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Discussion: A high-end drone skill to decrease bandwidth usage ?
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Iris Bravemount
Golden Grinding Gears
#1 - 2012-11-13 13:13:15 UTC
With retribution kicking drone users in the balls, maybe they could use some love.

Ok, so here is an idea for a new high-end skill. I don't know if it's a good one, you tell me.

Advanced Drone Management (x8) (about a month and a half to train it to lvl 5, a bit less for the prereqs)

Prerequisites: Drone Interfacing V

Decreases drone bandwidth usage by 8% per level.

This would result in the following bandwidth costs at levels 0 to V:

Full Heavy/Sentry flight : 125 (25/d) > 115 (23/d) > 105 (21/d) > 95 (19/d) > 85 (17/d) > 75 (15/d)
Full Medium flight: 50 (10/d) > 46 (9.2/d) > 42 (8.4/d) > 38 (7.6/d) > (34 (6.8/d) > 30 (6/d)
Full Light flight: 25 (5/d) > 23 (4.6/d) > 21 (4.2/d) > 19 (3.8/d) > (17 (3.4/d) > 15 (3/d)

Ships would still be limited by the size of their dronebay, but it would allow advanced drone users to make better use of their drone skills on some hulls.

It would obviously have no effect on hulls on which bandwidth = drone bay.

It would not increase the hard limit of 5 drones per ship.

It also wouldn't have any impact on carriers or supercarriers.

"I will not hesitate when the test of Faith finds me, for only the strongest conviction will open the gates of paradise. My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity." - Paladin's Creed
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#2 - 2012-11-13 14:14:42 UTC
I think it would be better to increase a ships bandwidth rather than decrease the amount used by individual drones. (Similar to how Electronics and Engineering increase PG and CPU.) Maybe some low slot modules that add between +5mbit for frigates and +25mbits for BCs and BSs.

That said, I can't say I'm in favour of increasing bandwidth at all. You can't increase the amount of turrets on a gun boat so I'm not sure you should increase the number of drones a drone boat uses.

Friends
Iris Bravemount
Golden Grinding Gears
#3 - 2012-11-13 15:00:20 UTC
Hakan MacTrew wrote:
I think it would be better to increase a ships bandwidth rather than decrease the amount used by individual drones. (Similar to how Electronics and Engineering increase PG and CPU.) Maybe some low slot modules that add between +5mbit for frigates and +25mbits for BCs and BSs.

That said, I can't say I'm in favour of increasing bandwidth at all. You can't increase the amount of turrets on a gun boat so I'm not sure you should increase the number of drones a drone boat uses.


This wouldn't increase the number of drones the ship uses.

You can look at it as an equivalent to weapon upgrades and advanced weapon upgrades, allowing you to use heavier drones.

"I will not hesitate when the test of Faith finds me, for only the strongest conviction will open the gates of paradise. My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity." - Paladin's Creed
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#4 - 2012-11-13 15:40:59 UTC
When you put it like that, it makes alot more sense. I would say +5% per level of the skill would be fair. Thus allowing a ship with 100mbits base to have 125mbits at level five of this skill.

Friends
Jin alPatar
Entertainment 7wenty
The Burning Contingent Alliance
#5 - 2012-11-13 16:17:32 UTC
Hakan MacTrew wrote:
When you put it like that, it makes alot more sense. I would say +5% per level of the skill would be fair. Thus allowing a ship with 100mbits base to have 125mbits at level five of this skill.


I like this idea. Either as a module or a skill.

The 8% number may be a bit off. This would let the Myrmidon use a full flight of heavies instead of the three it can use now. That's a bit steep for a buff. (you're looking at a 66% bonus to damage).

Overall, nice idea.
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#6 - 2012-11-13 16:28:05 UTC
Jin alPatar wrote:
Hakan MacTrew wrote:
When you put it like that, it makes alot more sense. I would say +5% per level of the skill would be fair. Thus allowing a ship with 100mbits base to have 125mbits at level five of this skill.


I like this idea. Either as a module or a skill.

The 8% number may be a bit off. This would let the Myrmidon use a full flight of heavies instead of the three it can use now. That's a bit steep for a buff. (you're looking at a 66% bonus to damage).

Overall, nice idea.


The Myrmidon is under powered drone wise atm, Its supposed to be getting a bandwidth buff anyway. And lets face it, the Gila can use a full flight of heavies and thats just a cruiser hull.

Friends
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-11-13 16:33:25 UTC
Hakan MacTrew wrote:
Jin alPatar wrote:
Hakan MacTrew wrote:
When you put it like that, it makes alot more sense. I would say +5% per level of the skill would be fair. Thus allowing a ship with 100mbits base to have 125mbits at level five of this skill.


I like this idea. Either as a module or a skill.

The 8% number may be a bit off. This would let the Myrmidon use a full flight of heavies instead of the three it can use now. That's a bit steep for a buff. (you're looking at a 66% bonus to damage).

Overall, nice idea.


The Myrmidon is under powered drone wise atm, Its supposed to be getting a bandwidth buff anyway. And lets face it, the Gila can use a full flight of heavies and thats just a cruiser hull.


Yeah but the Gila can't also mount a double armor repper fit with 6 autocannons in addition to the 5 heavy drones.

That aside, I've always felt that drones and drone boats need to be given some love. I'm not sure about the exact bonuses (in terms of hard numbers) but I like the general concept of the idea.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Alundil
Rolled Out
#8 - 2012-11-13 16:54:50 UTC
I would support this idea as long as it didn't break the subcap max of 5 drones.

Drone users need the luv. We have the same (worse) time to strike issue that missile users have and are generally slow as molasses on top of that because of the gal/amarr armor.

Allowing greater flexibility of drone choices per hull for heavily drone skilled players would be a great thing.

I'm right behind you
Iris Bravemount
Golden Grinding Gears
#9 - 2012-11-13 19:51:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Iris Bravemount
Hakan MacTrew wrote:
When you put it like that, it makes alot more sense. I would say +5% per level of the skill would be fair. Thus allowing a ship with 100mbits base to have 125mbits at level five of this skill.


You got it the other way around. I'm not talking about increasing the ship's bandwidth, but reducing the bandwidth usage of drones. this way, the bonus would apply equally on all hulls.

Jin alPatar wrote:
The 8% number may be a bit off. This would let the Myrmidon use a full flight of heavies instead of the three it can use now. That's a bit steep for a buff. (you're looking at a 66% bonus to damage).


It would go from 316 (before damage modules) with the current max of 2 Ogres, 2 Hammerheads and 1 Hobgoblin to 475 (before damage modules). with 5 Ogres.

It is true that it's a lot. But it comes at the price of having less replacement drones, because the dronebay doesn't change. So it would only have room left for a single light flight (or a single replacement Ogre).

Plus, not every player will have that skill. This is merely a way for very heavily drone skilled players to capitalize on their spent SP.

"I will not hesitate when the test of Faith finds me, for only the strongest conviction will open the gates of paradise. My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity." - Paladin's Creed
Jin alPatar
Entertainment 7wenty
The Burning Contingent Alliance
#10 - 2012-11-13 20:17:25 UTC
Iris Bravemount wrote:
Hakan MacTrew wrote:
When you put it like that, it makes alot more sense. I would say +5% per level of the skill would be fair. Thus allowing a ship with 100mbits base to have 125mbits at level five of this skill.


You got it the other way around. I'm not talking about increasing the ship's bandwidth, but reducing the bandwidth usage of drones. this way, the bonus would apply equally on all hulls.

Jin alPatar wrote:
The 8% number may be a bit off. This would let the Myrmidon use a full flight of heavies instead of the three it can use now. That's a bit steep for a buff. (you're looking at a 66% bonus to damage).


It would go from 316 (before damage modules) with the current max of 2 Ogres, 2 Hammerheads and 1 Hobgoblin to 475 (before damage modules). with 5 Ogres.

It is true that it's a lot. But it comes at the price of having less replacement drones, because the dronebay doesn't change. So it would only have room left for a single light flight (or a single replacement Ogre).

Plus, not every player will have that skill. This is merely a way for very heavily drone skilled players to capitalize on their spent SP.



Hmmm. That seems more in line than I'd initially though. Let's compare it to other weapon systems.

With Railguns going from Dual 250mm to 425mm increases damage by ~31%. The drone increase listed above is ~50% increase.

If that were the whole story I'd stand by my original assertion that the buff of 8% is a bit high. But taking into account the still limited drone bay size and the basic disadvantages of using drones as primary DPS, 50% doesn't sound as unreasonable anymore.

thanks
Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-11-13 20:38:21 UTC
This is the best idea I have heard in awhile, actually. As a heavily skilled droneboat pilot, this skill would be awesome. Do want!

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik
basjah
Ascendance
Goonswarm Federation
#12 - 2012-11-29 21:29:45 UTC
I would vote for this idea , same pretty much a fan of drones Cool
Lin Gerie
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-11-29 23:16:43 UTC
+1
As a drone user I really like this. It has a hefty requirement to even get and a high multiplier.

A lot of people seem to be saying the current value is too much of a buff, but I think it is perfect the way the game is now. This is because ships will still be limited to drone bay sizes. So yes while a myrm will now be able to with lengthy training use 5 heavy drones as opposed to 3 that also means that it wont have the same versatility or ability to replace drones as it only has 25m3 of drone space left in its bay if you choose to field 5 heavy drones.

Furthermore if you are a drone pilot and train to be just that you deserve the boost in dps from being able to field heavier drones if you can spare the space.

The only problem I can see is if CCP decide to give a module or rig that works on drone bay space this might become too powerful, but that is a mighty if.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-12-10 23:40:42 UTC
I'd definitely like to see more drone skills in this game, as well as more drone modules (which have been getting some love recently). But I cannot support this, because having tons of drones on the field in a fleet fight is already a significant bandwidth issue, and I'm talking about real-life bandwidth. It's also a huge graphical issue unless everyone who takes part in large fleet fights turns off drone models, which in itself is frustrating because you either have to turn them on again between fleets (and never forget to turn them off), or you have to accept that these drones are invisible all the time.

I'd like to see the number of drones fielded by non-drone-oriented ships cut down a lot, and have the drones themselves be beefed up instead. Drone boats could then lose turret slots and have higher drone DPS. But any skill or module upgrades for drones should focus on the individual drones and not on allowing more of them. Please consider what I have said here!

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Mund Richard
#15 - 2012-12-11 01:01:42 UTC
Iris Bravemount wrote:
It would obviously have no effect on hulls on which bandwidth = drone bay.

Iris Bravemount wrote:
It is true that it's a lot. But it comes at the price of having less replacement drones, because the dronebay doesn't change. So it would only have room left for a single light flight (or a single replacement Ogre).


In all honesty, before reading those two solid arguments, it was a clear no from me.

Still a no, because it would be quite situational skill for just a few ships (and not helping on ships like Ishtar/Domi), too easily a wasted skill on the rest, but at least it was an intriguing idea.

The 8% does sound a bit high maybe.
With 5%, you can upgrade a goblin into a hammer on the Ishkur, not quite sure if it's worth it, and your full flight of spares goes down to 4 spare goblins - not really good.
Algos: from 35 mbps it would go to 43.75 which is pretty much 40, while keeping a bay of 60, a goblin turns into a hammer, and a spare goblin is lost.
Myrm buffed to 100 mbps (if that happens in tiericide) would be a clear winner, even though quite possible bay limitations would hurt it.
Domi+navy/Ishtar/Gila/Rattlesnake unaffected, as are any 125mbps battleships with a larger bay (amarr navy, everyone's favorite schizophrenic scrapheap, the Phoon).

Would rather see a hull bonus to the odd ships where it's good.
Maybe something like "Role Bonus: +5mbps per level of drone interfacing" for the myrm.
But then it would be pretty much the same as giving it 125 to start with according to balancing, so why bother?

Still a no from me, sorry.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.