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Closed Socket mess
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Sara Mars
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-11-13 01:55:54 UTC
CCP, Do you have an ETA with this closed socket mess? instead of more "Spaceship Barbie Online" can someone club a Dev until they fix this networking issue, FYI all of this started just after the first Inferno patch.
ACE McFACE
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#2 - 2012-11-13 02:28:20 UTC
Sara Mars wrote:
instead of more "Spaceship Barbie Online"

They've barely done anything related to WiS after Incarna so I don't know what this is about. But with the closed socket thing it is a bit annoying but I don't think its happened that much.

Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button.
BoSau Hotim
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
#3 - 2012-11-13 02:38:48 UTC
As a spaceship barbie I approve OP's message

I'm not a carebear... I'm a SPACE BARBIE!  Now... where's Ken?
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#4 - 2012-11-13 12:44:34 UTC
* Signs *

I too keep having these horrible socket closures. Eve is the only program that manages to kill my internet entirely.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#5 - 2012-11-13 12:48:55 UTC
I upgraded to 30mb internet and it seems better now. It still happens occasionally though.

Oh god.
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#6 - 2012-11-13 13:03:57 UTC
Sara Mars wrote:
CCP, Do you have an ETA with this closed socket mess? instead of more "Spaceship Barbie Online" can someone club a Dev until they fix this networking issue, FYI all of this started just after the first Inferno patch.


Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
* Signs *

I too keep having these horrible socket closures. Eve is the only program that manages to kill my internet entirely.


Then in all seriously you have issues somewhere between your computer and the EvE server cluster.

There are several online resources that tracks the connectivity to the server cluster from several different locations and there has been very few network issues that could be traced to CCP or the network operation.

And if playing EvE triggers a shutdown of your Internet access then your ISP is running broken form of traffic shaping.

Is not much that the people at CCP Operations can do about your individual ISP's ignorance, incompentence or bad luck.

The constructive way to move forward if you have connection issues (apart from first checking eve-offlline or eve server status) is to send a petion stating that you have a connection issue and provide them with as much information about your ISP as possible.

And just as a hint, if you suffer connection issues while there appears to be 20-30k people playing who doesn't, then it's quite probable that the issue is closer to your connection.

(Or that there's a evil hamster in CCP Operations that has taken a personal grudge against you ;))

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
Herr Hammer Draken
#7 - 2012-11-13 13:21:57 UTC
Lors Dornick wrote:
Sara Mars wrote:
CCP, Do you have an ETA with this closed socket mess? instead of more "Spaceship Barbie Online" can someone club a Dev until they fix this networking issue, FYI all of this started just after the first Inferno patch.


Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
* Signs *

I too keep having these horrible socket closures. Eve is the only program that manages to kill my internet entirely.


Then in all seriously you have issues somewhere between your computer and the EvE server cluster.

There are several online resources that tracks the connectivity to the server cluster from several different locations and there has been very few network issues that could be traced to CCP or the network operation.

And if playing EvE triggers a shutdown of your Internet access then your ISP is running broken form of traffic shaping.

Is not much that the people at CCP Operations can do about your individual ISP's ignorance, incompentence or bad luck.

The constructive way to move forward if you have connection issues (apart from first checking eve-offlline or eve server status) is to send a petion stating that you have a connection issue and provide them with as much information about your ISP as possible.

And just as a hint, if you suffer connection issues while there appears to be 20-30k people playing who doesn't, then it's quite probable that the issue is closer to your connection.

(Or that there's a evil hamster in CCP Operations that has taken a personal grudge against you ;))



I have heard this before and I do not buy it. I have played other MMO's like D&D online. I never had a disconnect from that game. Yet I get them all the time from eve. And only since inferno happened. Before that I never was disconnected from eve.
Lots of other people say the same. Unless CCP changed their ISP when they released inferno. Then maybe that would explain it as an isp issue.

So many people all having the same issue happen at the same time, means it is very unlikely that all of us have suddenly fallen prey to all of our local isp's all at the same time. It is more likely that this is a CCP issue or they changed isp or the isp at fault is close to iceland as most everyone's traffic goes thru this isp. Then everyone would be impacted by it. And that is what is happening. NOT all of our local isp's would all develope this same problem at the same time. That is absurd to make that claim.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
Anslo
Scope Works
#8 - 2012-11-13 13:31:15 UTC
The logs show nothing \o/

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#9 - 2012-11-13 14:00:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Lors Dornick
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:


I have heard this before and I do not buy it. I have played other MMO's like D&D online. I never had a disconnect from that game. Yet I get them all the time from eve. And only since inferno happened. Before that I never was disconnected from eve.
Lots of other people say the same. Unless CCP changed their ISP when they released inferno. Then maybe that would explain it as an isp issue.

So many people all having the same issue happen at the same time, means it is very unlikely that all of us have suddenly fallen prey to all of our local isp's all at the same time. It is more likely that this is a CCP issue or they changed isp or the isp at fault is close to iceland as most everyone's traffic goes thru this isp. Then everyone would be impacted by it. And that is what is happening. NOT all of our local isp's would all develope this same problem at the same time. That is absurd to make that claim.


First of all CCP doesn't have one ISP, they have a multilink setup.

Second, the EvE server cluster isn't on Iceland, it's in the UK (in the greater London area if I remember correctly).

And the statement "when so many have the same issue" is a bit strange unless it can be shown on the _independent_ server graphs provided by external services.

There have been issues where serious parts of the player base has been affected, and those issues have been located to issues within the networks of one (or more) of CCP's carriers.

There has also been issues where changes in the actual network protocol used by EvE has triggered "bad traffic rules" in various traffic shaping software.

There's two obvious reasons why people experience this more often with EvE than with other games.
1. There's only one (simplified for practical reasons) server, not several shards split on different continents.
2. EvE Online is a relatively small and niche game seen from the perspective of large carriers and/or providers of shaping software. So it takes someone to actively report an issue, with enough data, for CCP to contact said company and check WTF is coing on.

I don't work for CCP, I can only estimate based on the facts that I can get from the outside.

But I worked in this field for 30+ years so my estimates are based on a substantial amounts of facts and experience.

And believe me, if (or rather when) CCP do mess up their networking, I'll be way up on the barricades ;)

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-11-13 14:10:34 UTC
ACE McFACE wrote:
Sara Mars wrote:
instead of more "Spaceship Barbie Online"

They've barely done anything related to WiS after Incarna so I don't know what this is about. But with the closed socket thing it is a bit annoying but I don't think its happened that much.

Just another ignorant player posting with an alt because they are to scared to post with their main...

Yes the closed socket thing is annoying...I am sure they will fix it as soon as they are able. In the meantime...deal with it like everybody else.

Doesn't happen all that much anyway.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Blind Phew
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-11-13 15:29:37 UTC
Lors Dornick wrote:
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:


I have heard this before and I do not buy it. I have played other MMO's like D&D online. I never had a disconnect from that game. Yet I get them all the time from eve. And only since inferno happened. Before that I never was disconnected from eve.
Lots of other people say the same. Unless CCP changed their ISP when they released inferno. Then maybe that would explain it as an isp issue.

So many people all having the same issue happen at the same time, means it is very unlikely that all of us have suddenly fallen prey to all of our local isp's all at the same time. It is more likely that this is a CCP issue or they changed isp or the isp at fault is close to iceland as most everyone's traffic goes thru this isp. Then everyone would be impacted by it. And that is what is happening. NOT all of our local isp's would all develope this same problem at the same time. That is absurd to make that claim.


First of all CCP doesn't have one ISP, they have a multilink setup.

Second, the EvE server cluster isn't on Iceland, it's in the UK (in the greater London area if I remember correctly).

And the statement "when so many have the same issue" is a bit strange unless it can be shown on the _independent_ server graphs provided by external services.

There have been issues where serious parts of the player base has been affected, and those issues have been located to issues within the networks of one (or more) of CCP's carriers.

There has also been issues where changes in the actual network protocol used by EvE has triggered "bad traffic rules" in various traffic shaping software.

There's two obvious reasons why people experience this more often with EvE than with other games.
1. There's only one (simplified for practical reasons) server, not several shards split on different continents.
2. EvE Online is a relatively small and niche game seen from the perspective of large carriers and/or providers of shaping software. So it takes someone to actively report an issue, with enough data, for CCP to contact said company and check WTF is coing on.

I don't work for CCP, I can only estimate based on the facts that I can get from the outside.

But I worked in this field for 30+ years so my estimates are based on a substantial amounts of facts and experience.

And believe me, if (or rather when) CCP do mess up their networking, I'll be way up on the barricades ;)

I like your answers...
Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#12 - 2012-11-13 17:34:24 UTC
Lors Dornick wrote:


Then in all seriously you have issues somewhere between your computer and the EvE server cluster.

There are several online resources that tracks the connectivity to the server cluster from several different locations and there has been very few network issues that could be traced to CCP or the network operation.

And if playing EvE triggers a shutdown of your Internet access then your ISP is running broken form of traffic shaping.

Is not much that the people at CCP Operations can do about your individual ISP's ignorance, incompentence or bad luck.


So, you're saying its my ISP issue, when this didn't start till after Inferno? So, CCP changing something in the game messed up my ISP??? Also, if it is my ISP, then why does only 1 out of my 3 online chars every get the error at a time? Surely they would all be error'ing if my ISP was dropping the signal.

CCP did something that caused this problem to be a very widespread problem when they released Inferno. They refuse to acknowledge that they had any part in the whole equation. That is the problem.

http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing    < Unified Inventory is NOT ready...
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#13 - 2012-11-13 17:35:54 UTC
Sockets are never closed, they have child safety caps installed so you dont hurt yourselves.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#14 - 2012-11-13 18:12:05 UTC
Lors Dornick wrote:
.......

And if playing EvE triggers a shutdown of your Internet access then your ISP is running broken form of traffic shaping.

....

But eve is the only program that does this shutdown. This would indicate that the eve client or server is doing something specific that is causing the issue, and its something that CCP could change to address the issue.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Barakach
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-11-13 18:40:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Barakach
CCP's datacenter is agnostic from where the data is coming. If the problem is occurring at the datacenter, when it should be affecting everyone, which it is not.

Since this problem is not affecting everyone, this means the problem is somewhere between CCP and you. There is something different between you and CCP than other people.

It could be your computer, it could be your router, it could be your ISP, it could be a peer of your ISP or a peer of a peer, ad infinitum.

I am not saying this problem is not because of some issue with the EvE client, but until the exact problem is identified, there is no hope of fixing it except by blind luck. There are many variables in the system between you and CCP and the problematic variables need to be isolated.

Since CCP does not have access to your computer/network/etc, you need to try your best to help them debug the issue by providing them useful information and CCP needs to try their best to communicate and work with you.
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#16 - 2012-11-13 19:06:24 UTC
Panhead4411 wrote:


So, you're saying its my ISP issue, when this didn't start till after Inferno? So, CCP changing something in the game messed up my ISP??? Also, if it is my ISP, then why does only 1 out of my 3 online chars every get the error at a time? Surely they would all be error'ing if my ISP was dropping the signal.

CCP did something that caused this problem to be a very widespread problem when they released Inferno. They refuse to acknowledge that they had any part in the whole equation. That is the problem.



No, you are special.

CCP decided to implement a special bit of software designed to make your client suffer from disconnects.

Consider yourself honoured to have software designed to annoy you.

Sounds likely ey?

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
Alec Sibbot
Grey Area Operations
#17 - 2012-11-13 19:15:39 UTC
I'm glad I stumbled upon thIs topic. I have been fighting with my ISP over constant disconnects lately. Now that I think about it, it only happens when I am playing EVE. Can someone help me understand how EVE is causing my internet to completely drop?
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#18 - 2012-11-13 19:18:56 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Lors Dornick wrote:
.......

And if playing EvE triggers a shutdown of your Internet access then your ISP is running broken form of traffic shaping.

....

But eve is the only program that does this shutdown. This would indicate that the eve client or server is doing something specific that is causing the issue, and its something that CCP could change to address the issue.


No, now read up on the fundamentally broken idea behind most of traffic filtering and shaping software and you'll learn that their rules are based on qualified guesses on that an IP package might be a certain kind of traffic.

And if that software (that you are paying for thanks to your choice of ISP) regards some IP traffic as 'bad and ebil', they'll start to drop it.

Getting your ISP, who's using that software, to adjust their code so that EvE isn't regarded as 'bad and ebil' isn't trivial, since they've never heard of EvE Online and their software never is wrong, isn't a very simple issue.

Or, come up with any other reason why a small (yes small, even by EVE standards) of users would have connection issues.


CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
Barakach
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-11-13 19:52:36 UTC
A potentially useful command is: pathping www.eveonline.com

This could work on most versions of Windows, but I have only recently discovered this command. It will take multiple samples of the ping to each hop between your and the target. Some hops may have 100% timeouts, but they is typically because some routers are configured to block external pings.

What you are looking for is large variations between min/max/avg and note any packetloss. Any given hop between you and your destination should have a relatively flat response time and no packet-loss. If you get large fluctuations or a hair bit of packet-loss, this may be the cause of the issue.

Ideally, the increment in latency between each hop should be relatively small, except if you're crossing the ocean. Light is only so fast.

When debugging network related issues, testing the stability of ones connection to a destination is the first thing to do.

P.S. This application may take a bit to run, like a few minutes. It likes to sample over time.
Dante Chusuk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2012-11-13 19:59:38 UTC
Pingplotter is also of use and CCP even have a guide for setting it up. I was having issues a month or so ago and it was showing one of the providers between my ISP and TQ. ISP appeared to be aware of these routing issues due to other gamers trying to connect to American servers. Flagged a petition to CCP as one faulting hop was adjacent to CCP hardware and it cleared up a couple of days later (and yes I had visions of an ISP support engineer and CCP network dev taking said third party to a dodgy part of the East End and leaving him there)
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