EVE General Discussion

OP has left the thread now.

This thread is now about GRRRRRR GOOOOONS

I do believe everyone has missed the point of the OP.
I do not believe he was asking for hand outs or advise.

He was suggesting that CCP could retain more newbies if they had a better training program.
If CCP retains more newbies, they have more money to work with and be able to keep EVE alive.

I like EVE alot and worry that it will not last.
I don't really want EVE to change in any basic way except to provide good reliable training seems like a good thing.

I went through the initial training lessons provided by CCP several times.
But I had to go to youtube to really understand about core probe scanning and how to use directional scan effectively.

I actually enjoy researching and figuring things out for myself but i know that is not for everyone.
To have CCP missions that would tutor a new player into feeling more comfortable in the game i think would increase retention of new players, That should translate into more income for CCP and make them happy.

I think a happy CCP is good for EVE.

One thing to remember is that the minimum SP requirements means very little in this game. If you want to PVP your 2 mil SP into combat training will make you a better candidate than a 20mil SP guy with no combat training. You can get into corp with lower than the minimum SP they require if you show that it is what your focused at and you were able to show some skill at using your limited SP to your advantage. At 2 mil sp i got into corps requiring a minimum of 8.

On another note I have been known known to take in new players that would like to do what I do. I don't care about SP I just care that you have the will to give it a go without somebody holding your hand.

Your looking for somebody to hold your hand.

EDIT: It seems I came late to the party....

Okay, this is an interesting idea, but completely unapproachable as it stands. Nothing wrong with it, except that it really wouldn't be feasible for CCP to actual run a dedicated training Corp. New players require a lot of hand-holding in some cases, and time regardless.

I think some troll/Alt/New Players just try to get as much attention and hand-holding as possible honestly; constantly demanding more time and effort on the part of the helper. It's tedious, tiresome work.

On that note, I'd like to suggest an alternative.

Here is what we already have:

The NPE with all its tutorials
Aura, the help AI thing
Help Channel
Rookie Chat
NPC Starter Corporations
NPC Starter Corporation Agents
The basic Character generator and descriptions of the races

Here's what we could do:

First, lets look at the NPC starter Corporations and their respective agents. What we have here is the basic plot of the New Player Experience. These could also be the CCP Corporations for new players. Automatic, no searching, they are already there, you start in them.

Second, lets look at Rookie Chat. This is a mess. Too many players constantly asking questions, chat window whizzing by, and some poor guy trying to keep up with it all, sometimes with the help of older players on new alt accounts, or players who just get it, or certain things about it.

Also, people are more inclined to leave it than bother with it. People constantly ask if there is any way to close it permanently, only to receive the response that it sticks around until 30 days in, whether you like it or not.

Third, we have the Help channel. Yes, people use it, by I'm not convinced it is that effective. Certainly, I don't feel like sitting in it for hours waiting for that one relevant question I can answer. Lot of silly nonsense is asked in this channel last I checked.

Fourth, we have Aura, the Help Bot. Interesting, but what does she really do? Talk a lot, try to override your decision making, put you in places you really don't want to be at that moment. This is not a careful guide that pops up as you need it, but a menace on the New Player Experience that moves your ship about and tells you what to do, while requiring constant pop-ups to make it go away.

Sorry, but it's true, or was the last time I went through a character creation.. wait, I barely remember the last; someone must have made it easier to shoo her away.

Fifth, we have NPC Starter Corporation Agents. Good, we have missions. A series of 10 of each of an assortment of different professions missions. Not bad, but rather droll once you've done it a few times. Certainly, when I first started EVE, I went through all of them.

Sixth, we have Character generation. really, this is first, but maybe I'm working backwards here. Good, make a character; basic information included. Not really relevant beyond that process aside from elements of role play that happen to hinge on it.

Now, where was I going with this?

Okay, lets split Rookie Chat into all the separate Starter Corps and assign ISDs, moderators, and such to all of them. Now, we have Corporation chat, and these Starter Corps become more than a simple starter Corp with missions.

Retain the tutorials, though they can be reworked and refreshed as time goes on. Make the agents more interesting, and involved in the players initial progress. There was something in a thread about skills, injecting, and I suggested auto-learning level 1 or the required level of that skill upon injection to remove the disruption of training a skill in the middle of, and before you can continue, the tutorial you happen to be on.

Also, rewards; instant gratification yes, but it's the NPE and it's helpful and prevents subscription loss due to lack of interest from a failure to draw players in with stop signs in front of them every time they turn around. Good for EVE, bad for initial player retention. At least, I think so.

Remove the 30 day time limit on Rookie help. It would effectively be Corporation chat at this point, and it is a starter corporation. Maybe some of the players who have survived the first 30 days can help with someone else's.

Obviously, moderate.

Help Channel. Incorporate it into the Recruitment Channel maybe. Moderate it; both actually. Maybe incorporate some sort of limiter on posting by characters per minute or something.

Maybe allow Aura to transfer you directly to the Help and/or Recruitment channel, with a list of FAQ as well as giving answers to some more frequently asked questions directly. This would certainly make Aura more useful for new players. A little immersion breaking perhaps, but then, they've hardly had time to immerse themselves have they.

Improve Auras function. "Do you want help now?" First question she should ask; simple Yes or no answer. If Yes, leads to FAQ first, with option to move on to beginners tutorials through there. "Can you help me with Beginners Tutorials?"

If No, then the Window closes and Aura indicates that you should press F12 or access the help menu if you should ever need her assistance.

Small changes to the Character Creation process, including moving you into your Starter Corporation based on your Character choices. I forgot whether these were randomized or not now; Somehow I have the impression they are; or maybe it was the ones after that were randomized. Really, they should be the ones you select.

..and then, we can always access live events. These don't have to be long, involved, or dreadfully labor intensive, or even that common. But it introduces new players to another part of EVE, adds to the experience, and allows for some basic experience and possibly a bit of PvP. Certainly, other players interested could be forewarned and become involved, or even lead some of these events.

..and we have a CCP Corp. More than one actually. Even room for competition.

While I don't think a CCP Corp is the solution, I do tend to agree with the OP.
I know, Eve is harsh but if you're new, have no friends, no isk and very little clue (even if you're studying hard to be able to play), it's almost impossible to find a good angle on the game.
Add to that the hordes of elitist snobs, trolls and griefers in game and on the forum and I see where the OP is coming from.

I'm all for people HTFU'ing and putting in an effort, but I do wish it was easier for lonely noobs to create a social network, which is the most essential asset for any Eve player to have and also the greatest incentive to stay (and pay).

Id suggest spending less time dreaming up ideas on the forums and more time looking for a corp that fits your needs.

There are more than just 2 corps out there that are willing to take in new(er) players.

Start with the recruitment channel, join the various corporate public channels, talk to the recruiting representatives, ask them questions, check their corp web pages, kill boards, etc etc...

Looking for a new corp can be daunting, but it will seriously effect your level of enjoyment in the game, make a bigger investment in your efforts to find the right corp & lose some of the what can you do for me attitude. Add a little of this is what I bring to the table and you'll be off and running in no time.

As CCP Eterne replied earlier, this idea has been thrown around often for things we could do for our customers. The biggest problem with this is that a CCP run corporation or alliance would always be viewed as a biased, unfair entity that helps players in a way that mocks all the effort put in by players who came before. Other training corporations would have no hope of "competing" against a CCP run corporation and this would be a direct intervention in the game environment itself. Interventions of that kind, such as spawning assets or giving away goodies, is something we avoid in any way possible as we don't want to direct how you play in our sandbox.

The best we can do in our current mindset is to have a good new player experience coupled with good articles on basics, and a good place to find other players that you might be able to join. Currently the Alliance & Corporation Recruitment Center forum is a very active ground for finding corporations but we can't really force players to go to the forums.

I don't want to sound like a grizzled, battle-scarred veteran that somehow "survived" EVE's early beginnings but this game requires a certain amount of simply going out there and chatting with people. You will get scammed, destroyed, cheated, trolled, and blown up but that is just a part of the essence of this game.

Just remember, your trust is your most valuable asset.

Even the basic proposition of the OP is wrong. It is not hard at all to get into a corporation. Maybe he was trying to join Goonwaffe or some other elite group, sure they are picky in whom they let in. Most other corps take anybody who comes across as a normal person and serious player.

And if all else fails, it was already pointed out there are groups like E-Uni or RvB which do exactly what the OP aks for.

Just don't aim too high... many veteran corps don't want to waste their time on infant players who ask tons of questions only to quit EVE after a few weeks. Stick to where you belong: a corp that is already composed of newer players that are on your level.

So, do some corps indeed slap arbitrary minimum SP requirements onto facades of their recruitment bureaus? I've mostly seen skillplans instead, so it's more like "these skills that will take N SP to train" instead of "N SP of random skills".