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crashing the PI market
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irishFour
Almost Dangerous
#1 - 2012-11-12 00:47:09 UTC
Im very very worried about something that may happen soon.
Ive invested a lot of time, brain farting around, skill training on 9 different alts across three accounts, and some isk, in setting up a pi infustructure.

This will be my first week of full on mass production of around 1260 p3s a day, and around 120 p4s a day. Not going to list what im making for proprietary reasons, but i will list some other examples.

Simply put, im afraid of single handidly crashing the market on my 2 pi products. referencing jita buy orders for several products, im seeing that 2 weeks of my production and im going to drive the price down 25-40% if i fullfill those orders in jita.

Lets use vaccines as a P3 example. If i were making them, in 10 days (approx 13k worth) or so i would full fill the top orders, and drive the price from 40k to 28k on jita buy orders.

How can the pi market be that volatile where one person can destroy the price and just flood the market, killing the profitability of it.

tell me what you guys think
irish


I like to have my cake and eat it too
Alyssa SaintCroix
Leihkasse Stammheim
#2 - 2012-11-12 01:31:18 UTC
Create your own sell order and don't sell to buy orders. There is also the possibility that the orders you fulfill will be placed again in a couple of days time.
Joshua Vaughn Lampen
Archer Investments Initiative
#3 - 2012-11-12 02:09:53 UTC
Alyssa SaintCroix wrote:
Create your own sell order and don't sell to buy orders. There is also the possibility that the orders you fulfill will be placed again in a couple of days time.


This is key. You will from time to time saturate markets. Its the nature of the beast.
Denal Umbra
Coffee Hub
#4 - 2012-11-12 04:46:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Denal Umbra
PI fluctuates quite a bit on the market, but i haven't seen someone completely -CRASH- any of the products so far. It might dip from 10k -> 5k but in a few weeks/month it will be back near 8-9k so just with a bit more patience, it will sell well.

As long as you are not making a p3/4 that has a very low movement, you will be fine. Check the market data tab to see if you are overproducing a lot more than the market can handle. If yes... it might take you a while to sell it all off.

Edit: I use most of the pi i make nowadays. More profit that way and less competition on the sell orders.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-11-12 04:59:02 UTC
I think it's cute you think 9 toons will ahve any impact on the market at all, considering the thousands of toons that do PI.

There is no Bob.

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Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#6 - 2012-11-12 08:50:47 UTC
Very nice question.

1.
Remember, Jita represents a trade hub where people from all over eve online come to to get needed supplies and unload unneeded supplies, fostering that concept, you must understand one very critical aspect, regardless of price, you must be rid of your excess goods and you must supply yourself with needed supplies regardless of prices, even if you factor in, the availability of ISK on hand.

2.
If you really want to know, for yourself how the price will be effected once you begin to unload X amount of stock daily, you should put together the volumes of Jita Amarr Dodixie and Rens and then add another 50% on top of the entire total to get a good picture of what real daily volume looks like in EvE then factor in the added 800P4 or so units per week you plan on infusing as pressure on the price.
I just want to note, right off of the top of my head, the Major P4 and P3 consumables that iv probably manipulated at-least 2 times of each, during my stay in eve, I can, somewhat confidently say, your volume will not alter the price in a very noticeable manor.

You should consider doing some Industrial work on the side, perhaps turning some of your stock into a final product to add even more profitability to your expected profits to compensate for any losses you possibly foresee if prices alter not in your favor.
Lucy Oreless
Rise of Rephaim
#7 - 2012-11-12 09:59:01 UTC
LOL Lol 1 man crashing the PI-market, read all about it here Lol

I have been doing PI on 4 accounts (12chars) ever since it got implemented into EVE. The first year i only made Robotics (for a nice profit) on all chars. 60+ planets dedicated to the sole purpose of "owning" the robotics-market. I made a profit all right, but as to owning the market... i realized quickly how small and insignificant i was in the big picture Blink

Let me tell you what i found out, and save you some time pondering things Blink You wil have absolutely NO impact whatsoever on the market unless you produce the few products that dont really sell (eg carbon) and sell them in a backwater system.

Good luck on your endeavours though :)

 I did not have sexual relations to THAT woman....
irishFour
Almost Dangerous
#8 - 2012-11-12 10:50:10 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
I think it's cute you think 9 toons will ahve any impact on the market at all, considering the thousands of toons that do PI.



I'm just looking at my projected output numbers and comparing them to the buy orders

I like to have my cake and eat it too
irishFour
Almost Dangerous
#9 - 2012-11-12 11:14:44 UTC
Kara Books wrote:
Very nice question.

1.
Remember, Jita represents a trade hub where people from all over eve online come to to get needed supplies and unload unneeded supplies, fostering that concept, you must understand one very critical aspect, regardless of price, you must be rid of your excess goods and you must supply yourself with needed supplies regardless of prices, even if you factor in, the availability of ISK on hand.

2.
If you really want to know, for yourself how the price will be effected once you begin to unload X amount of stock daily, you should put together the volumes of Jita Amarr Dodixie and Rens and then add another 50% on top of the entire total to get a good picture of what real daily volume looks like in EvE then factor in the added 800P4 or so units per week you plan on infusing as pressure on the price.
I just want to note, right off of the top of my head, the Major P4 and P3 consumables that iv probably manipulated at-least 2 times of each, during my stay in eve, I can, somewhat confidently say, your volume will not alter the price in a very noticeable manor.

You should consider doing some Industrial work on the side, perhaps turning some of your stock into a final product to add even more profitability to your expected profits to compensate for any losses you possibly foresee if prices alter not in your favor.



Besides sov structure and station components, what else does PI turn into.

I like to have my cake and eat it too
LordAssasin
Kenshin.
Fraternity.
#10 - 2012-11-12 11:44:35 UTC
irishFour wrote:
Kara Books wrote:
Very nice question.

1.
Remember, Jita represents a trade hub where people from all over eve online come to to get needed supplies and unload unneeded supplies, fostering that concept, you must understand one very critical aspect, regardless of price, you must be rid of your excess goods and you must supply yourself with needed supplies regardless of prices, even if you factor in, the availability of ISK on hand.

2.
If you really want to know, for yourself how the price will be effected once you begin to unload X amount of stock daily, you should put together the volumes of Jita Amarr Dodixie and Rens and then add another 50% on top of the entire total to get a good picture of what real daily volume looks like in EvE then factor in the added 800P4 or so units per week you plan on infusing as pressure on the price.
I just want to note, right off of the top of my head, the Major P4 and P3 consumables that iv probably manipulated at-least 2 times of each, during my stay in eve, I can, somewhat confidently say, your volume will not alter the price in a very noticeable manor.

You should consider doing some Industrial work on the side, perhaps turning some of your stock into a final product to add even more profitability to your expected profits to compensate for any losses you possibly foresee if prices alter not in your favor.



Besides sov structure and station components, what else does PI turn into.


Drones t2, omg a lot of t2 items. You just need to see what they are. Nanite paste is right there in the spread sheet.
And wit the total nr of char you listed i say to not focus one only one p3 focus on more so if some of them are stagnant you have some other ones. Or best way is to give the final product like drones it realy realy makes life easyer in terms of logistic. drones have a total of 5 10 or 25 space ....imagine how much robotics goes in them.
Google it damn it:) and make a excel file.
Later
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#11 - 2012-11-12 11:48:59 UTC
No serious producer sells to buy orders.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
irishFour
Almost Dangerous
#12 - 2012-11-12 11:52:41 UTC
Val'Dore wrote:
No serious producer sells to buy orders.



thats kinda the conclusion im running into, that it would be beneficial to just set a competitive sell order.
I worry though about the 'Bots" that when i post my sell order, i will immediately have people going tenths of an isk lower then me, through automation. making my sell order go stagnant. I dont live in the forge either, so keeping an eye on it would be difficult.

I like to have my cake and eat it too
Lucy Oreless
Rise of Rephaim
#13 - 2012-11-12 13:07:35 UTC
You can also try to find out who your customers are and make a personal deal with said entity. It is often more economical for both parties to have a agreement outside of Jita-market.

Example: You make 20k Robotics a week, A corporation uses 20K robotics a week. The 2 of you talk together and find a price both can be happy with and a business is made :p You make the stuff where you are at, they buy it for 5-10% under Jita-price and pick it up themselves.

 I did not have sexual relations to THAT woman....
HalfArse
Wixo Trading Co.
#14 - 2012-11-12 13:24:25 UTC
9 alts to produce 120 P4 a day!?!? I use two to produce about 520.

Iv never crashed a market so i doubt your 120 will - and like someone else said - if the price does drop too much for you just hang on to it, price will be back up before long.
Denal Umbra
Coffee Hub
#15 - 2012-11-12 13:28:01 UTC
If you have a free slot, consider making a permanent market alt that sits in a trade hub. Frees up the main to do whatever you want to do and you can log in whenever you can be bothered to check / update the orders.

Also, PI goods sell well even if you are not on the top of the list. As long as you didn't put up the sell order during a price 'spike' since the price fluctuates quite a bit.

as where you can use what type of PI product... check out chrukers.
http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/market.php?group_id=1336
irishFour
Almost Dangerous
#16 - 2012-11-12 13:31:28 UTC
HalfArse wrote:
9 alts to produce 120 P4 a day!?!? I use two to produce about 520.

Iv never crashed a market so i doubt your 120 will - and like someone else said - if the price does drop too much for you just hang on to it, price will be back up before long.



9 alts do PI, 1 produces p4
jesus christ id quit if thats all i could muster
7 extracting, 2 producing. now if thats a bad ratio, let me know

I like to have my cake and eat it too
Sauralus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-11-12 17:10:15 UTC
HalfArse wrote:
9 alts to produce 120 P4 a day!?!? I use two to produce about 520.

Iv never crashed a market so i doubt your 120 will - and like someone else said - if the price does drop too much for you just hang on to it, price will be back up before long.



by the sounds of it he is taking it right off the planet all the way to P4, and so producing 120 a day isnt bad.

520 a day would take something like 21 high tech reactors just to take from p3 to p4.


to balance your production keep a few things in mind

1 basic reactor uses 6000 p0 an hour, which is 144k a day and roughly a million a week.
1 p4 reactor takes 2 p3 which inturn take 4 p2 which takes 4 p1 (due to 30 min cycles) (which equates to 24,000 p0)
heads on extractors yeild varies on where you do your harvesting, but basically have the yeild match the requirements of your reactors.

so for every HT - Advanced - Advanced - Basic ratio is 1:2:4:4 you need a extractor yeild of 24k p0 an hour 576k a day or 4m a week.

Sorry if this is confusing.

Convo me ingame or send a mail and ill see what i can do to explain things.

Sauralus
irishFour
Almost Dangerous
#18 - 2012-11-12 17:20:19 UTC
Sauralus wrote:
HalfArse wrote:
9 alts to produce 120 P4 a day!?!? I use two to produce about 520.

Iv never crashed a market so i doubt your 120 will - and like someone else said - if the price does drop too much for you just hang on to it, price will be back up before long.



by the sounds of it he is taking it right off the planet all the way to P4, and so producing 120 a day isnt bad.

520 a day would take something like 21 high tech reactors just to take from p3 to p4.


to balance your production keep a few things in mind

1 basic reactor uses 6000 p0 an hour, which is 144k a day and roughly a million a week.
1 p4 reactor takes 2 p3 which inturn take 4 p2 which takes 4 p1 (due to 30 min cycles) (which equates to 24,000 p0)
heads on extractors yeild varies on where you do your harvesting, but basically have the yeild match the requirements of your reactors.

so for every HT - Advanced - Advanced - Basic ratio is 1:2:4:4 you need a extractor yeild of 24k p0 an hour 576k a day or 4m a week.

Sorry if this is confusing.

Convo me ingame or send a mail and ill see what i can do to explain things.

Sauralus



no no ono non onon non
7 toons extracting and refining into p1. p1 then collected centrally, where 2 toons, 10 planets all producing, 5 making p4s 5 making p3s according to which toon has which skill levels.

I like to have my cake and eat it too
qDoctor Strangelove
Doomheim
#19 - 2012-11-12 22:39:29 UTC
irishFour wrote:
Sauralus wrote:
HalfArse wrote:
9 alts to produce 120 P4 a day!?!? I use two to produce about 520.

Iv never crashed a market so i doubt your 120 will - and like someone else said - if the price does drop too much for you just hang on to it, price will be back up before long.



by the sounds of it he is taking it right off the planet all the way to P4, and so producing 120 a day isnt bad.

520 a day would take something like 21 high tech reactors just to take from p3 to p4.


to balance your production keep a few things in mind

1 basic reactor uses 6000 p0 an hour, which is 144k a day and roughly a million a week.
1 p4 reactor takes 2 p3 which inturn take 4 p2 which takes 4 p1 (due to 30 min cycles) (which equates to 24,000 p0)
heads on extractors yeild varies on where you do your harvesting, but basically have the yeild match the requirements of your reactors.

so for every HT - Advanced - Advanced - Basic ratio is 1:2:4:4 you need a extractor yeild of 24k p0 an hour 576k a day or 4m a week.

Sorry if this is confusing.

Convo me ingame or send a mail and ill see what i can do to explain things.

Sauralus



no no ono non onon non
7 toons extracting and refining into p1. p1 then collected centrally, where 2 toons, 10 planets all producing, 5 making p4s 5 making p3s according to which toon has which skill levels.



You better have 0 in taxes
irishFour
Almost Dangerous
#20 - 2012-11-12 23:36:17 UTC


[/quote]

You better have 0 in taxes
[/quote]


1%
its annoying, alliance leadership claims that setting it to zero makes it reset daily. not sure if thats the case

I like to have my cake and eat it too
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