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CCP Training Corporation (Idea)

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Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#41 - 2012-11-13 20:06:22 UTC
I can see the first course offered now...

Eve 101.... Entry fee... 5 mil isk.

First class... Cancelled, no refund. Congrats on the first time being scammed. Now go try the tutorial. Good luck, it's a harsh, fun universe. Lol
Moe Doobie
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#42 - 2012-11-13 20:08:52 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Your problem isn't that CCP doesn't have its own training corp or that big alliances don't want new players, it's that you want instant action/help without being willing to work for it.

I agree that CCP's tutorials are lacklustre (when I did them 2 years ago) and I think it would be much simpler to teach people through video tutorials. On the other hand, learning the mechanics your self can be rewarding.

Find something you are interested in, learn about it and then use that experience to shape your disisions instead of just saying "my what a big alliance you have. Can I join"



"work for it"?

Like what? Join a certain forum and be insta-vited into one of the largest Alliances in game?

Have 100 Mill SP, which just means you've kept up your sub and trained skills? Which requires a credit card and 2-3 minutes per day/week/month?

Yes, it's the hard work I'm railing against.
Moe Doobie
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2012-11-13 20:10:41 UTC
Klown Walk wrote:
You are playing the wrong game if you don't even have patience for the tutorials.



I stated very clearly that it's the inefficiency of the tutorials I'm concerned about.

...How would I have a clue how inefficient they are in training....if I haven't even done them?
Moe Doobie
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2012-11-13 20:16:26 UTC
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
Moe Doobie wrote:

Give lectures (another complaint I have of E-UNI is that while I appreciate their efforts, many of their lectures are given by people with very thick accents and I can't understand what they're saying). Getting a few American players to record some lectures in exchange for ISK or PLEX doesn't seem like a bad idea to me. Also establishing a CENTRALIZED source of information would help.



I bolded the funny parts.

Why American? Because you are?

This is the underlying logic that show you're probably not cut out for EVE (just like your suggestion).



It wasn't, I can't heard what this guy was saying, I wish the recording was clearer (which is "I cant use something, please let me use it").

It was I am American, I can't understand what someone is saying, therefore someone should make an American record something (which is "I can't understand this easily enough, can someone specifically do something that would help me specifically understand this?").

When I started this game I knew no-one else who played it. I started running missions because that was what naturally followed the Tutorial. I was always interested in joining null sec PvP, but it wasn't until a friend of mine told me to go join him in null sec I ever tried it.

I don't think that CCP should pander to individuals at all. I think EVE Uni is an amazing resource, it's player run and it doesn't mean that the company is pandering to a specific type of player. You want to go and learn by listening to people? Sure the option is there. You prefer to get blown up over and over again until you pick stuff up? That's cool too.

I just introduced a friend who was an ex-WoW player to EVE, she loves the fact that there's so much to learn and that you aren't expected to know it all EVER never mind straight away. I still couldn't even tell you how to actually make something or how to use an R&D agent.

The game does need to be made more accessible to new players, but it's not by "paying americans" to record lectures. In terms of centralised source of info there is one: Evelopedia. Though no-one writes anything in it because all the alliances have their own stuff for their own members.

Oh and if this post is anything to go by theres a reason your application may be taking so long.



1) You yourself are in a huge Alliance, so GG on the whole "I'm rough and tuff and gruff and did it all on my own.
2) If I'm German and I can't understand what someone is saying, I'll probably request a German version, amirite?
3) You introduced a friend to EvE. Cool story. That means she had a exp friend in game with loads of isk to provide. Yeah what a rough time they had.
4) My simply being concerned about the training in eve is a reason to deny me membership? dud ego away, you're another bittervet bitching at noobs for daring to open their mouths. You're being carried by a huge alliance yet you want to talk abut how noobs "make their own way".

My post was civil, but I do not take kindly to being disrespected simply for having an opinion you do not agree with.
Some Rando
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2012-11-13 20:17:45 UTC
I would create trial account after trial account just to awox this fictional CCP training corp. Come to think of it, how often does EVE Uni get awoxed?

CCP has no sense of humour.
No More Heroes
Boomer Humor
Snuffed Out
#46 - 2012-11-13 20:18:52 UTC
Moe Doobie wrote:
1) EVE will not continue much further without growth.


EVE has been steadily increasing in active subs since 2003; against the industry trend of declining subs over a titles lifetime.

.
Myxx
The Scope
#47 - 2012-11-13 20:21:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Myxx
As long as the game isn't dumbed down to accommodate people who otherwise wouldn't fit or tolerate the game, I don't care.

As in, don't turn this into WoW in Space.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#48 - 2012-11-13 20:21:45 UTC
Moe Doobie wrote:
However just normal everyday social guilds, no. To me those were the best guilds. The Raid Leader wouldn't have a stroke on mic every time a heal was missed or Bloodlust wasn't popped in time.

I know what you're talking about. Was in charge of such a PvE guild for 2 years with about 100 active members, 3 active 10 man raids plus a 25 man raid. On a RP server! And there were quite a few active role players, happy with the guild and actively raiding. And of course an active PvP group.

But EVE is a different beast. Because of loss. It's all about the loss, that's part of the game. That's what makes EVE so special.

When I switched from D2 HC to WoW, I took a very long time to get used to not dying anymore. That's what really brought me to EVE.

And ofc people here take precautions against loss. EVE is about risk management. Better get used to that Smile.

Remove standings and insurance.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#49 - 2012-11-13 20:23:51 UTC
Moe, I'd take a step back and a breath, you're starting to lose your temper.

I'd like to point out a secret to you though.

"Moe" wrote:

3) You introduced a friend to EvE. Cool story. That means she had a exp friend in game with loads of isk to provide. Yeah what a rough time they had.


This is the real, horrible secret of all of Eve. Make friends. Friends will teach you things. Friends might give you things. Friends want you to do well and want you to help them do well.

Player corporations, of which there are numerous that DO recruit Noobs, and still know what they are doing, will provide you with a ready source of friends. The biggest alliances in the game started this way. The biggest alliances in the game keep their power this way.

A CCP run training corp is not the way to go about this, since players already provide this service. EVE Uni is player run (and yes, it takes a while to filter through their queue). RvB is a good place to learn how to PvP since it provides PvP on demand. No, they won't pay your way for you, but that's just the way EVE works.

Please, do yourself a favor. Go looking for a group of people to make friends in, and get them to teach you what you need to know. It used to be that 'SP minimums' were the norm, but that style of recruitment is slowly going the way of the dodo. :)
Commander Spurty
#50 - 2012-11-13 20:24:10 UTC
To original poster

- WOW is a different idea
- big alliances are already packed with people. So many people that they are without individual identity
- don't ever strive for mediocre
- small corps, best corps

Rethink your strategy and enjoy your new friendships

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2012-11-13 20:26:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Moe Doobie wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
Your problem isn't that CCP doesn't have its own training corp or that big alliances don't want new players, it's that you want instant action/help without being willing to work for it.

I agree that CCP's tutorials are lacklustre (when I did them 2 years ago) and I think it would be much simpler to teach people through video tutorials. On the other hand, learning the mechanics your self can be rewarding.

Find something you are interested in, learn about it and then use that experience to shape your disisions instead of just saying "my what a big alliance you have. Can I join"



"work for it"?

Like what? Join a certain forum and be insta-vited into one of the largest Alliances in game?

Have 100 Mill SP, which just means you've kept up your sub and trained skills? Which requires a credit card and 2-3 minutes per day/week/month?

Yes, it's the hard work I'm railing against.


By "work for it" i just mean that you don't seem to have put much effort into understanding how eve works.

There is a basic path that i would suggest that new players follow, and it goes something like this:

1. work your way up to level 4 missions - this will lead you to training the combat skills that you need for pvp

2. Get your sanding up enough so you can use a jump clone - Obviously this enebles you to get a jump clone but you will also earn a nice chunk of isk along the way.

3. Select a corp where you can develop your current skills - this could include joining a missions running, industrial or exploration corp.

After that you will will hopefully have made some friends, earnt some isk and got some good ships. You should then be able to make an informed decision about what path would best suit you next.

Also, maybe listen to some eve podcast. Some are pretty entertaining and informative... I think damage control is an instructional one.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Catalyst XI
Catalytic Holdings
#52 - 2012-11-13 20:31:09 UTC
well, although you're undoubted trolling, ill take the bait since some things you said about RvB are completely false.

Moe Doobie wrote:


CCP, flat-out needs to take a more proactive approach to retaining new people; and it starts with training. I love E-UNI to death and I appreciate their contributions to the game but their application process is ridiculous. RvB is great, but let's be honest, a 5 day old player isn't learning PVP in RvB. They're simply being constantly blown up by T2 fitted veterans and providing killmails.

highlighted part of interest

you're in fact completely wrong, and maybe if you would have stayed in rvb more then three days you would have seen that pvp isn't about whose flying the shiniest ship but about who has the most experience. I fly a t1 fitted incursus daily and **** t2 fitted frigs consistently.
I guess you'll just be a noob for ever if you dont see the value of learning by doing (as such is the case in rvb). A five day old character in rvb is going learn more about pvp in his first week in rvb then many of the pvp noobs that join up with large 0.0 alliances will learn in the first few months they're in said alliance. *prepares for the nullbears angry replies*

Moe Doobie wrote:

. My issue is how many vets front RvB as a training corporation when it clearly is not. It's a place for freelance no holds barred pvp, NOT training...PRACTICE perhaps, but not training. Training is the process of learning. Practice is the process of applying what you have learned in the hopes of honing your skills.

Show me a single post, chat log, or whatever, where a RvB vet tells someone that rvb is a training corp. NOWHERE is it advertised as such, anyone who says that hasn't actually been in rvb. You learn by doing in rvb, nobody is going to hold your hand, people are helpfull and we have resources available for noobs but we do zero hand holding. If you cant figure how to pvp on your own, you should quit the game, becasue its clearly too complicated for you.
Dalmont Delantee
Gecko Corp
#53 - 2012-11-13 20:32:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Dalmont Delantee
Moe Doobie wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Eve Uni - The in game pc run training corp.

The thing is, the corp isn't the important bit. It's the people in the corp. Because a corp entirely of newbies is in a somewhat painful place. It needs a leavening of experienced players to actually answer the questions.

So a CCP run corp would require CCP to hire staff to run it. Which is probably not viable.


Given the retention rate increase, sure it would. Plus like I said they could offer free gametime to them, plex, isk, etc. Even if they pay RL money, the trade off in growth, exposure and retention would far outweigh the costs.

Corporations IRL pay hundreds of millions in ad expenses to MAKE THEIR PRODUCT MORE ACCESSIBLE TO POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS. Same here.


Sorry it wouldn't. The game is just not playable for some people because:

PVP everywhere
Loose all your stuff

These two things scare away more people than the learning the game curve, which is significantly less than it has been.

Of course those two thing is are one of the main reason I and many others play this game and if that goes. So goes many many many many people.

If you want wow in space go play SWTOR
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#54 - 2012-11-13 20:34:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
Look, as nice as it would be to cotton wool pad newbies and show how everything is done in eve, that isnt what eve is.
EVE is harsh. Very harsh. A big part of playing eve is carving out your own path and figuring things out.

One of the worst ways to prepare a new player for the realities of eve is to shelter them and give them free stuff as it makes them not appreciate stuff and when the cotton wool stops, they hit a wall of reality and will generally quit anyway.

PS: there are TONS of corps that take pretty much anyone. obviously they (generally speaking) are not the best quality corps but they are easy to get into and get started for new people.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#55 - 2012-11-13 20:35:30 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:


By "work for it" i just mean that you don't seem to have put much effort into understanding how eve works.

There is a basic path that i would suggest that new players follow, and it goes something like this:

1. work your way up to level 4 missions - this will lead you to training the combat skills that you need for pvp

2. Get your sanding up enough so you can use a jump clone - Obviously this enebles you to get a jump clone but you will also earn a nice chunk of isk along the way.

3. Select a corp where you can develop your current skills - this could include joining a missions running, industrial or exploration corp.

After that you will will hopefully have made some friends, earnt some isk and got some good ships. You should then be able to make an informed decision about what path would best suit you next.

Also, maybe listen to some eve podcast. Some are pretty entertaining and informative... I think damage control is an instructional one.


I could not disagree more with points 1 and 2. Level 4 missions do not teach you combat skills (unless you mean specifically as regards to SP), and in fact I've noticed that fresh meat is often better in a fight than someone who's had their actual piloting skills atrophied by months of L4 mission running. They are entirely different skill sets, and frankly I would rather have an enthusiastic noob in a tackle frigate than a generally risk-adverse former PvE player in a battleship.

Many corps have the ability to allow you to use jump clones anyways, or have people who can push you through the standings grind till when you can use one.

Point 3 is spot on however; It's important to find a group of people who can help you with what you find fun in EVE. Friendship, in this case, is truly magic.
Moe Doobie
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#56 - 2012-11-13 20:36:21 UTC
Catalyst XI wrote:
well, although you're undoubted trolling, ill take the bait since some things you said about RvB are completely false.

Moe Doobie wrote:


CCP, flat-out needs to take a more proactive approach to retaining new people; and it starts with training. I love E-UNI to death and I appreciate their contributions to the game but their application process is ridiculous. RvB is great, but let's be honest, a 5 day old player isn't learning PVP in RvB. They're simply being constantly blown up by T2 fitted veterans and providing killmails.

highlighted part of interest

you're in fact completely wrong, and maybe if you would have stayed in rvb more then three days you would have seen that pvp isn't about whose flying the shiniest ship but about who has the most experience. I fly a t1 fitted incursus daily and **** t2 fitted frigs consistently.
I guess you'll just be a noob for ever if you dont see the value of learning by doing (as such is the case in rvb). A five day old character in rvb is going learn more about pvp in his first week in rvb then many of the pvp noobs that join up with large 0.0 alliances will learn in the first few months they're in said alliance. *prepares for the nullbears angry replies*

Moe Doobie wrote:

. My issue is how many vets front RvB as a training corporation when it clearly is not. It's a place for freelance no holds barred pvp, NOT training...PRACTICE perhaps, but not training. Training is the process of learning. Practice is the process of applying what you have learned in the hopes of honing your skills.

Show me a single post, chat log, or whatever, where a RvB vet tells someone that rvb is a training corp. NOWHERE is it advertised as such, anyone who says that hasn't actually been in rvb. You learn by doing in rvb, nobody is going to hold your hand, people are helpfull and we have resources available for noobs but we do zero hand holding. If you cant figure how to pvp on your own, you should quit the game, becasue its clearly too complicated for you.




I NO AGREE WIF U SO U IZ TROLLZ

Dude gtfo my post I'm not even going to bother reading your bs post past that first line.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#57 - 2012-11-13 20:37:26 UTC
Moe Doobie wrote:


I NO AGREE WIF U SO U IZ TROLLZ

Dude gtfo my post I'm not even going to bother reading your bs post past that first line.


Yeah, go take a walk or something, I guess.
Kainotomiu Ronuken
koahisquad
#58 - 2012-11-13 20:38:20 UTC
Moe Doobie wrote:
CCP Eterne wrote:
We have tossed around ideas like this recently. Nothing beyond going "Wouldn't it be interesting if..." though.



Dude I'm TELLING you it WILL RETAIN NOOBS.

We join your training corp, we meet other noobs, make connections, PLUS, player owned corps know for a FACT we know how to fly when we graduate and they get quality recruits. Everyone wins here.

Plus on top of THAT, it helps with the spy problem. A Toon that's been in the Concord Multinational Training Academy (just an idea) for 2 months (req time for graduation) is a lot less likely to be a spy alt.

'Cause you know EVERYTHING that CCP doesn't, amirite or amirite?

EVE University is doing a great job already, along with the other more specialised training corps, and CCP should not steal their game. EVE is about player created content, remember?

And besides, having an alt sit in a corp with no entry requirements for two months does not make it not a spy. People already do that with E-UNI.
Moe Doobie
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#59 - 2012-11-13 20:39:14 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Look, as nice as it would be to cotton wool pad newbies and show how everything is done in eve, that isnt what eve is.
EVE is harsh. Very harsh. A big part of playing eve is carving out your own path and figuring things out.

One of the worst ways to prepare a new player for the realities of eve is to shelter them and give them free stuff as it makes them not appreciate stuff and when the cotton wool stops, they hit a wall of reality and will generally quit anyway.

PS: there are TONS of corps that take pretty much anyone. obviously they (generally speaking) and not the best quality corps but they are easy to get into and get started for new people.



I never mentioned shelter or free stuff. At all. Ever.

Let me clarify my stance:

I am not asking for smaller and easier books to read. I am asking for the books to be easier to find and the library made more accessible. That. Is. It.
Moe Doobie
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#60 - 2012-11-13 20:41:56 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Moe Doobie wrote:


I NO AGREE WIF U SO U IZ TROLLZ

Dude gtfo my post I'm not even going to bother reading your bs post past that first line.


Yeah, go take a walk or something, I guess.



I make a civil post airing out some concerns and some idiot comes and calls me a troll, and I need to take a walk?

I'm done with this thread. You vets are f**king annoying seriously. You want to insult the s**t out of noobs then when we insult you back you claim we're overreacting. Unsubbing from thread. I see how EvE players at when someone asks a simple questions or puts forth a simple suggestion. You guys have fun.