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The Coming Intaki Union

Author
Gussarde en Welle
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-11-12 17:19:17 UTC
It seems to me that we Intaki need to consider the founding of an Intaki Independence Directorate to address the issue of our eventual independence from both the Federation and the Caldari State and the establishment of our position as a politically neutral state under the protection of CONCORD.

The Gallente military rankles, understandably, at defending our space from the presence of pirates and Caldari special interests because our people seem uninvested in the Federation and reluctant to offer praise. At the same time, Caldari corporations continue to extend their reach into our territory and invest heavily in control of Intaki corporations and leadership. Yet, how can we trust foreigners to safeguard our future?

We can no longer play to both sides. It's time that we bring our native skills and technologies to the galaxy, and assert our independence from both parties in a forceful, yet peaceful way. We should remain as allies and trade partners with the Federation and politically neutral to Caldari interests. We must construct a true Intaki fleet and begin to drive the pirates from Syndicate space so that we can create the necessary and ultimately inevitable Intaki Union!
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#2 - 2012-11-12 17:26:39 UTC
Gussarde en Welle wrote:
It seems to me that we Intaki need to consider the founding of an Intaki Independence Directorate to address the issue of our eventual independence from both the Federation and the Caldari State and the establishment of our position as a politically neutral state under the protection of CONCORD.

The Gallente military rankles, understandably, at defending our space from the presence of pirates and Caldari special interests because our people seem uninvested in the Federation and reluctant to offer praise. At the same time, Caldari corporations continue to extend their reach into our territory and invest heavily in control of Intaki corporations and leadership. Yet, how can we trust foreigners to safeguard our future?

We can no longer play to both sides. It's time that we bring our native skills and technologies to the galaxy, and assert our independence from both parties in a forceful, yet peaceful way. We should remain as allies and trade partners with the Federation and politically neutral to Caldari interests. We must construct a true Intaki fleet and begin to drive the pirates from Syndicate space so that we can create the necessary and ultimately inevitable Intaki Union!


This already exists.
Gussarde en Welle
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-11-12 17:32:17 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Gussarde en Welle wrote:
It seems to me that we Intaki need to consider the founding of an Intaki Independence Directorate to address the issue of our eventual independence from both the Federation and the Caldari State and the establishment of our position as a politically neutral state under the protection of CONCORD.

The Gallente military rankles, understandably, at defending our space from the presence of pirates and Caldari special interests because our people seem uninvested in the Federation and reluctant to offer praise. At the same time, Caldari corporations continue to extend their reach into our territory and invest heavily in control of Intaki corporations and leadership. Yet, how can we trust foreigners to safeguard our future?

We can no longer play to both sides. It's time that we bring our native skills and technologies to the galaxy, and assert our independence from both parties in a forceful, yet peaceful way. We should remain as allies and trade partners with the Federation and politically neutral to Caldari interests. We must construct a true Intaki fleet and begin to drive the pirates from Syndicate space so that we can create the necessary and ultimately inevitable Intaki Union!


This already exists.


Are you talking about the ILF?
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#4 - 2012-11-12 17:33:31 UTC
And parts of it. The Intaki Prosperity Initiative, specifically.
Gussarde en Welle
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-11-12 17:38:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Gussarde en Welle
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
And parts of it. The Intaki Prosperity Initiative, specifically.


I like the IPI and might consider applying to work for them someday. But they are a private corporation supporting largely economic interests and are very tied into working with Caldari corporations. Ultimately, this is not politically neutral as the Federation considers it an act of dissent and corroboration with State interests. I am speaking of an Intaki-only organization supported by the High Council and dedicated to establishing an independent Union, neutral to both Caldari and Federation interests.
Seriphyn Inhonores
Elusenian Cooperative
#6 - 2012-11-12 17:44:56 UTC
Valid points proposed in the original post. I wouldn't confuse the Intaki people to be represented by the Intaki capsuleers. The reason I'm not an outright supporter of this is that the mechanisms exist to pursue prosperity for the Intaki system within the Federation's structure. I would also remind that the Intaki Assembly are not innocent of contributing to the situation, either.

Good luck trying to address these issues during wartime though, where every empire will clamp down on such politics.
Gussarde en Welle
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-11-12 18:09:26 UTC
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
Valid points proposed in the original post. I wouldn't confuse the Intaki people to be represented by the Intaki capsuleers. The reason I'm not an outright supporter of this is that the mechanisms exist to pursue prosperity for the Intaki system within the Federation's structure. I would also remind that the Intaki Assembly are not innocent of contributing to the situation, either.

Good luck trying to address these issues during wartime though, where every empire will clamp down on such politics.


Agreed. The Assembly has played to both sides with impunity.
Sakaane Eionell
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
#8 - 2012-11-12 19:59:12 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Gussarde en Welle wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
This already exists.

Are you talking about the ILF?

And parts of it. The Intaki Prosperity Initiative, specifically.


Gussarde en Welle wrote:
I like the IPI and might consider applying to work for them someday. But they are a private corporation supporting largely economic interests and are very tied into working with Caldari corporations. Ultimately, this is not politically neutral as the Federation considers it an act of dissent and corroboration with State interests. I am speaking of an Intaki-only organization supported by the High Council and dedicated to establishing an independent Union, neutral to both Caldari and Federation interests.


Namas, gentlemen.

The sentiments expressed by the OP are, in many ways, appealing. But I have to say I'm disappointed by the demonstrated lack of understanding about my alliance and my corporation.

To clarify: The Intaki Prosperity Initiative (IPI) is an alliance. The Intaki Liberation Front (ILF) is therefore part of IPI, not the other way around.

As I recently stated elsewhere, IPI is not a Federation-aligned alliance. Neither is it State-aligned, nor aligned to any other empire.

Likewise, ILF is not aligned to any empire either.

Historically, IPI has not had a strong stated political agenda, as it was felt if the alliance took a more general stance we would be able to call more corporations to our banner. Member corporations were therefore free to rally their own political views within the ultimate goal of working toward improving prosperity in the Intaki sovereignty. Alliance leadership has recently been considering whether to revise this stance.

ILF has been a voice within the alliance campaigning for peaceful secession and independence for the Intaki sovereignty for over five years. ILF has often focused primarily on the Federation's part in the poor status of the Intaki sovereignty, but yes, the Intaki Assembly has just as much responsibility to bear for it.

An independent Intaki sovereignty would by definition be neutral to the interests of any empire.

Saying that IPI and/or ILF are "very tied into working with Caldari corporations" is an exaggeration at best. As president of IPI, let me state for the record that our interests are unequivocally our own. IPI and ILF leadership answers to no one but itself.

Yes, IPI and ILF have many Caldari friends who sympathize with our causes. At times they have provided us with assistance; at times we have provided them with assistance. Nevertheless, ILF's campaign for independence should not be misconstrued as a desire to join the Caldari State.

Yes, IPI and ILF also have Gallente friends who sympathize with our causes. Again I will say, at times they have provided us with assistance and vice versa. Nevertheless, ILF does not constitute partisans bent on violent secession from the Gallente Federation.

We also have friends from other empires.

All in all, any work we do with groups outside our organization is undertaken in the spirit of peaceful cooperation and friendship. An independent Intaki sovereignty cannot expect to thrive, or even survive, by being insular. Trade agreements, diplomatic ties, and so on... These are a standard for any sovereign entity.

We do represent a minority. Building ties with groups outside our organization helps bring word of our cause to ears it might not otherwise reach. This in turn increases the minority voice.

Are IPI and ILF Intaki-only organizations? No. This would be an impractical approach to the reality of the Intaki sovereignty. There are people of many ethnicities residing in these systems, and many of these ethnicities are represented by pilots in our membership. Any attempt to ignore or exclude them would be folly at best and blatant racism at worst, and risks alienating the aforementioned groups which have expressed support for us.

Anyone who wishes to support the cause of independence in Intaki should be welcomed.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#9 - 2012-11-12 20:20:44 UTC
My apologies. I had the order of rank of the IPI and the ILF mixed up.

In that case I would suggest that the IPI fufills your needs, Captain En Welle.
Emile Belfleur
Solar Zouaves
#10 - 2012-11-12 22:20:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Emile Belfleur
If enough Intaki actually wish for independence, I think you should have it. It is every people's right to stand alone. Secede with all of Placid if you wish - I, for one, won't oppose it.

But if you do, I wish you would show the common courtesy to close the door behind you and stand or fall on your own merit. Seeking to secede but wishing to remain allies is a lot like filing for a divorce but wanting to remain friends. It's an unreasonable request.

The Federation has already spent, and continues to spend, an absolutely ghastly sum of money shoring up a failed state outside of its own borders - money that could have been spent supporting citizens and enterprises at home. The last thing we need is one more parasitic ally.

So please, if you do leave, have the grace to dismantle the stargates behind you.
Deen Wispa
Sheriff.
United Caldari Space Command.
#11 - 2012-11-12 23:47:41 UTC
Emile Belfleur wrote:


But if you do, I wish you would show the common courtesy to close the door behind you and stand or fall on your own merit. Seeking to secede but wishing to remain allies is a lot like filing for a divorce but wanting to remain friends. It's an unreasonable request.
.


QFT.

High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve .

Kalanaja
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2012-11-13 01:58:40 UTC
Emile Belfleur wrote:
If enough Intaki actually wish for independence, I think you should have it. It is every people's right to stand alone. Secede with all of Placid if you wish - I, for one, won't oppose it.

But if you do, I wish you would show the common courtesy to close the door behind you and stand or fall on your own merit. Seeking to secede but wishing to remain allies is a lot like filing for a divorce but wanting to remain friends. It's an unreasonable request.

The Federation has already spent, and continues to spend, an absolutely ghastly sum of money shoring up a failed state outside of its own borders - money that could have been spent supporting citizens and enterprises at home. The last thing we need is one more parasitic ally.

So please, if you do leave, have the grace to dismantle the stargates behind you.



Parasitic ally! You have a lot of nerve to call the Republic a parasitic ally!
Bataav
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
#13 - 2012-11-13 02:22:58 UTC
Deen Wispa wrote:
Emile Belfleur wrote:

But if you do, I wish you would show the common courtesy to close the door behind you and stand or fall on your own merit. Seeking to secede but wishing to remain allies is a lot like filing for a divorce but wanting to remain friends. It's an unreasonable request.
.

QFT.

I'm almost tempted to make an equally flippant response along the lines of, even if the Intaki did attempt to close the proverbial door behind us, it's likely we'd find a Federal boot jammed in the way. It'd be much the same to the exiled Intaki of the Syndicate who, having found the door apparently slammed behind them, find themselves the victim of Federation interference to this day, as it reaches across borders to ensure nobody attempts to establish a planetary colony or similar settlement...

But I won't.
Emile Belfleur
Solar Zouaves
#14 - 2012-11-13 02:37:42 UTC
Kalanaja wrote:
Parasitic ally! You have a lot of nerve to call the Republic a parasitic ally!


If it's not, why has it spent its entire existence subsisting on handouts from the Federation? Handouts it hasn't even put to good use by spending it on infrastructure, education or on building anything resembling a robust economy. That's a lot of Federation taxpayer money going to complete and utter waste.

Of course, a bloated Federal administration saturated with people who are only too willing to freely give away the money they've been trusted to manage in a responsible way doesn't help the situation one bit. Still, it's high time the Republic took responsibility for paying its own way and seeing to its own welfare.
Gussarde en Welle
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-11-13 02:41:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Gussarde en Welle
Emile Belfleur wrote:

But if you do, I wish you would show the common courtesy to close the door behind you and stand or fall on your own merit. Seeking to secede but wishing to remain allies is a lot like filing for a divorce but wanting to remain friends. It's an unreasonable request.


The Intaki people and the Federation were never married, Msr. Belfleur, nor did we ever ask for such an arrangement. We made our alliance long before the rise of space piracy and the metastic crime waves we see today. Never forget that the Secession war fought between the Federation and the State was a result of Caldari hardheadedness and tendency to conspire and the Federation's inability to find creative peacemaking solutions, not from a genuine desire of the Caldari people to establish independence. If we stabilized the Syndicate systems, fresh and vital new trade could be brought into the Federation's hands and a vital bulwark against the lawlessness pervasive in the western reaches could be established.


Kalanaja wrote:

Parasitic ally! You have a lot of nerve to call the Republic a parasitic ally!


Indeed. Msr. Belfleur's comments must fall hard on Matari ears. Ouch. I disagree that the Matari are parasitic. They are in a state of transition, and they call upon allies who believe in democracy, openness and freedom to support them. The Matari are an investment in our future.
Gussarde en Welle
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-11-13 02:49:05 UTC
Bataav wrote:
Deen Wispa wrote:
Emile Belfleur wrote:

But if you do, I wish you would show the common courtesy to close the door behind you and stand or fall on your own merit. Seeking to secede but wishing to remain allies is a lot like filing for a divorce but wanting to remain friends. It's an unreasonable request.
.

QFT.

I'm almost tempted to make an equally flippant response along the lines of, even if the Intaki did attempt to close the proverbial door behind us, it's likely we'd find a Federal boot jammed in the way. It'd be much the same to the exiled Intaki of the Syndicate who, having found the door apparently slammed behind them, find themselves the victim of Federation interference to this day, as it reaches across borders to ensure nobody attempts to establish a planetary colony or similar settlement...

But I won't.


No, please do. I think this is a critical point germane to what I am trying to say. The Syndicate systems need to be addressed by the High Council and the Assembly sometime in the next decade.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#17 - 2012-11-13 02:57:16 UTC
Bataav wrote:
It'd be much the same to the exiled Intaki of the Syndicate who, having found the door apparently slammed behind them, find themselves the victim of Federation interference to this day


This might possibly have to do with cases of illegal Syndicate activity within the Federation.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.

Emile Belfleur
Solar Zouaves
#18 - 2012-11-13 04:06:42 UTC
Gussarde en Welle wrote:
The Intaki people and the Federation were never married, Msr. Belfleur, nor did we ever ask for such an arrangement. We made our alliance long before the rise of space piracy and the metastic crime waves we see today. Never forget that the Secession war fought between the Federation and the State was a result of Caldari hardheadedness and tendency to conspire and the Federation's inability to find creative peacemaking solutions, not from a genuine desire of the Caldari people to establish independence. If we stabilized the Syndicate systems, fresh and vital new trade could be brought into the Federation's hands and a vital bulwark against the lawlessness pervasive in the western reaches could be established.


I actually don't begrudge the Caldari their decision to leave at all. They were perfectly within their rights to do so, for whichever reason, and it reflects badly on the rest of us that we wouldn't let them do so without a fight. Still, it's hard to change the past.

I do take issue with their decision to come back, of course. Once that disastrous secession war was over, neither one of us had any business speaking to the other party ever again. Of course, neither one of us had enough sense to actually resist doing so, and so we have the current, seemingly unsolvable, conflict.

It's the same with trade. Domestic trade is good, of course. Foreign trade is almost always unnecessary, with disadvantages that far outweigh the benefits. There's not a single political entity of note in New Eden that doesn't have the resources, manpower and technology to become self-sufficient and remain so indefinitely, should they wish it.

Most of this cluster's troubles can be attributed to intrinsically incompatible cultures insisting on continuing to interact with each other. The Jove seem to be the only ones with the right idea.

Gussarde en Welle wrote:
Indeed. Msr. Belfleur's comments must fall hard on Matari ears. Ouch. I disagree that the Matari are parasitic. They are in a state of transition, and they call upon allies who believe in democracy, openness and freedom to support them. The Matari are an investment in our future.


It's an investment in their future, not ours. They should take responsibility for it themselves.
Gussarde en Welle
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2012-11-13 07:56:35 UTC
Emile Belfleur wrote:


I actually don't begrudge the Caldari their decision to leave at all. They were perfectly within their rights to do so, for whichever reason, and it reflects badly on the rest of us that we wouldn't let them do so without a fight. Still, it's hard to change the past.

I do take issue with their decision to come back, of course. Once that disastrous secession war was over, neither one of us had any business speaking to the other party ever again.


With all due respect, Msr. Belfleur, your personal life sounds like it's tumultuous, painful, and full of burnt bridges. Sometimes there is much to learn from relationships that have changed. They can be mutually beneficial, given enough flexibility. Enlightenment cannot be obtained if one clings desperately to the past.
Emile Belfleur
Solar Zouaves
#20 - 2012-11-13 16:35:52 UTC
Gussarde en Welle wrote:
With all due respect, Msr. Belfleur, your personal life sounds like it's tumultuous, painful, and full of burnt bridges. Sometimes there is much to learn from relationships that have changed. They can be mutually beneficial, given enough flexibility. Enlightenment cannot be obtained if one clings desperately to the past.


My personal life is very pleasant, actually, and doesn't contain a single burned bridge as far as I'm aware. This is in no small part, I believe, due to the fact that I'm selective about which bridges I build and cross in the first place. I'm not in the habit of forming relationships that I'm likely to have to terminate in the future, which is more than can be said about the Federation itself.

As for your advice about not clinging to the past, that's an easy philosophy to hold while your own past and your own traditions are still alive and strong. The Ida is in no danger of dying out anytime soon. In contrast, the memory of Garoun fades with every passing day. Ironically, it's the very openness of the old Garoun faith and way of life that has left it open to pollution and carried it to the brink of destruction.

I am lucky to have been born and raised in Solitude, where our own culture is still valued, but it's quickly becoming the only place left. We look at the central Federation, and we see our culture forgotten and in shambles. We see Gallente youths tattooing Minmatar symbols on their bodies as cheap political or even fashion statements. We see Gallente people studying the Ida, or Achuran meditation techniques...even young Gallente artists and entertainers, cultural idols, proudly proclaiming themselves to be Sani Sabik. We see the writing on the wall. There's a reason we named our region the way we did.

Can you really blame the few of us who still cherish our past for being protective of it?
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