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The obnoxious mentality of human kind..

Author
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#61 - 2012-11-13 00:01:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Mars Theran
digitalwanderer wrote:
Webvan wrote:



]That's what we have Kepler for. Kepler orbits the sun, takes large samples, many stars at once, not just one at a time any longer. That's for finding large bodies orbiting stars, yet a dyson sphere would be more obvious even to ground based observation as it's more or less encasing a star. Keplers job is to seek out planets, but it's much like seeing an ant on the fender of a moving car from miles away. Wobble may say something regarding a star having an orbiting body, but it looks for such planets passing between the sun and the satellite, which is very brief and may only be observed once between very long durations. No source, I'm working from memory, but confident this is correct and timely. But yes, five years ago, one at a time, but no longer the case.



You do realise that such wobbles can be extremely small where the star moves a couple of centimeters per second, and are observed from light years away.....Even if you take a big sample of stars at the same time, it still takes months to be sure if there are planets orbiting those stars and what mass and distance to those planets need to be to provoke that wobble, and how fast it is happening, wich all depends on the size and mass of the stars in question.


If it's a big star, you'll need large planets to make it wobble to any degree we can even detect given the light years worth of distance, and the first planet to be discovered happened in 1997 i believe, and 15 years later, we've discovered less than 1000 planets, so it's a science that takes time and a lot of math equations to be sure of a planets existance.....What that planet is made of is another can of worms to solve given the distance involved.

Quote:
Oh and to address that, that's pretty much bogus. This tends to lead me to believe that you only pull your information from biased sources, such as the type I mentioned above regarding such thing as the narrow minded academia types that really disregard science for their own form of religion (to expand and put more bluntly from what I've said). Really, a lot of these science purists practice their own form of religion, while science (or their psudoscience) is just a means to an end. After all the nature of man is rebellion, or we would not need government or self-government entities.

All major religions (those God based rather than self-based) believe and accept alien life. Catholics, Muslims and Christian to name three of the majors as an example. Catholics are very big into searching the sky, actually, for many centuries. Muslims as well, including some mothership of somesort hanging around earth. Christians believe in alien life as well, though more extradimensional based, but still purely alien to this world nonetheless.

Really what shakes up these pseudoscience elitists I think is the prospect that the verse (-universe) is digital and not analog. While they continue to beat their heads against the wall over something from nothing regarding the big-bang (big bang theory) while digging for millions if not billions of missing links to no avail (plural). Digital of course introduces answers to that, on many levels, yet it confirms actual extra terrestrial inelegance beyond our understanding, a "creator" if you will. Am vs. Not. 1 vs. 0. Digital. I Am that I Am = on as opposed to off. A conundrum for self-religion, and obviously balked at when digital was first proposed yet now gaining more understanding and to the basis of our existence, terrestrial and extraterrestrial.



That's why it was heresy to state the earth was round and not flat, or that it wasn't the center of the universe as the catholic church says it was....Heck even today they still don't allow women to be priests, so that gives you a good idea on how up to date the catholic religion is.

I can't say for the other religions since i don't know enough about them, but muslims can be pretty strict if they follow the charia word for word, while other allows some exeptions like allow women to roam the streets without needing a chaperon and even vote in elections( blasphemy i know), and even then they're covered head to toe.


Religions aren't something i follow much as you've probably figured and science at least needs verifiable proof beyond any doubt,in order to make any observation accepted.


That wobble can be caused by any number of factors, not the least of which is the distortion of light emanating from that star in the distance between. Other factors may include the core, magnetic fields, planetary bodies within the Corona, gases and particles in the space between the viewer and the star, or large planets orbiting the star within a certain proximity as suggested.

That last bit is a little to ambiguous to address properly. Digital vs. Analog What? ..wtf sort of nonsense is that? The binary system was created by man and doesn't truly mirror anything in nature; nature is more complex and far more capable than that meager creation.

When I think of Digital and Analog, I think of a watch.

Motherships, watching the sky for alien life, etc.. ? Not that I ever heard of. There are stars in the sky, ancient peoples used to associate them with spirits, celestial beings, and also with astrology. Mystical stuff, seeing the future, predicting catastrophes and major events, and so on. Mostly based in myth, legend, and the belief in what are essentially extra-dimensional beings.

I don't see how that equates to Aliens in Spaceships, though I'm not arguing that it is impossible we have never had such visit our world. Certainly, history leaves some indication in certain cultures that something landed here. It may however have been a boat and a more ancient civilization than the ones who were visited while still carrying sticks and living in huts.

No idea.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#62 - 2012-11-13 01:27:15 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:
digitalwanderer wrote:
Webvan wrote:



]That's what we have Kepler for. Kepler orbits the sun, takes large samples, many stars at once, not just one at a time any longer. That's for finding large bodies orbiting stars, yet a dyson sphere would be more obvious even to ground based observation as it's more or less encasing a star. Keplers job is to seek out planets, but it's much like seeing an ant on the fender of a moving car from miles away. Wobble may say something regarding a star having an orbiting body, but it looks for such planets passing between the sun and the satellite, which is very brief and may only be observed once between very long durations. No source, I'm working from memory, but confident this is correct and timely. But yes, five years ago, one at a time, but no longer the case.



You do realise that such wobbles can be extremely small where the star moves a couple of centimeters per second, and are observed from light years away.....Even if you take a big sample of stars at the same time, it still takes months to be sure if there are planets orbiting those stars and what mass and distance to those planets need to be to provoke that wobble, and how fast it is happening, wich all depends on the size and mass of the stars in question.


If it's a big star, you'll need large planets to make it wobble to any degree we can even detect given the light years worth of distance, and the first planet to be discovered happened in 1997 i believe, and 15 years later, we've discovered less than 1000 planets, so it's a science that takes time and a lot of math equations to be sure of a planets existance.....What that planet is made of is another can of worms to solve given the distance involved.

Quote:
Oh and to address that, that's pretty much bogus. This tends to lead me to believe that you only pull your information from biased sources, such as the type I mentioned above regarding such thing as the narrow minded academia types that really disregard science for their own form of religion (to expand and put more bluntly from what I've said). Really, a lot of these science purists practice their own form of religion, while science (or their psudoscience) is just a means to an end. After all the nature of man is rebellion, or we would not need government or self-government entities.

All major religions (those God based rather than self-based) believe and accept alien life. Catholics, Muslims and Christian to name three of the majors as an example. Catholics are very big into searching the sky, actually, for many centuries. Muslims as well, including some mothership of somesort hanging around earth. Christians believe in alien life as well, though more extradimensional based, but still purely alien to this world nonetheless.

Really what shakes up these pseudoscience elitists I think is the prospect that the verse (-universe) is digital and not analog. While they continue to beat their heads against the wall over something from nothing regarding the big-bang (big bang theory) while digging for millions if not billions of missing links to no avail (plural). Digital of course introduces answers to that, on many levels, yet it confirms actual extra terrestrial inelegance beyond our understanding, a "creator" if you will. Am vs. Not. 1 vs. 0. Digital. I Am that I Am = on as opposed to off. A conundrum for self-religion, and obviously balked at when digital was first proposed yet now gaining more understanding and to the basis of our existence, terrestrial and extraterrestrial.



That's why it was heresy to state the earth was round and not flat, or that it wasn't the center of the universe as the catholic church says it was....Heck even today they still don't allow women to be priests, so that gives you a good idea on how up to date the catholic religion is.

I can't say for the other religions since i don't know enough about them, but muslims can be pretty strict if they follow the charia word for word, while other allows some exeptions like allow women to roam the streets without needing a chaperon and even vote in elections( blasphemy i know), and even then they're covered head to toe.


Religions aren't something i follow much as you've probably figured and science at least needs verifiable proof beyond any doubt,in order to make any observation accepted.


That wobble can be caused by any number of factors, not the least of which is the distortion of light emanating from that star in the distance between. Other factors may include the core, magnetic fields, planetary bodies within the Corona, gases and particles in the space between the viewer and the star, or large planets orbiting the star within a certain proximity as suggested.

That last bit is a little to ambiguous to address properly. Digital vs. Analog What? ..wtf sort of nonsense is that? The binary system was created by man and doesn't truly mirror anything in nature; nature is more complex and far more capable than that meager creation.

When I think of Digital and Analog, I think of a watch.

Motherships, watching the sky for alien life, etc.. ? Not that I ever heard of. There are stars in the sky, ancient peoples used to associate them with spirits, celestial beings, and also with astrology. Mystical stuff, seeing the future, predicting catastrophes and major events, and so on. Mostly based in myth, legend, and the belief in what are essentially extra-dimensional beings.

I don't see how that equates to Aliens in Spaceships, though I'm not arguing that it is impossible we have never had such visit our world. Certainly, history leaves some indication in certain cultures that something landed here. It may however have been a boat and a more ancient civilization than the ones who were visited while still carrying sticks and living in huts.

No idea.


Give a tl;dr version for those of us with simple minds that are ea SQUIRREL!!!!

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny

digitalwanderer
DW inc
#63 - 2012-11-13 01:42:01 UTC  |  Edited by: digitalwanderer
It's hard to say if aliens ever landed here, but i am fascinated by the mayan calendar and how precise it is on both the short count and long count aspects, as even the modern calendar we use has a leap year every 4 years where february 29th exists to keep it precise...The mayan calendar doesn't need that at all.


The screwed up part is that the short count is where all the planets in our solar system are perfectly aligned in a straight line( every 5000 years), and the long count is when the solar system goes from the north hemisphere of our galaxy to the soulthern hemisphere( or vice versa of course), every 26 000 years.....How the heck the mayans knew these things hundreds of years ago is beyond me.


The same goes for the geometric perfection that is the pyramides in egypt, wich are huge in size and was obviously a pain to build such a large structure that even todays engineers and architects aren't quite sure now they did it, never mind being restricted to the tools and techniques they had at the time.


Or that city built high up in the mountains( machu pichu), where engineers had to build levies below the city to keep the foundations strong for stones that make up the city, some of wich weigh up to 160 tons....There's more examples out there of course,but it does impress me that these projects were made hundreds and even thousands of years ago, and would never be even attempted these days, even with all the modern technology we have.
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#64 - 2012-11-13 02:06:14 UTC
digitalwanderer wrote:
It's hard to say if aliens ever landed here, but i am fascinated by the mayan calendar and how precise it is on both the short count and long count aspects, as even the modern calendar we use has a leap year every 4 years where february 29th exists to keep it precise...The mayan calendar doesn't need that at all.


The screwed up part is that the short count is where all the planets in our solar system are perfectly aligned in a straight line( every 5000 years), and the long count is when the solar system goes from the north hemisphere of our galaxy to the soulthern hemisphere( or vice versa of course), every 26 000 years.....How the heck the mayans knew these things hundreds of years ago is beyond me.


The same goes for the geometric perfection that is the pyramides in egypt, wich are huge in size and was obviously a pain to build such a large structure that even todays engineers and architects aren't quite sure now they did it, never mind being restricted to the tools and techniques they had at the time.


Or that city built high up in the mountains( machu pichu), where engineers had to build levies below the city to keep the foundations strong for stones that make up the city, some of wich weigh up to 160 tons....There's more examples out there of course,but it does impress me that these projects were made hundreds and even thousands of years ago, and would never be even attempted these days, even with all the modern technology we have.


You mean those people that couldn't even predict their own downfall? Blink

Also no alien with any kind of advanced technology that can observe us for more than 5 minutes is going to be stupid enough to land here

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny

digitalwanderer
DW inc
#65 - 2012-11-13 02:16:58 UTC
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:


You mean those people that couldn't even predict their own downfall? Blink



True but no civilization in history ever predicts their downfall either, so it's not just the mayans...P


Quote:

Also no alien with any kind of advanced technology that can observe us for more than 5 minutes is going to be stupid enough to land here



Depends to be honest as it could be they want our resources and couldn't really care at all for our species, or trying to improve it in the first place....Kinda what humans do to themselves for the last few thousand years when new land is discovered, but someone else is already living there...Lol
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#66 - 2012-11-13 02:31:07 UTC
digitalwanderer wrote:
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:


You mean those people that couldn't even predict their own downfall? Blink



True but no civilization in history ever predicts their downfall either, so it's not just the mayans...P


Quote:

Also no alien with any kind of advanced technology that can observe us for more than 5 minutes is going to be stupid enough to land here



Depends to be honest as it could be they want our resources and couldn't really care at all for our species, or trying to improve it in the first place....Kinda what humans do to themselves for the last few thousand years when new land is discovered, but someone else is already living there...Lol


Point is I'm not taking their advice on when my people will fall....

2nd point, I don't care about our species either...

"Eat the arm to gain their power!" Twisted

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny

Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#67 - 2012-11-13 02:45:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Mars Theran
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
Mars Theran wrote:
..removed stuff..


Give a tl;dr version for those of us with simple minds that are ea SQUIRREL!!!!


tl;dr? I'll give it a go, but I'll have to address each individually as I'm not sure which one you mean. Smile

Wobble: Basically a distortion can occur in space between one object and the next by means of the presence of molecules in the vast vacuum of space between the object viewed and the viewer. The particles or gas refract or bend light in such a fashion that it may not appear to emanate from an exact point of origin.

Also, light has a certain mass, being a form of matter, and it can be influenced by gravitational forces. So if a Neutron star happens to be present near the path of travel between viewer and viewed, the presence of that star may bend light along it's direction of travel. You will still see the object, but it may not be where it appears to be.

There is a place that can be viewed that has a phenomena like the first mentioned. It would probably take some time to google it, so I'll present evidence of the second example instead as that came up quite easily.

Binary language: Being simple, even inferior to other options. This is something I thought of years ago, and one reason why I question the continued use of it. Not without purpose, I still think alternatives would be an improvement.

Think of binary as a single pole light switch. It is either on or off. A 3 way Light switch acts differently, as it can be on or off depending on the position of another switch. Still another consideration, is the difference between a single pole switch and a transistor.

A single pole switch can be thought of as on or off, with one end being positive and the other negative. Still binary. A Transistor on the other hand is sort of like a 3 way switch, in that it has more than one pole. Basically a transistor is either positive-negative-positive or negative-positive-negative. pnp or npn. This is not binary, and can be open or closed depending on various factors while being multi-directional.

It isn't simple to translate this principle into a computer language of course. What of the consideration for neither on or off? Neutral. Negative integers? The possibilities are limited within the scope of this consideration, but they do move beyond simple binary numbers.

At one time computers wouldn't support this sort of complexity, but I think now, they do.

Analyze the structure of an atom. It doesn't consist of only Protons and Neutrons, or Protons and Electrons; in fact, it doesn't even consist solely of Electrons, Neutrons, and Protons, it also consists of a Quark apparently. The structure of atoms is basically understood, and it is very complex in some ways. Even without the Quark, it is governed by atomic mass, structure, and various other factors.

Certainly a lot more complexity than binary, and yet it is structured, consistent, and capable of being understood.

So the basic idea is to move beyond simple on and off values, and towards multi-phasic values. Binary is single phase; to make it more complex, it needs to utilize more than one phase.

I'm not sure that was simplified.

The rest is just speculation. If I had to say anything with some certainty, it would be that Humans today are of two species. Some of us are mixed blood, while others, (the majority), are of the original bloodline that evolved throughout history. Some 45000 years ago, the blood was intermixed, and the other species became extinct.

There was not a lot of difference between these species, but there was enough that they could clearly be defined as being separate from one another with no common ancestry. The other species was migratory with no specific place of origin, though they did exist for a time in the North of Scotland as a secluded group before coming South again and venturing as far as Peru.

Originally, they had migrated Northwards from the Southern tip of Africa, (best guess). and around the Mediterranean Sea through Ethiopia and various other places on their Journey North that carried them to Scotland. Interesting to note, is that Antarctica was originally positioned relatively close to the Southerns tip of Africa and South America, and probably connected to Southern Africa as a land mass.

During some Cataclysmic event, South America separated and moved South to the Southern Polar region where it currently remains. Antarctica used to be a place of lush tropical or sub-tropical vegetation, with fossilized remains to be found there today. What else remains under the ice?

Honestly, I think if you bothered to search there, you would find something interesting.

Not that I suggest tearing it all up in a mad search, but rather a proper surveying and limited samples and excavations. A more ecologically and environmentally friendly search with some care and attention.

History is a convoluted mess. You can't trust it to tell you the honest truth about anything. So many lies and misrepresentations over the centuries. Poorly remembered details, and conveniently falsified reports. Add to that delusional, prophetic, paranoid, drunken, drugged, and otherwise influenced accounts and we have a lot of sorting to find the truth, if ever we do find it.

What you can trust of history, is what it itself tells us, as we bring it out of the ground and analyze the evidence of the past.

edit: Just like to note, a lot of that is pure speculation on my part, based on a few facts I have come across in years past. Nothing to say any of it is connected, or even that the facts I came across were entirely true. Interesting possibility though.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
digitalwanderer
DW inc
#68 - 2012-11-13 02:59:59 UTC  |  Edited by: digitalwanderer
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:


Point is I'm not taking their advice on when my people will fall....

2nd point, I don't care about our species either...

"Eat the arm to gain their power!" Twisted




Well like i mentioned earlier( a couple of pages ago i think), the world is going on a path where it'll become an overpopulated mess in less than 100 years and there's just not enough resources to go around for everyone....Add the massive amounts of money owed by a lot of countries wich will never be paid back, and ever rising pollution levels with climate change being a reality as we already see strange weather in certain parts of the world that were never seen since weather started getting recorded over 100 years ago.


So to say we have some serious challenges ahead of us is putting it mildly to say the least, and yes i remember that quote from the movie when aliens arrived in soulth africa...Blink
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#69 - 2012-11-13 03:02:35 UTC
digitalwanderer wrote:
It's hard to say if aliens ever landed here, but i am fascinated by the mayan calendar and how precise it is on both the short count and long count aspects, as even the modern calendar we use has a leap year every 4 years where february 29th exists to keep it precise...The mayan calendar doesn't need that at all.


The screwed up part is that the short count is where all the planets in our solar system are perfectly aligned in a straight line( every 5000 years), and the long count is when the solar system goes from the north hemisphere of our galaxy to the soulthern hemisphere( or vice versa of course), every 26 000 years.....How the heck the mayans knew these things hundreds of years ago is beyond me.


The same goes for the geometric perfection that is the pyramides in egypt, wich are huge in size and was obviously a pain to build such a large structure that even todays engineers and architects aren't quite sure now they did it, never mind being restricted to the tools and techniques they had at the time.


Or that city built high up in the mountains( machu pichu), where engineers had to build levies below the city to keep the foundations strong for stones that make up the city, some of wich weigh up to 160 tons....There's more examples out there of course,but it does impress me that these projects were made hundreds and even thousands of years ago, and would never be even attempted these days, even with all the modern technology we have.


It's all easily explained when you reject the idea humans suddenly became civilized 6000 years ago after 100,000 years of not being civilized, and instead accept this race has risen up and been smashed down to the stone age many times. After just 2000 years all visible surface traces of our civilization would disappear. After a few more thousands even the most dedicated archaeologist could spend their entire lives looking and never find a trace.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi

Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#70 - 2012-11-13 03:06:12 UTC
digitalwanderer wrote:
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:


Point is I'm not taking their advice on when my people will fall....

2nd point, I don't care about our species either...

"Eat the arm to gain their power!" Twisted




Well like i mentioned earlier( a couple of pages ago i think), the world is going on a path where it'll become an overpopulated mess in less than 100 years and there's just not enough resources to go around for everyone....Add the massive amounts of money owed by a lot of countries wich will never be paid back, and ever rising pollution levels with climate change being a reality as we already see strange weather in certain parts of the world that were never seen since weather started getting recorded over 100 years ago.


So to say we have some serious challenges ahead of us is putting it mildly to say the least, and yes i remember that quote from the movie when aliens arrived in soulth africa...Blink


I'm from South Africa... went to Johannesburg many a time Big smile

Also I'll be dead by then so I do't give a crap, or carp but I haven't had a goldfish since high school

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny

digitalwanderer
DW inc
#71 - 2012-11-13 03:22:57 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:

It's all easily explained when you reject the idea humans suddenly became civilized 6000 years ago after 100,000 years of not being civilized, and instead accept this race has risen up and been smashed down to the stone age many times. After just 2000 years all visible surface traces of our civilization would disappear. After a few more thousands even the most dedicated archaeologist could spend their entire lives looking and never find a trace.



So if i'm understanding you correctly, we've been thru mutliple civilization periods and got knocked back to the stone age in every one of them?....Who and by what means could tthis be achieved without leaving a trace anywhere?


I mean we've discovered dinosaur bones that are millions of years old afterall.
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#72 - 2012-11-13 03:25:51 UTC
digitalwanderer wrote:
Bane Necran wrote:

It's all easily explained when you reject the idea humans suddenly became civilized 6000 years ago after 100,000 years of not being civilized, and instead accept this race has risen up and been smashed down to the stone age many times. After just 2000 years all visible surface traces of our civilization would disappear. After a few more thousands even the most dedicated archaeologist could spend their entire lives looking and never find a trace.



So if i'm understanding you correctly, we've been thru mutliple civilization periods and got knocked back to the stone age in every one of them?....Who and by what means could tthis be achieved without leaving a trace anywhere?


I mean we've discovered dinosaur bones that are millions of years old afterall.


Damn aliens keep knocking us back.. not this time. This time we have the technology to eat them all, then we'll gain their power Pirate

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny

digitalwanderer
DW inc
#73 - 2012-11-13 04:00:53 UTC
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:


Damn aliens keep knocking us back.. not this time. This time we have the technology to eat them all, then we'll gain their power Pirate




That's what the people from the lost city of atlantis also said....Lol
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#74 - 2012-11-13 04:14:29 UTC
digitalwanderer wrote:
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:


Damn aliens keep knocking us back.. not this time. This time we have the technology to eat them all, then we'll gain their power Pirate




That's what the people from the lost city of atlantis also said....Lol


Well we've advanced since the 70s or whenever that was Pirate

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny

digitalwanderer
DW inc
#75 - 2012-11-13 04:15:43 UTC  |  Edited by: digitalwanderer
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:


I'm from South Africa... went to Johannesburg many a time Big smile

Also I'll be dead by then so I do't give a crap, or carp but I haven't had a goldfish since high school



That's the main problem though, people not caring what is by definition, not a lot of time until we absolutely have to do something about it and the options available aren't exactly pleasant to say the least.....We either have colonies setup on the moon and maybe mars with millions of people in each one, so not exactly small and cheap little things.


We can do what's currently policy in china, wich is 1 child per family and any more sees the parents being heavily fined, but applying this in other countries would be problematic to say the least as it infringes on that little thing called human rights.


With the population living longer because of better medical care, there is the option that once you reach a certain age, it's time to go for euthanasia voluntarily.....Again this is problematic on so many moral and judicial grounds that it would be something not easily accepted.


A good old fashion global war that makes WW1 and WW2 look small and insignificant by comparison, and kills a few billion in total deaths.....I can see this one being more popular given our history, sad to say.


Or a new incurable desease popping up and having the same effect as the war scenario above.
digitalwanderer
DW inc
#76 - 2012-11-13 04:20:53 UTC
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:


Well we've advanced since the 70s or whenever that was Pirate



Lol

It's a few thousand years older to say the least, and we have yet to agree on where the hell was it located anyhow...Ugh
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#77 - 2012-11-13 04:32:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Bane Necran
digitalwanderer wrote:
So if i'm understanding you correctly, we've been thru mutliple civilization periods and got knocked back to the stone age in every one of them?....Who and by what means could tthis be achieved without leaving a trace anywhere


There was a solar flare that happened as recently as 1859 that would have knocked out power across the entire globe and destroyed all our satellites if it were to happen now. With no local food supplies and everyone completely dependent on civilization, that would probably do it. Coincidentally, the Mayans you mentioned had an extremely intimate knowledge of the sun and its cycles. According to the experts, we're supposed to have a solar peak very soon more powerful than anything we've seen before, including the event in 1859. Could that be what it's all about? The Mayan's also didn't figure out anything themselves. They inherited their cosmic knowledge from the Olmec, who probably inherited it from an even earlier source. Another case of past civilizations being more intelligent than more recent ones.

Quote:
I mean we've discovered dinosaur bones that are millions of years old afterall.


We've discovered all kinds of bones of previous humanoids on this planet from millions of years ago, and bones of modern man as far back as 100,000 years ago. That's why i'm using that number. There are people who claim to have found evidence of modern man from much, much, longer ago, and there are geneticists who claim our DNA shows we've been around much longer too, but the scientific establishment is reluctant to consider modern man existing further back than 100,000 years ago. Even if we just go with the commonly accepted belief that modern man has only been around for that long it's still enough time for many civilizations to rise and fall.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi

digitalwanderer
DW inc
#78 - 2012-11-13 04:57:22 UTC  |  Edited by: digitalwanderer
Bane Necran wrote:

There was a solar flare that happened as recently as 1859 that would have knocked out power across the entire globe and destroyed all our satellites if it were to happen now. With no local food supplies and everyone completely dependent on civilization, that would probably do it. Coincidentally, the Mayans you mentioned had an extremely intimate knowledge of the sun and its cycles. According to the experts, we're supposed to have a solar peak very soon more powerful than anything we've seen before, including the event in 1859. Could that be what it's all about? The Mayan's also didn't figure out anything themselves. They inherited their cosmic knowledge from the Olmec, who probably inherited it from an even earlier source. Another case of past civilizations being more intelligent than more recent ones.




Solar flares come in 2 varieties....Positively charged and negatively charged, now the main type needed is one that's the exact opposite of the magnetic field that surrounds the planet, so that it essentially pulls the earth's magentic field along with it and esposes the surface of the planet that is facing the sun at that moment to solar radiation.


Now there's already a satellite that's half way between the earth and the sun to warn us of these solar flares and now big they are and what polarity they have, wich is enough time to turn off the satellites orbiting the earth, but the biggest variatble is that the earth's magnetic field is no longer positive on one side and negative on tthe other, but it's mixed all over the place depending on where you're located, and some seem to theorize that the earth is already in the process of a reversal of the poles right now....I'll try to find a picture of the variations of the magnetic field as they are now.


So with that in mind some areas might be heavily affected by the solar flare and some areas not so much...The ones that basically have the same polarity as the incoming solar flare, as having the same polarity repels and doesn't atract as we all know.


I'll have to read up on previous civilizations, but on a quick browse the olmec apeared about 4500 years ago and dissapeared over 2000 years ago......So there's still 95000 years to cover.


Here's the pciture:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Magnetic_Field_Earth.png
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#79 - 2012-11-13 05:14:29 UTC
digitalwanderer wrote:
Bane Necran wrote:

It's all easily explained when you reject the idea humans suddenly became civilized 6000 years ago after 100,000 years of not being civilized, and instead accept this race has risen up and been smashed down to the stone age many times. After just 2000 years all visible surface traces of our civilization would disappear. After a few more thousands even the most dedicated archaeologist could spend their entire lives looking and never find a trace.



So if i'm understanding you correctly, we've been thru mutliple civilization periods and got knocked back to the stone age in every one of them?....Who and by what means could tthis be achieved without leaving a trace anywhere?


I mean we've discovered dinosaur bones that are millions of years old afterall.


Oldest known Human remains were suggested to be over 190000 years old. That gives plenty of opportunity for the rise and fall of civilizations. Ancient batteries have been found, apparently even complex mechanical devices similar to old timepieces in complexity, and some other things.

Some may be fraudulent of course, and that is to be expected, particularly in this day and age when everyone is trying to run a scam somewhere or spread false information for attention. A 300 million year old fossilized Human footprint? Yep, apparently so, although I do tend to think it's a little bogus.

However, apparently someone has even found Human teeth suggested to be up to 400000 years old. Multiple different Human-like species, potentially common ancestry among some, extinction of all but one. Shared DNA with one in Asia, and another in Europe that can be found in Humans of today. Apparently the root of some Human Auto-immune disorders.

They've discovered a few things since I last viewed any documentaries on it. They're still speculating between various hypothesis however.

Some information and theory on that ancient cataclysm: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/10/071024-tectonics.html
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Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#80 - 2012-11-13 05:15:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Bane Necran
I'm familiar with all that, digitalwanderer, but disagree that solar flares will only impact localized areas. They can be large enough to hit the entire side facing the sun at that moment, and can continue doing so for a day or two. Already this year we've seen a couple x-flares that large, but they were thankfully not Earth facing.

And it doesn't just stop at something as tame as knocking our power out. A solar flare could sterilize everyone on Earth or simply burn them to a crisp when the magnetic field fails. Space is a dangerous place. I think any smart civilization would live inside a planet rather than the surface. Although the scenery would suck.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi