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Warfare & Tactics

 
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One last fix to make Faction Warfare benifit those who PVP.

First post
Author
Dread Operative
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#81 - 2012-11-12 20:24:19 UTC
Damar Rocarion wrote:
X gals method of pvp is "fly a kiting ship, gank noobies. If you meet someone who wont die to usual link boosted kiting comet, run away from local and come back with 10 guys and demand a fight."

After that he runs to forums to boast how awesome he is.


XG has boosts? That's news too me, considering in ever single OGB thread he is firmly against OGB's... and Im in his corp and was the only one with OGB.

Oh Whinemar, the things you say entertain me so.
Dread Operative
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#82 - 2012-11-12 20:26:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Dread Operative
Poison Ivvy wrote:
You guys all funny boasting all this drama around :) Anyways Caldari Militia wont´t ever die as long as we´re around so keep on bringing good fights Galls :)


Thank you for being the only alliance bringing fights, taking systems, and not whining about it!
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#83 - 2012-11-12 20:34:20 UTC
Damar Rocarion wrote:
X gals method of pvp is "fly a kiting ship, gank noobies. If you meet someone who wont die to usual link boosted kiting comet, run away from local and come back with 10 guys and demand a fight."

1. I fail at pvp, but I do understand how to get into fights, and 2. Intaki is great this time of year.
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#84 - 2012-11-12 23:43:59 UTC
Don't mission myself. But I think they are fine, if a faction takes over an entire Warzone and decimate their enemy it ensures they can consistently still make LP.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#85 - 2012-11-13 21:39:18 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
http://gallente.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15192946

Less than two minutes from undocking. Logged into Deven, had to make one jump into Fliet and then warp to minor plex. But it wasn't a good fight. I had my "loki-boosted, snake-set" Comet, warped into him at zero (I know, certain death right? But you know what they say - fortune favors the bold and all that) and had to burn away before getting scrammed.

Carry on.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#86 - 2012-11-13 22:37:44 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
http://gallente.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15192946

Less than two minutes from undocking. Logged into Deven, had to make one jump into Fliet and then warp to minor plex. But it wasn't a good fight. I had my "loki-boosted, snake-set" Comet, warped into him at zero (I know, certain death right? But you know what they say - fortune favors the bold and all that) and had to burn away before getting scrammed.

Carry on.



Thanks for sharing, but why should we care?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#87 - 2012-11-13 22:49:23 UTC
Sean Parisi wrote:
Don't mission myself. But I think they are fine, if a faction takes over an entire Warzone and decimate their enemy it ensures they can consistently still make LP.


actually not really, with tier 1 you will get only 0.5x of rewards while enemy gets 3.25x rewards. So if agent tell you that you will get 25000lp actually with tier 1 you will get 12500 and with tier5 you will get 81250 lp. Also you have to note that if you lose all systems you will lose all lowsec agents so you get actually much less lp than just 50%.

So there is just no point to try to grind any isk on losing side, better to join winners and make easy isk.

And if you want to pvp i am sure there is pvp on every side, at least for now.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#88 - 2012-11-13 23:21:29 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Thanks for sharing, but why should we care?

Direct rebuttal to your argument perhaps? Carry on.
Dread Operative
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#89 - 2012-11-14 05:02:10 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Thanks for sharing, but why should we care?

Direct rebuttal to your argument perhaps? Carry on.


XG arguing with Squids is like arguing with liberals. Logic does not cut it. You have to bribe them with handouts.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#90 - 2012-11-14 20:25:23 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Thanks for sharing, but why should we care?

Direct rebuttal to your argument perhaps? Carry on.



Where did I ever argue it was impossible to get a fight in 2 minutes?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#91 - 2012-11-14 20:49:52 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Another < 10 minute kill Yesterday as well. Log on, comms says "Celestis and griffins in Heyd", UNDOCK (the first key to getting fights quickly btw), warp to plex and engage Celestis, thought griffins were going to come but they didn't. Keres shows up late to whore. Technically not a 1v1, but a good fight filled with potential risk. Mutnin would be proud, but he doesn't play anymore either.

It is just so incredibly difficult to get fights in FW. I mean, I've been wasting like two minutes of my life setting up these fights! Why can't we get fights before we undock from station??!!! rageragerage!!!!!
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#92 - 2012-11-14 22:49:37 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Another < 10 minute kill Yesterday as well. Log on, comms says "Celestis and griffins in Heyd", UNDOCK (the first key to getting fights quickly btw), warp to plex and engage Celestis, thought griffins were going to come but they didn't. Keres shows up late to *****. Technically not a 1v1, but a good fight filled with potential risk. Mutnin would be proud, but he doesn't play anymore either.

It is just so incredibly difficult to get fights in FW. I mean, I've been wasting like two minutes of my life setting up these fights! Why can't we get fights before we undock from station??!!! rageragerage!!!!!



XG again the question isn't whether you can occassionally get lucky and find a fight fast. The question is on average how many fights do you get per hour or 2.

I can tell you I roamed around some busy wt systems and only get about 1 fight per 1.5 hours. Some people think getting 1 good fight per 1.5 hours is good. I don't. I was hoping they would get faction war to the point where we would reliably get 3-7 decent fights every 2 hours.

I first figured out how few fights I was getting per hour when I started taking boosters. I generally would take a booster before I would leave station (so that if I got bad side effects I could fly a different type of ship or whatever) and then start roaming. Well I found that often the booster effect would wear off with no fights. I now don't take boosters in the station anymore, because it is likely that you will just waste them.

Maybe you guys are getting allot more fights up in gallente caldari space. But last time I was told that I went up there and found it was much worse than the amarr minmatar front. I tend to think you just remember the times you get in a fight in 10 minutes of undocking but lose track of the time you spend wandering around.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#93 - 2012-11-14 23:19:06 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Today: Logged into Deven, immediately undocked, warped to Fliet gate and there were three Russian drakes hanging out. Of course they must have been baiting somebody in Fliet. I jump in, larger plex is up so I warp to it. There's another Russian drake tackled by two of our militia guys, so I join in and point and orbit at 20 km. Who knows, maybe we have support coming. I let the guys know on the intel channels that there are Russians in Deven. When the bait drake gets down to 20% shield, the Russian support comes in and one of our guys dies. Technically, not a 1v1, but a fight in under 2 minutes from logging on (AGAIN).

So, I decide to head to Oto. It was at 32% yesterday (Thank you CCP for providing these numbers), and today it is at 28% - hey maybe somebody is plexing it down. On the way, in Deven there's a FW mission up so I take mental note. Open minor plex in Oto - Navy SWO (who has been there the last few days) doesn't show up in the first minute so I head back to Deven. Maybe I can gank a FW mission runner? I warp to the mission and there's a Russian dramiel there waiting to gank me. So I warp into the mission adn then warp to Fliet. He follows. Sorry, but Dramiel > Comet and this is a fight I would lose (and have lost) 100% of the time. I jump Fliet, warp to minor and he follows so I warp out again into Heyd and ship into a Catalyst. PRO TIP: Have multiple types of ships ready to go in station.

Who knows? He's probably gone and I'll just run the minor in Fliet. I warp to Fliet gate in Heyd and he's there in his dram just jumping in. I jump through and warp to the minor. Surely this dude will follow and I'll probably lose this Cat. I've got maybe a 10% success rate against drams (according to recent history fighting drams in Annancale), but I think "Hey why not?" I summon all the karma I can from the great Zarnak Wolf, godfather of the125mm rail Catalyst, and think WWZD? He wouldn't go into the plex. He'd land and burn off as quickly as possible. So that's what I did. Dram lands and gives chase. 10 overheated seconds later.... 10 minutes into Eve

Unfortunately I had to go GCC, so I warped into the minor and hung out for 10 minutes to get 25k LP as well. Not a bad session. Elongated not by FW but by low sec GCC mechanics.

Two fights in the first 12 minutes. Could have two fights in under 10 minutes but I was too much of a pussy to engage a Dramiel with my Comet.

What do these three fights listed in this thread have in common?
1. FW plexes and missions ALL played a key role in enabling the fights.
2. All three fights involved ships I use to solo run FW plexes.
3. I was willing to engage at less than 100% odds of winning (probably 70%, then 50%, then 20% odds by my estimation)
4. Intel channels are great for finding engagements.

Bottom Line: YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#94 - 2012-11-15 01:37:47 UTC
XG

Nothing you describe is new to me.

I see you also got another fight 2 hours after that. And another fight 2 hours after that one. One decent fight every 2 hours isn't bad. Keep at it and you might be able to get as good as I am and have fights every 1.5 hours.



I do appreciate your comment on how important it is to be able to reship quickly. You probably don't realize how station lockouts often prevent that.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#95 - 2012-11-15 02:49:59 UTC
This afternoon: 32 seconds! Logged in, this time in space. Saw plex on scan with wolf and thrasher, warped to plex at 20, engaged thrasher, got kill.

So, bottom line, there's plenty of on demand pvp in FW. Don't let any of the posters in here tell you otherwise.

Check out the plexes. If you are in FW, then run them if things are slow. You'll get lots of LP (Caldari are at Tier 2 = 1 hookbill per minor plex), to recover from any of your losses. Kill stuff as you see fit. Join intel channels, x up for fleets, yada yada yada.

FW is where it's at fellas - if you want near on-demand pvp.

chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#96 - 2012-11-15 04:25:01 UTC  |  Edited by: chatgris
I took the X G challenge and took a break from WoT - in under 2 hours I got 10 kills, 8 of those were solo (one has a few people on the kill that ninja'd well before I was on grid), the other two had a friend in a thrasher with me. All just me in the ol trusty thrasher, no boosts.

All fights except one were in FW plexes. I only had to roam in a 2 jump radius of my home system.

Seems like FW is alive and kicking to me.
Super Chair
Project Cerberus
Templis CALSF
#97 - 2012-11-15 05:52:31 UTC
chatgris wrote:
I took the X G challenge and took a break from WoT - in under 2 hours I got 10 kills, 8 of those were solo (one has a few people on the kill that ninja'd well before I was on grid), the other two had a friend in a thrasher with me. All just me in the ol trusty thrasher, no boosts.

All fights except one were in FW plexes. I only had to roam in a 2 jump radius of my home system.

Seems like FW is alive and kicking to me.


League of Legends misses you (not teemo though, f@ck teemo)
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#98 - 2012-11-15 09:39:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
I'm afraid that there's no such thing as final fix for FW. FW was intended as some space for "self-paying" PvP activity, kinda middle ground between roaming low just for lulz and going to sov null for srs business of whatever sort.

But that means FW is an income source, and as such it appeals to those seeking ISK. Let's also take into consideration amount of ISK "provided". Too few, and it won't cover ships people wanna fly even in slightest, and even farmers won't come, while for PvP fans it will be just another excuse to pointlessly roam lowsec (protip - PvP fans don't need that excuse, leading to even less damn given to FW by those as well as by "farmers", lack of targets will be understandable). Give more - and certain people will grind it all, still avoiding combat and loses all that income was supposed to cover. Not exactly PvP environement you're trying to achieve.

So if you bind this (decent, let's say) amount of ISK to local PvE activity more, you will see people who are in just for grind. Move focus on PvP - and you'll see something you won't see in any other game but EVE: people farming their alts or even pulling off stuff like "FW forex" (this is due due to the fact that EVE designed in a way to encourage alts, no other game provide such benefits for having some).

Noone can fix that without completely remaking the game tbh.

The only way to deal with that is, like always, doing your stuff and don't mind others, like some posters above seem to do (and if that works for them, why not for you?). This, obviously, won't do anything about people who are in just to grind in the corner (or about whatever group you don't like), but as I've said, I don't believe that it's possible to artifically turn FW into proper battleground with PCs fighting PCs being mercs for NPCs (if that's the intention).

And speaking about missions, well... I don't see them as an integral part of FW which is PvP environement so far. Not when doing them requires you to fly the ship that will fold in PvP like a cardboard.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#99 - 2012-11-15 13:43:09 UTC
chatgris wrote:
I took the X G challenge and took a break from WoT - in under 2 hours I got 10 kills, 8 of those were solo (one has a few people on the kill that ninja'd well before I was on grid), the other two had a friend in a thrasher with me. All just me in the ol trusty thrasher, no boosts.

All fights except one were in FW plexes. I only had to roam in a 2 jump radius of my home system.

Seems like FW is alive and kicking to me.



Thats really excellent. I think I did something close to that once or twice but its excedingly rare. That is definitely not happening in the amarr minmatar front. How many different fights was it?

BTW its not really XG challenge. He doesn't try to see how many fights he can get in 2 hours. He just gets a single kill and comes running to the forums to post it and says "see there is lots of pvp"

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

jjohnpaul xvii
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#100 - 2012-11-15 14:50:48 UTC  |  Edited by: jjohnpaul xvii
I don't think its that much of an exaggeration Cearain. I get about the same amount of fights as XG, id say i would average 2/3 decent/enjoyable fights per hour as a minimum or i'll log off/go do something else for a bit.

- I have limited playtime, I do use boosts/doubles as a scout, and i am aggressive in the fights ill go in for. I dont care about losing ships. Ill fight solo/pair, small gang or even bloob depending on what targets are available. I do have 'pods' of ships strategically located around teh WZ so if i need something for a minor, i wont have more than 3/4 jumps to go.

- i have access to 6-8 active intel channels i use with at least 4 of these bringing good quality intel, failing that i fly the loop Arzad > Sahtogas > Kam > Dal > Amamake > Arzad which rarely lets me down.

- Minnies have an excellent relationship between corps/alliances. Mostly, we share one TS server and the interaction between corps on that is brilliant. Ill often get someone jump into our channel to report activity or call for help etc or vice versa. If nothings going on in one channel ill jump in with some of the other corps or even just general militia.


All of these things help me personally to get what i regard as a good amount of 'quality' fights. I dont know the Amarr set up at all > but i get the impression (feel free to correct me) that the Amarr corps dont really work together as well as the Minnies (including comms and intel sharing). Maybe someone like Zarnak or Saly could comment having seen both sides of the coin.

I'm not saying that everything XG is saying is true, but you may be losing out on some fights as he says due to lack of intel/faction cohesion.

In my experience, i agree with Chatgris and XG, i really dont think its that bad at the minute. (IMHO).



As a complete sidenote > Kam/kourm/Auga was BUZZING last night. I get the feeling activity is ramping up again pre-patch.....