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CCP No longer adding sandbox?

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#121 - 2012-11-13 11:33:00 UTC
Souisa wrote:


There are already modules in-game that freighter pilots can use to build m3 without hurting their buffer.


This should be good. Name them.
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#122 - 2012-11-13 11:35:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Souisa
baltec1 wrote:
Souisa wrote:


There are already modules in-game that freighter pilots can use to build m3 without hurting their buffer.


This should be good. Name them.


I think there is a rig that increases m3 but reduces armor

o/
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#123 - 2012-11-13 11:52:47 UTC
Souisa wrote:


I think there is a rig that increases m3 but reduces armor


So in short, there isnt.

So you are going to give freighter pilots a worse ship in order to fix what exactly? It cant be choice seeing how we have 29 dedicated ships to chose from.

Souisa
Subhypersonics
#124 - 2012-11-13 11:53:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Souisa
baltec1 wrote:
Souisa wrote:


I think there is a rig that increases m3 but reduces armor


So in short, there isnt.

So you are going to give freighter pilots a worse ship in order to fix what exactly? It cant be choice seeing how we have 29 dedicated ships to chose from.



Let me spell it out for you then

3 Cargohold optimisation rigs will probably be the most used. This ensures optimal M3 for the freighter. It takes a hit to the armor HP but it doesent really matter since its buffer lies in the hull. The low slots can then be used to choose between agility, more m3 or better buffer. Regardless of what is chosen it will impact the ship in a negative way as well, its all give and take. But thats not to say the slower, better tanked freighter will be better than the faster one or vice versa. It all depends on the circumstances

o/
Dasola
New Edens Freeports
#125 - 2012-11-13 11:59:16 UTC
To OP, So you want green pod instead of standard one then? Freighters are designed for one purpose, move large volumes of stuff.. Its not ship meant for battle, so it has no fittings options. Want something stronger? Try Orca and you can fit some tank as well.

Not going to say anything about new ships, havent tested them myself on test server yet.. So cant say are they good or bad...

But dont worry, sand box will get little bit bigger soon enough once ccp gets current work load cleared.

We are Minmatar, Our ship are made of scraps, but look what our scraps can do...
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#126 - 2012-11-13 12:28:44 UTC
Souisa wrote:


Let me spell it out for you then

3 Cargohold optimisation rigs will probably be the most used. This ensures optimal M3 for the freighter. It takes a hit to the armor HP but it doesent really matter since its buffer lies in the hull. The low slots can then be used to choose between agility, more m3 or better buffer. Regardless of what is chosen it will impact the ship in a negative way, of course. But thats not to say the the slower better tanked freighter will be better than the faster one or vice versa. It all depends on the circimstances


So you want to nerf a set of ships which are working perfectly fine for no good reason.
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#127 - 2012-11-13 12:29:45 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Souisa wrote:


Let me spell it out for you then

3 Cargohold optimisation rigs will probably be the most used. This ensures optimal M3 for the freighter. It takes a hit to the armor HP but it doesent really matter since its buffer lies in the hull. The low slots can then be used to choose between agility, more m3 or better buffer. Regardless of what is chosen it will impact the ship in a negative way, of course. But thats not to say the the slower better tanked freighter will be better than the faster one or vice versa. It all depends on the circimstances


So you want to nerf a set of ships which are working perfectly fine for no good reason.


Afaik a more versatile ship is not a nerf

o/
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#128 - 2012-11-13 12:38:27 UTC
Souisa wrote:

Afaik a more versatile ship is not a nerf


A ship that does the same job only worse is not a more versatile ship.
Matt Grav
Wrath of the Pea
#129 - 2012-11-13 13:05:04 UTC
The OP also thinks that warp core stabilizers should have no penalty associated with their use & that contracts should be Universe wide not just region.

But back on topic. This is actually a duplicate thread (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=166669). The OP already posted his view over in the Features & Ideas area and having lost the argument over there appears to have taken it up here.

Most interesting was that over in his 1st thread he started with "I hate align time of my orca, and i hear its even worse on freighters".
So it appears that the OP doesn't even fly a freighter.
Solid Rock
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#130 - 2012-11-13 13:13:59 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Souisa wrote:

Afaik a more versatile ship is not a nerf


A ship that does the same job only worse is not a more versatile ship.


If CCP applied themselves to it I am sure you could modulize freighters without nerfing them too badly. But doing so would diminish the diversityof our ship lineup. Each freighter is clearly designed to fill a specific role, they are the epitome of specialty tools starkly contrasting the usual.

Even if making freighters modular does not diminish their efficiency it would make the game more bland and uniform.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#131 - 2012-11-13 13:28:48 UTC
Souisa wrote:
Afaik a more versatile ship is not a nerf
Too bad it doesn't make them any more versatile — it only makes them worse at what they're supposed to do.

If all you're after is more HP and less cargo, then might I suggest a Jump Freighter or an Orca?
If all you're after is faster warping, again at the cost of cargo space, then might I suggest the same?
If all you're after is more cargo, then you can't have it because it would break the 1M m³ limit — the Freighter is already your ship of choice.

The versatility you're asking for is already in the game. You just refuse to choose. Instead, you are asking for a nerf to a ship that is already perfectly suited for its role for absolutely no sane reason whatsoever.
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#132 - 2012-11-13 14:17:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Souisa
baltec1 wrote:
Souisa wrote:

Afaik a more versatile ship is not a nerf


A ship that does the same job only worse is not a more versatile ship.


That doesent really make sense. If you lack fitting skills you can always use battle-clinic or other sites like that, or ask in-game for proper freighter fits when the time comes

o/
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#133 - 2012-11-13 14:22:07 UTC
Souisa wrote:

That doesent really make sense. If you lack fitting skills you can always use battle-clinic or other sites like that, or ask in-game for proper freighter fits when the time comes


Only it would be impossible to do. You would not be able to have both the cargo and tank currently available. The ships would be worse than they are now for no good reason.
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#134 - 2012-11-13 14:23:12 UTC
Thats not true. Rigs expand cargo space, at the expense of armor. Freighters main tank or buffer lies in the hull

o/
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#135 - 2012-11-13 14:24:47 UTC
It's been brought up plenty of times & this will always remain true. Give freighters slots & people will just use them to expand their cargohold further.

You could give a freighter a Revelation-like tank & they would still be profitable to gank.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#136 - 2012-11-13 14:31:03 UTC
There are several way to make a freighter more resilient.

They are called skills, hard-wirings, boosters and friends.

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#137 - 2012-11-13 14:32:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Souisa wrote:
Thats not true. Rigs expand cargo space, at the expense of armor. Freighters main tank or buffer lies in the hull
So in other words, what he said was exactly true: you would not be able to have both the cargo and tank currently available. The ships would be worse than they are now for no good reason.

Just because you've shifted from lowslots to rigs does not mean the problem has gone away: they would still have to have their cargo space reduced to compensate for the availability of cargo rigs.

Thus, baseline, they would have the same HP and less cargo than they have now — worse.
Add in cargo rigs and they would have less HP and the same cargo as they have now — worse.
Add in armour rigs and they would have a bit more HP, but with slower speeds and less cargo than they have now — worse.

This is not rocket surgery and it doesn't matter how often and how hard you ignore this basic restriction on freighters: no matter what you do, they would have to be nerfed — massively — if they were given fitting abilities, and the stuff you could fit on them would, at best, only bring them up to their current level, making the whole exercise completely meaningless.

You are asking them to nerf freighters for no good reason.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#138 - 2012-11-13 14:33:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
Lors Dornick wrote:
There are several way to make a freighter more resilient.

They are called skills, hard-wirings, boosters and friends.


The best way to make it more resilient is to double wrap your stuff or use a JF to jump your stuff to Amarr lowsec if travelling from Jita , avoiding popular freighter ganking systems entirely.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#139 - 2012-11-13 14:56:19 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Lors Dornick wrote:
There are several way to make a freighter more resilient.

They are called skills, hard-wirings, boosters and friends.


The best way to make it more resilient is to double wrap your stuff or use a JF to jump your stuff to Amarr lowsec if travelling from Jita , avoiding popular freighter ganking systems entirely.


Or, and this is madness I know, you could not stuff 20 billion into the hold.
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#140 - 2012-11-13 15:05:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Souisa
Tippia wrote:
Souisa wrote:
Thats not true. Rigs expand cargo space, at the expense of armor. Freighters main tank or buffer lies in the hull
So in other words, what he said was exactly true: you would not be able to have both the cargo and tank currently available. The ships would be worse than they are now for no good reason.

Just because you've shifted from lowslots to rigs does not mean the problem has gone away: they would still have to have their cargo space reduced to compensate for the availability of cargo rigs.

Thus, baseline, they would have the same HP and less cargo than they have now — worse.
Add in cargo rigs and they would have less HP and the same cargo as they have now — worse.
Add in armour rigs and they would have a bit more HP, but with slower speeds and less cargo than they have now — worse.

This is not rocket surgery and it doesn't matter how often and how hard you ignore this basic restriction on freighters: no matter what you do, they would have to be nerfed — massively — if they were given fitting abilities, and the stuff you could fit on them would, at best, only bring them up to their current level, making the whole exercise completely meaningless.

You are asking them to nerf freighters for no good reason.


What makes you think it will become worse of? Like i said if you dont have the skills to fit ships just look it up on battle-clinic or ask in-game im sure someone will help. But basically if you need 200k EHP you will need to use reinforced bulkheads or a dcu, or both.

And you are asking for a reason. The freighter basically does every job equally bad except for one, which is hauling 800k m3, worth approx. 1 billion. This is due to the buffer tank it has by default and the insane cargo bay it has by default. But think of all the other scenarios there are. Let me list a few.

Haul 800k m3 30 jumps, go back empty
haul 800k m3 30 jumps, worth only 300 million
Haul 400k m3 1 jump and 230 AU total
Haul 400k m3, worth 2 billion, 10 jumps
Haul 130k m3 30 jumps
And many more

The freighter doesent really do any of those well, but it can do it. With fits, it can be equally good at each. Basically its not being nerfed, its not even being buffed, its just becomming a ship that players can better utilize

o/