of cutting bounties on NPCs only affects some, but not those who do no pve.

Tell me again how that is a fair system?


Rage against it all you want, but ISK can only be introduced into the system by PvE activities. By definition, if you are not involved with PvE, you are not generating inflation. Therefore, those who are doing PvE will feel the full force of any adjustments against inflation. Those not involved in PvE will only be affected by secondary effects.

As for it being fair? hmmm, fairness is irrelevant.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#100 - 2012-11-15 20:49:26 UTC
Devon Krah'tor wrote:

to all hard core hiseccers, I'm sorry but you should be making the lowest income in the game. You all know it, you just don't want to admit it publicly. Its inherently unfair that you recieve max protection, and pay nothing for it.



I will admit it. High sec should be less profitable than other areas of the game.

Unfortunately, how can CCP implement this without EXPLODING the wallet balances of the mega 0.0 alliances?

Players made 0.0 as safe as high sec. Therefore, the prices of the 0.0 minerals have been driven down to the level of high sec minerals. Players PVE in 0.0 as much or more than high sec, meaning that making 0.0 insanely profitable was creating massive ISK balance increase.


Remove L4s from high sec... okay, and deflation causes prices to fall to the new afordability level as set by L3 missions.

Nerf high sec belts, okay, then they belts get mined out shortly after they are respawned and high sec inhabitants have nothing to do all day and no reason to have 2-3 alt accounts.

Even if you are successful in getting a significant portion of carebears out of high sec and into 0.0, then they mine all day when there is no non-blue and station up as soon as a non-blue enters system.... what have we gained. How is this 'more fun' to play EVE with the carebears stationed up all day?

How does this cause more people to sign up to play EVE?