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CCP No longer adding sandbox?

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Speaker4 theDead
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#101 - 2012-11-12 20:56:57 UTC
Matt Grav wrote:
How about trying out the 'mulitplayer' part of MMO. You're suppost to work together with other players to protect your freighter.

and of course carry less in your hold !



In case you missed it, the new "Multi-player aspect of EvE is Isboxer and 10 alts......Oops
Matt Grav
Wrath of the Pea
#102 - 2012-11-12 20:59:11 UTC
Well that should give the OP lots of different fitting options with all those ships Smile
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#103 - 2012-11-12 21:24:20 UTC
Souisa wrote:
I suppose you are in favor of dumbing down then



Being against complexity for the sake of complexity does not mean you're in favor of dumbing down.

Being against worthless items that only get used for laughs, does not mean you're in favor of dumbing down.

Being against ignoring old content that is broken in favor of only something new just because it's new, does not mean you're in favor of dumbing down.
Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#104 - 2012-11-12 21:36:05 UTC
This thread is bad, and the OP should feel ashamed of itself.

Ni.
Siigari Kitawa
New Eden Archery Club
#105 - 2012-11-12 21:44:04 UTC
Long thread.

People used to mine in Apocs and I'm sure some people still do. But since the Covetor is superior because it's actually designed for mining the superior choice is to use a Covetor, for example.

Removing the mining frigates specialties is a little saddening but we're getting new stuff out of it that adds to new options. I will truly miss the little mining Navitas but the new mining frigate looks cute. :)

Need stuff moved? Push Industries will handle it. Serving highsec, lowsec and nullsec - and we do it faster and more reliably than anyone else. Ingame channel: PUSHX
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#106 - 2012-11-12 22:13:14 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

Thanks, though "Carry less in your hold" didn't need repeated so much considering I had already mentioned that one.


For some people it simply cannot be said enough.
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#107 - 2012-11-13 07:22:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Souisa
Dorian Wylde wrote:
Souisa wrote:
I suppose you are in favor of dumbing down then



Being against complexity for the sake of complexity does not mean you're in favor of dumbing down.

Being against worthless items that only get used for laughs, does not mean you're in favor of dumbing down.

Being against ignoring old content that is broken in favor of only something new just because it's new, does not mean you're in favor of dumbing down.


If you think ships shouldnt have fitting options for fear of complexity you must be in favor of dumbing down

o/
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#108 - 2012-11-13 07:25:01 UTC
Lyrrashae wrote:
This thread is bad, and the OP should feel ashamed of itself.

Why?

o/
Herr Hammer Draken
#109 - 2012-11-13 07:26:30 UTC
Souisa wrote:
Hello,

It seems CCP on a large part no longer add sandbox. They make a Mining Frigate. And make it exactly clear what to use it for. They make salvaging drones and making it excactly clear what they are suppose to be used for. Freighters dont have even fitting options.

They have to stay true to the sandbox element else they will be loosing players faster and faster. For example instead of making a mining frigate, just make a frigate with many turret hardpoints and lots of CPU. People will figure out its the best for mining. Instead of making salvaging drones make drones that tractor wrecks to your ship. People will figure out to get a ship that fits a decent amount of salvagers. And there are also plenty of other uses for this tractor drone. Freighters should have fitting flots. Atm. they just gave them plenty of HP, made them slow, and gave them lots of cargo space. It has to be up to players to experiement with fits and make the freighter they want. A slow but tanky one, or a fast but more more easier to gank one etc. Its all about the sandbox element, leaving choice up to the player. Experimenting is part of the game.


Some people forget that ships shooting at ships is only 1 of 137 things to do in EVE.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#110 - 2012-11-13 07:27:11 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Since when does "sandbox" imply "every ship is a Swiss army knife"?

Oh wait, we have lasers that shoot people and lasers that shoot spacerocks. That's not sandboxy enough, let's just have one type of laser that everybody can use to shoot at anything they desire. Why should we have to choose one or the other, it's a sandbox.


Are you suggesting a fittable freigther will become an all purpose vessel?

o/
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#111 - 2012-11-13 07:33:03 UTC
Matt Grav wrote:
How about trying out the 'mulitplayer' part of MMO. You're suppost to work together with other players to protect your freighter.

and of course carry less in your hold !


What are you talking about? :)

o/
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#112 - 2012-11-13 09:53:13 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Souisa wrote:


Are you suggesting a fittable freigther will become an all purpose vessel?


Lets try this again.

If you give the freighter slots then we will end up with a worse ship doing the same job. It will have to take cargo nerf which means I will now have to make twice as many trips as before or fit cargo expanders and carry less isk worth of stuff due to the tanking penalty of the cargo mods meaning, twice as many trips as before. There is nothing to be gained from adding slots to freighters for freighter pilots other than a nerf.
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#113 - 2012-11-13 10:15:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Souisa
baltec1 wrote:
Souisa wrote:


Are you suggesting a fittable freigther will become an all purpose vessel?


Lets try this again.

If you give the freighter slots then we will end up with a worse ship doing the same job. It will have to take cargo nerf which means I will now have to make twice as many trips as before or fit cargo expanders and carry less isk worth of stuff due to the tanking penalty of the cargo mods meaning, twice as many trips as before. There is nothing to be gained from adding slots to freighters for freighter pilots other than a nerf.


No :) You can fit the freighter to be exactly as it is today. And you dont need 200k EHP or 850m3 cargospace when flying empty. Sometimes you need to haul stuff that takes up alot of volume but probably hasnt much value, then you dont need 200k EHP either. Sometimes you might be hauling something that takes up 200/300k m3, but is of much value, then you dont need 850m3 cargo bay, but you do need tank and so on.

The way it is today, you have to always be hauling about 850m3, never have a value of more than 1 billion and never fly empty in order to fully utilize the current "fit" of the freighter.

o/
Solid Rock
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#114 - 2012-11-13 11:02:22 UTC
A fact that seems to be very much overlooked in this strange discussion about the value of adding module slots to freighters is that the very fact that they do not have any forces you to think outside the box.

The fact that you cannot alter the stats of your ship means that you will need to adapt your strategy rather than your fit to meet a given situation. Yes, taking away the ability to fit your ship means that is is essentially easier to understand, but by no means does it simplify the task for which it is designed.

It is not an ideal approach for every ship, but because each freighter is so heavily specialized it works for this particular class of ship.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#115 - 2012-11-13 11:11:18 UTC
Souisa wrote:
Hello,

It seems CCP on a large part no longer add sandbox. They make a Mining Frigate. And make it exactly clear what to use it for. They make salvaging drones and making it excactly clear what they are suppose to be used for. Freighters dont have even fitting options.

They have to stay true to the sandbox element else they will be loosing players faster and faster. For example instead of making a mining frigate, just make a frigate with many turret hardpoints and lots of CPU. People will figure out its the best for mining. Instead of making salvaging drones make drones that tractor wrecks to your ship. People will figure out to get a ship that fits a decent amount of salvagers. And there are also plenty of other uses for this tractor drone. Freighters should have fitting flots. Atm. they just gave them plenty of HP, made them slow, and gave them lots of cargo space. It has to be up to players to experiement with fits and make the freighter they want. A slow but tanky one, or a fast but more more easier to gank one etc. Its all about the sandbox element, leaving choice up to the player. Experimenting is part of the game.


I don't know if maybe you've noticed, but nearly all ships have bonuses to support their intended role. You have the option of fitting them otherwise if you like. The Tempest has 2 offensive and no defensive but if you want to tank it up you're free to do so. It just won't be as tanky as an Abaddon or a Rokh.

How is this frigate any different?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#116 - 2012-11-13 11:16:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Souisa
Solid Rock wrote:
A fact that seems to be very much overlooked in this strange discussion about the value of adding module slots to freighters is that the very fact that they do not have any forces you to think outside the box.

The fact that you cannot alter the stats of your ship means that you will need to adapt your strategy rather than your fit to meet a given situation. Yes, taking away the ability to fit your ship means that is is essentially easier to understand, but by no means does it simplify the task for which it is designed.

It is not an ideal approach for every ship, but because each freighter is so heavily specialized it works for this particular class of ship.


I dont think anyone is saying the freighter doesent work. However there are situations where it is not optimal, but it is still chosen because its the only real option

o/
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#117 - 2012-11-13 11:24:36 UTC
Souisa wrote:


No :) You can fit the freighter to be exactly as it is today.


To keep the cargo you will need cargo mods which reduces the tank.

To keep the tank you would need to have reduced cargo.

Your idea will mean freighters cannot be the same as today. Its a nerf as there are no benefits for the freighter pilot.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#118 - 2012-11-13 11:25:23 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Souisa wrote:


I dont think anyone is saying the freighter doesent work. At least not if you have 800k m3, with approximately 1 billion value that you need to move. However there are situations inbetween where it is not optimal, but it is still chosen because its the only real option


So use one of the other ships more suited for the task then.
CCP Soundwave
C C P
C C P Alliance
#119 - 2012-11-13 11:27:34 UTC
I can assure you that the new frigates are full of sand.
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#120 - 2012-11-13 11:28:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Souisa
baltec1 wrote:
Souisa wrote:


No :) You can fit the freighter to be exactly as it is today.


To keep the cargo you will need cargo mods which reduces the tank.

To keep the tank you would need to have reduced cargo.

Your idea will mean freighters cannot be the same as today. Its a nerf as there are no benefits for the freighter pilot.


Freighters primary defence is their buffer tank. There are already modules in-game that freighter pilots can use to build m3 without hurting their buffer.

Btw. o/ Soundwave

o/