Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Thanks for the general agreement. You're correct when you say it isn't hard to deal with it, however, since you live in your sov space, you can't really go elsewhere. I wouldn't foresee this being used in home systems per say, seeing as how the home alliance may want to take out a cloaky gang of their own :) I personally imagine it being used in cyno jammed mining systems and CSAA systems. Honestly, as far as ratting systems go, I would be surprised to see something like this there, unless it was a -1.0 system with a ton of belts that literally everyone in an alliance ratted in.

Another thing about this, it could actually give the ratters or miners a false sense of security. Not to mention the lulz that would ensue when a cloaky t3 or hauler attempted to run a gate camp in a cloak jammed system :) They'd be doing it to themselves :)

Probes that can only detect cloaked ships would be a better counter to cloaked ships than a module that prevents cloaking across the entire solar system. A POS module that prevents ships from cloaking while on grid with the POS would be interesting though.

@Nikk Narrel: While I don't like Local Intel myself, that isn't the topic for discussion here. I also never said that AFK cloaking was a problem, in fact, many times I've said I have no problem with the cloaking mechanic as it is.

Also, I have nothing against PVP pilots hunting for targets, quite the contrary.

@Kirkwood Ross: Probes that detect cloaked ships would entirely negate the point of cloaking. That is the last thing I ever want to see, and I don't believe CCP has any plans to implement such a thing.

Once again, many people have a knee-jerk reaction because they get caught up on the whole AFK Cloaking thing. They either think I'm trying to nerf cloaking (which I'm not) or that I'm a ratter who can't stand AFK Cloakers (which I'm also not).

The truth is, people have said for years that they want something to deal with AFK Cloaking. What I'm saying is fine, you get what you wished for, but it's going to cost you dearly, and it's going to be a double edged sword. You won't get a convenient pulse system that lets you stay cloaked but not a hostile, or probes that let you find cloaked ships, or any of that nice, safe, bull-crap. Instead, you get an inconvenient, and expensive system that affects you as much as anyone else.

We have a knee jerk reaction because terrible little carebears like you keep making idiotic suggestions that massively nerf legitimate activities, undermine the entire point of several class of ship, or outright destroy entire sectors of space (wormholes).

We're also rather sick of how utterly dishonest the little nullbears are. You can deny being a cowardly little carebear all you like, and repeatedly yell that you're not trying to turn nullsec into your own personal 100% risk free iskhole. The problem is every single thing you say is at odds with that.

Your idea is not some kind of compromise between the two sides, again you're being dishonest. A sov module that would prevent all cloaks is extremely biased in favour of the residents, as they have pos shields and outposts to sit in with absolute safety. Again, it's all about a risk-averse carebear trying to get rid of threats to himself.

At least carebears in highsec have the stones to just admit they are risk averse, and are willing to play in a way which suits them, rather lying about what they are and instead making "suggestions" to CCP to allow them have their cake and eat it too.

You're real cute you know that? Please, allow me to retort, and do control that rage induced knee spasm you have going there. Also, please refrain from talking about me like you know me.

-Nothing about this nerfs cloaking, in fact, cloaking altogether stays the same.

-Nothing about this has anything to do with wormholes.

-I don't care about POS shields and outposts, they are the ones that pay for the space after all, if they want to run to a POS then so be it. Maybe you should bring a small gang and camp the gate instead, then every time they try to get eyes, you kill them, because hey, they can't watch you cloaked!

-I'm not risk averse, actually I look forward to the chaos this would sow. Just think how annoyed those "nullbears" would be if you simply AFK cloaked next door to their incredibly expensive Cloak Jammed system, and killed everything that tried to come through. Also, think how funny it will be when one of those systems gets attacked, had it not been jammed, they might have been able to launch a bomber attack, but oops, they jammed it, so bombers get murdered.

Except it does nerf cloaking. As we've said, afk cloaking is a way to devalue local. Your suggestion removes that ability, aka it is a nerf.

Your suggestion specifically has nothing to do with wormholes, but some of your fellow carebear scum have made suggestions (countless times before) that would - such as probes, or a specific ship, that would be able to find cloaked ships.

As for not caring about pos and outposts... I don't care if you care or not. The fact of the matter is residents have those things which at the very, very least provide them somewhere to just sit. You want to remove your enemies ability to even sit in your system. Typical carebear entitlement if you ask me.

You ARE risk averse, that is why you are making suggestions that would provide you, as a resident in your little system, with bigger benefits and which would hurt anyone who ventures into your little pocket of boring space and literally does nothing because he went AFK, just to mess with the local list. Your suggestion of people sitting in the next door system is just more carebear dishonesty. Your sole concern is making your system 100% safe for you to PVE in - it doesn't matter if someone is next door, because that's next door. You're not going next door. You're PVEing here, and "here", if you have your way, would be 100% safe.

Again, with the generalities, you don't know me or what I'm about, don't assume you do or that you understand my motives. AFK Cloaking doesn't bother me, if it did, I would be like the legion of others wanting some kind of probes to find cloakers or a pulse to decloak people. Any dislike that I do have of AFK cloaking would stem from the fact that this game should not reward inactivity, not dislike of the psychological effect of the "activity."

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Local is an issue, I agree, but this topic isn't about local. If you want my opinion on local, then here it is:

Local should stay the way it is for high-sec, and low-sec.

For null-sec, local should be the same as wormhole space.

For Sov-Null it should be the same as wormhole space, with the exception that a fairly cheap, but easily destroyable module (that cannot be anchored near a POS) should be deploy-able that returns the regular local (again, for both sides, not simply the defender). It should also increase the upkeep bill (only slightly though, it should be financially feasible to deploy in any and all SOV systems, and the module should be fairly easy to replace once destroyed.) Destruction of the module should only take about 10 minutes or so for a small (less than 10) pilot gang consisting of HACs.

You cannot address the reaction to something and not also address what the reaction is to.

AFK Cloaking is quite specific in being a reaction to Local Chat intel.

Noone cares about AFK Cloaking in a wormhole, specifically because there is no local to counter. Noone cares if you are AFK and cloaked.

It affects Null systems because PvE pilots there want to avoid risk, and local is warning them of potential risk.
The ONLY thing AFK Cloaking projects is risk, and it can only be done when local reports the cloaked vessel as being present.

Therefore:
This cannot be separated from local.
Risk avoidance using local is always the topic, when AFK Cloaking is described as a problem.

I think you read the first sentence and then your mind lost it's focus. If you had read on, you would have seen that I agree with you whole-heartedly. I think CCP would agree with us on this as well, or at least they used to. One thing I will say about the no-local business, is that it would make the game seem a lot more lonely and barren.

Not at all, I am quite focused.

Allow me to clarify:
You are creating the potential for risk management that is not balanced.
Local chat in these systems will have no counter to balance them. PvE pilots who are mining / ratting / missioning will have absolute control over risk, since they will be able to use brute force tactics to guard with.

If you cannot cloak, you cannot gather intel effectively.
We are not about catering to the biggest group like that, which is what covert and black ops is the counter for.

The smaller force never uses brute force, they use guerrilla tactics.
The bigger force of course tries to force them to use the tactics that favor them, obviously catering to their size.

Balance is not served by allowing larger forces the ability to deny smaller forces appropriate tactical options.