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Intergalactic Summit

 
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The Gallente Way of Life

Author
Mekhana
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2012-11-12 10:57:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Mekhana
Raphael Ordo wrote:

Of course. But ask the million upon trillion more people living in the Empire, for example, and see if they give you the same answers.
If two out of ten people give you an answer that doesn't correspond with the rest. Is that automatically the right answer just because it was made outside of the majority and therefore a bit more "special"?
It's unlogical at best.


People know themselves a lot better than a stranger. Locality is of most importance for History and for the understanding of one's society and civilization. Thus, my intellectual opinion will scientifically always be superior to yours in this regard I'm afraid.


Raphael Ordo wrote:

No. This is not a thing we ALL agree on. Just by claiming that one thing is showing how narrow-minded you and your people are and another way of hanging yourself out in the cold. Once again I see no other man nor woman with other than a self-proclaiming, totalitarian egoism combined with, as someone else said; selfish individualism.
Gallenteans has always, and obviously will always, think of themselves as better than the other races or bloodlines in terms of politics, lifestyle and, God forgive them, even wisdom.
Even in a more insulting way than the ideas and ideologies of the holy Amarrians may seem to an outsider without knowledge.

In any case, this is not a newsflash for anyone. The Federation and it's people hasn't changed over the years, even though they proclaim to be the most dynamic and liberal society in New Eden.

Either this is a joke. Or maybe just a reminder for everyone else how grateful we should be for not being part of such blasphemy.


I was going to point out the shortcomings of theological civilization and how backwards and ******** (not in the mentally impaired sense) the Amarr Empire is in regard to other civilizations. I was also going to point out the shortcomings of theism, superstition, zealotry and dogma but I'm afraid you are already are a lost cause. The Amarr Empire will never evolve out of the cocoon it has made for itself. Enjoy herding your sheep while the rest of the universe follows the bright future, the path of logic and science.

Vide longe er eros di Luminaire VII, uni canse pra krage e determiniex! Sange por Sange! Descanse bravex eros, mie freires. Mortir por vostre Liberete, farmilie, ide e amis. lons Proviste sen mort! Luminaire liber mas! 

Rana Ash
Gradient
Electus Matari
#22 - 2012-11-12 12:18:16 UTC
I have no problems with Gallente, sure to me they seem a bit decadent. But it's not a bad thing, we could all do with a bit of decadence now and then Big smile.

At least they haven't tried to shove their ideologies down my throat and claim it's the will of their imaginary friend.
Ava Starfire
Khushakor Clan
#23 - 2012-11-12 12:30:39 UTC
Galaxy Pig wrote:
I appreciate the fresh and uniquely optimistic perspective of the Amarr as always, but I must say, I still think you give them too much damn credit. The student of Gallente-Caldari history would note that every olive branch extended by the State since the first war was met with insult. The Federation would never accept a trade agreement that doesn't leave itself on top and the State in despair, and just when you think they've seen reason, just when you think the Gallente have grown a conscience and you've struck some common ground, they fly a supercarrier into your capital-station. You are fond of drawing contrast between the saprosity of the Gallente and the barbarism of the Matari, but what is more barbaric than slaughtering 400 THOUSAND hard working Caldari? Let us never forget Malkalen.


Wow, you're stupid.

"There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception." -Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North"

Seriphyn Inhonores
Elusenian Cooperative
#24 - 2012-11-12 14:06:32 UTC
I think you're all being a little too reactionary. Mekhana is patently correct.

What she didn't mention is that 'being human' also means 'being evil', too. They don't call the Federation a showcase of human nature for nothing. I'm sure she was absolutely aware of that reality, however, but it's not something you include in an idealistic, positive-minded statement.
Thom Daranta
Daranta Productions
#25 - 2012-11-12 14:14:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Thom Daranta
So... interesting to see the huge numbers of Gallente who have not weighed in on this issue. I presume it is because so many of our fellow citizens are trapped in our holosuites with bags of drugs dripping into their arms, while simultaneously spreading chaos across New Eden. We are absolute scoundrels, you know.

Let's face it: we've all been shaped by our upbringing, by our experiences. But I expect that most people here have more in common than they have differences between them.

Becoming a pod pilot is a process that definitely separates us from our parent cultures. Our whole outlook changes. Our destinies change, become intertwined.

What I mean by all of this is that those of us here are hardly in a position to define what it means to be "Gallente" or "Amarrian" or "Caldari" or "Minmatar." Hell, I even dispute that those categories even exist, except in the legal system. How much in common do the poor and the elites of any society have with one another? I would suggest that the lives of the dispossessed in one empire have more in common with the dispossessed in any other empire more than they have in common with their rulers, regardless of how those rulers get to be in charge. You could argue that some have more potential for advancement than others, but how many actually realize that potential? Precious few, let me tell you.

You want to blame someone for chaos? Don't look at the Gallente. The ultimate force of chaos is right here in this channel. We capsuleers, who break away from our home cultures, who galavant across New Eden, who command fortunes and firepower that no groundpounder politican can match, who throw our lives away in suicide runs because death isn't a barrier to us, we are the disruptive force.

Sure, you could make the argument that loyalist capsuleers are less chaotic than others, but how many capsuleers have taken up the cause of other empires or factions because it was more convenient or they personally liked the other side's philosophy more? I've flown with Amarrian loyalists attempting to pioneer outside of CONCORD jurisdiction, for example. Does that make me a bad Gallentean for not sticking with "my" side, or does it make me a good Gallentean for trying to bridge that cultural divide between the empires? Or does it merely make me opportunistic like most other eggers? Currently I am engaged in talks with Amarrian authorities to include mini-Pleasure Hubs at various facilities. Does that make me a good Gallentean for spreading decadence and filth, or am I a bad Gallentean for ignoring the larger war? Or does it make me an opportunistic egger for trying to create a new market for something that I know how to do? Does it make me a better Caldari than Gallente?

Chest-beating about what it means to be "Gallentean" as a pod pilot is an exercise in vanity. We are what we are. We bring certain gifts to New Eden, certain skills and understandings that others may lack. But that's about it. By the time we are finished with our transformation, after a couple months in the pod a Gallentean resembles Amarrian, Matari and Caldari pilots in attitude. And each of them tend to resemble us.

About the only thing that differentiates us is our greater panache.
Anslo
Scope Works
#26 - 2012-11-12 14:17:19 UTC
Being Gallente means being stared down by opposition to you, being out numbered 10:1 and saying, "**** the odds" because you believe with all your heart and soul that you're doing the right thing.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Thom Daranta
Daranta Productions
#27 - 2012-11-12 15:46:29 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Being Gallente means being stared down by opposition to you, being out numbered 10:1 and saying, "**** the odds" because you believe with all your heart and soul that you're doing the right thing.


Embrace the inner action star? I must admit, we pod pilots are very well equipped for that. Although I'm not by nature a warrior, I've done it myself, though not necessarily to good results.

Read the fine print, everyone. When the marketing material says the drone "is equal to any frigate" they obviously aren't talking about assault ships commanded by other capsuleers. They don't "Even the odds in any circumstances."

Sigh.
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#28 - 2012-11-12 16:00:54 UTC
Thank you for replying to my earlier question. I will certainly agree that it is a Gallente norm to express ones' emotions in public more readily, leading to a more emotionally-charged society. I don't think this is a good thing, however - as decision-making methods go, emotion really isn't optimal for today's difficulties.

I do need to comment on the following, though;

Mekhana wrote:
People know themselves a lot better than a stranger. Locality is of most importance for History and for the understanding of one's society and civilization. Thus, my intellectual opinion will scientifically always be superior to yours in this regard I'm afraid.


An individual does not necessarily know their own motivations better than a stranger. This depends on the amount of introspection and critical thinking one does. If this is not the case, a dispssionate observer with knowledge of behavioral psychology and some time to observe will quickly construct a more reasonable, durable model for predicting the behaviour of the individual. Objectivity is a hard skill that few practice, and fewer still practice it on themselves.

While locality can be important in understanding a society, extended exposure to a given society can generate bias in the student. A better method of understanding a society is through repeated short trips to the same location, allowing one to take advantage of the Returning Anthropologist's effect to increase social porosity while allowing the spread of visits over time to give a solid idea of the social vectors. This allows understanding while having less opportunity for bias.

To conclude, the intellectual opinion of an embedded, subjective party who has not made formal efforts to study their society will always be of lesser worth than a dispassionate observer. If you are interested in gaining this perspective, I imagine that the University of Caille has some excellent programs in that regard.
Anslo
Scope Works
#29 - 2012-11-12 16:12:11 UTC
Thom Daranta wrote:
Anslo wrote:
Being Gallente means being stared down by opposition to you, being out numbered 10:1 and saying, "**** the odds" because you believe with all your heart and soul that you're doing the right thing.


Embrace the inner action star? I must admit, we pod pilots are very well equipped for that. Although I'm not by nature a warrior, I've done it myself, though not necessarily to good results.

Read the fine print, everyone. When the marketing material says the drone "is equal to any frigate" they obviously aren't talking about assault ships commanded by other capsuleers. They don't "Even the odds in any circumstances."

Sigh.


I wasn't really going for the action star thing but hey, if it works for you haha!

I was more speaking to our nature as a people to defend the freedom of others'. I'm having my name spat on, having threats sent to my friends, and other various things because I decided to side with some miners and their crews being harassed by some people in stabbers.

But I really don't care what they say to me. Helping those miners, to me, is worth it.

That's more of what I'm referring to. Absolute opposition to your actions, bother verbally and with a gun, can be demoralizing. But, we're Gallentean. This is the kinda stuff we do yeah?

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Thom Daranta
Daranta Productions
#30 - 2012-11-12 16:48:12 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
Thank you for replying to my earlier question. I will certainly agree that it is a Gallente norm to express ones' emotions in public more readily, leading to a more emotionally-charged society. I don't think this is a good thing, however - as decision-making methods go, emotion really isn't optimal for today's difficulties.

I do need to comment on the following, though;

Mekhana wrote:
People know themselves a lot better than a stranger. Locality is of most importance for History and for the understanding of one's society and civilization. Thus, my intellectual opinion will scientifically always be superior to yours in this regard I'm afraid.


An individual does not necessarily know their own motivations better than a stranger. This depends on the amount of introspection and critical thinking one does. If this is not the case, a dispssionate observer with knowledge of behavioral psychology and some time to observe will quickly construct a more reasonable, durable model for predicting the behaviour of the individual. Objectivity is a hard skill that few practice, and fewer still practice it on themselves.

While locality can be important in understanding a society, extended exposure to a given society can generate bias in the student. A better method of understanding a society is through repeated short trips to the same location, allowing one to take advantage of the Returning Anthropologist's effect to increase social porosity while allowing the spread of visits over time to give a solid idea of the social vectors. This allows understanding while having less opportunity for bias.

To conclude, the intellectual opinion of an embedded, subjective party who has not made formal efforts to study their society will always be of lesser worth than a dispassionate observer. If you are interested in gaining this perspective, I imagine that the University of Caille has some excellent programs in that regard.



I'm more of a post-processual type myself. I don't feel that anyone can be dispassionate about themselves and their condition or situation, unless under strong medication or suffering from brain trauma. We are a collection of our upbringing, experiences and societal obligations and expectations.

The best way to examine oneself is through comparisons with others, understanding the biases one brings to the table and adjusting accordingly. To be Gallentean is not to be perfect, or to be the best. I think I am in agreement with Anslo on this matter. It is to be true to oneself, to be honest with yourself even if you offer deceit and lies to everyone else. Always know why you are doing a thing, so that you can dedicate yourself completely to that thing for as long as necessary. "As necessary" can be either a very idealistic "Until we are victorious!" or a very pragmatic "Until I get tired of it."

Such self-knowledge can't come from outside. As the saying goes, "Every dream held deep inside has a meaning to the soul." However, every soul gives meaning to the dream, and it is unlikely that two different people will attach the same meaning. Whereas an unbiased, dispassionate observer would say that the meaning has an absolute value, or at least that it should have an absolute value across all individuals who share that dream. That is something I could not agree on, because it runs counter to daily observation.

Bias is not a bad thing, merely a variable to be included in reporting observations. The "Returning Anthropologist" may be able to gain insight, but it will be a different insight at a different level than the anthropologist who remains in place. The Returning Anthropologist will not be able to do more than scratch the surface of the culture being examined. One cannot expect that informants will be fully open with such a person, and one cannot expect that the informants will themselves understand what the anthropologist is looking for. The one who remains within the culture, who gains both the trust of informants and the opportunities inherent in long-term, unbroken observations, will gain a far greater insight into the culture being studied.

In my experience, an "unbiased observer" is more likely to be given a bunch of hogwash about the folks that the people being observed don't care for, or the myths that even locals tend to not agree with. That is fine for a "first contact" type situation, but ultimately one has to read the culture of the stranger through the stranger's own filters to properly understand it. People can't be reduced to data points to be plotted out on a graph, unless you are trying to sell some BS to a grant committee. Even the scholars undertaking such reduction understand this.
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#31 - 2012-11-12 17:36:45 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Thom Daranta wrote:
Anslo wrote:
Being Gallente means being stared down by opposition to you, being out numbered 10:1 and saying, "**** the odds" because you believe with all your heart and soul that you're doing the right thing.


Embrace the inner action star? I must admit, we pod pilots are very well equipped for that. Although I'm not by nature a warrior, I've done it myself, though not necessarily to good results.

Read the fine print, everyone. When the marketing material says the drone "is equal to any frigate" they obviously aren't talking about assault ships commanded by other capsuleers. They don't "Even the odds in any circumstances."

Sigh.


I wasn't really going for the action star thing but hey, if it works for you haha!

I was more speaking to our nature as a people to defend the freedom of others'. I'm having my name spat on, having threats sent to my friends, and other various things because I decided to side with some miners and their crews being harassed by some people in stabbers.

But I really don't care what they say to me. Helping those miners, to me, is worth it.

That's more of what I'm referring to. Absolute opposition to your actions, bother verbally and with a gun, can be demoralizing. But, we're Gallentean. This is the kinda stuff we do yeah?


He speaks of the "freedom" to flood the market with cheap isotopes while ignoring regional taxation. Another demonstration of the Gallente scum's talent to spin the truth into something to make them feel noble and special.

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com

Mekhana
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2012-11-12 18:04:07 UTC
I am noble and special I don't need an excuse to feel that way.

Wish I could relay sarcarsm clearly over text.

Vide longe er eros di Luminaire VII, uni canse pra krage e determiniex! Sange por Sange! Descanse bravex eros, mie freires. Mortir por vostre Liberete, farmilie, ide e amis. lons Proviste sen mort! Luminaire liber mas! 

Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#33 - 2012-11-12 18:40:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Katrina Oniseki
I find this topic trite on these forums... but I'll bite, without the famous 'pithy one liners'.

I remember Malkalen, 'Galaxy Pig'. I remember the tears on my face that day, and I remember it every day I go to work for the dream of Otro Gariushi. I remember that his dream was to turn away from the blind hatred of Gallenteans so touted by Tibus Heth. Your words attack and insult, and bring disrespect to the very souls of Malkalen you attempt so poorly to honor and remember.

You make yourself a fool, crying "Remember Malkalen" from the rooftops while wholly disregarding the real people of Ishukone who gave their lives in the name of a cause you scarcely seem to comprehend.

Katrina Oniseki

Gussarde en Welle
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2012-11-12 18:47:00 UTC
Scherezad wrote:

An individual does not necessarily know their own motivations better than a stranger.


Remarkable! This is a perspective totally unique to Caldari thinking.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#35 - 2012-11-12 18:48:46 UTC
Gussarde en Welle wrote:
Scherezad wrote:

An individual does not necessarily know their own motivations better than a stranger.


Remarkable! This is a perspective totally unique to Caldari thinking.


Nope. Lots of reasonable people hold this belief.
Gussarde en Welle
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2012-11-12 18:58:44 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Gussarde en Welle wrote:
Scherezad wrote:

An individual does not necessarily know their own motivations better than a stranger.


Remarkable! This is a perspective totally unique to Caldari thinking.


Nope. Lots of reasonable people hold this belief.


Tiberious, you are a TSF member. I have serious doubts that you and I can agree on the definition of a "reasonable person;" nearly no one in the galaxy seemed to think that Sansha Kuvakei was "reasonable."
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#37 - 2012-11-12 19:07:25 UTC
Gussarde en Welle wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Gussarde en Welle wrote:
Scherezad wrote:

An individual does not necessarily know their own motivations better than a stranger.


Remarkable! This is a perspective totally unique to Caldari thinking.


Nope. Lots of reasonable people hold this belief.


Tiberious, you are a TSF member. I have serious doubts that you and I can agree on the definition of a "reasonable person;" nearly no one in the galaxy seemed to think that Sansha Kuvakei was "reasonable."


"Is" reasonable, for one. Sansha Kuvakei is still around.

Second, I am not speaking as to my own personal belief here, only that many reasonable people hold this belief. The entire advertising industry, for instance, is based on the ability to understand a person better than they understand themselves. Same goes for psychoanalysis, same goes for any statistical entity.

Emotion and gut feeling, and non-objective self analysis are not winning tools in the game of life. Groups which run models to predict behavior of groups, and hence the behavior of individuals within that group, overwhelmingly hold advantage over those (few) groups which shrug and say, simply, that human beings are far too complicated to understand.
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#38 - 2012-11-12 19:08:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Galaxy Pig
And how did Otro's "dream" turn out for him? Oh, that's right, he was vaporized by Gallente treachery.

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com

Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#39 - 2012-11-12 19:11:53 UTC
Gussarde en Welle wrote:
Scherezad wrote:

An individual does not necessarily know their own motivations better than a stranger.


Remarkable! This is a perspective totally unique to Caldari thinking.


I doubt this very much, but can't speak for foreign science methodologies. All I can say is that external observers with formal training have been shown to be able to construct better behavioural models of a subject than the subject themselves. As is popularly said, people are incapable of being objective, and to the first order, that is true. Few individuals undertake the mental training needed to gain an objective viewpoint on themselves.

Mister Daranta, I will reply to your post shortly; it's a lot of text and it takes me a long time to understand what is being said. I will reply as soon as I am able. Sorry for the delay!
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#40 - 2012-11-12 19:13:53 UTC
Galaxy Pig wrote:
And how did Otro's "dream" turn out for him? Oh, that's right, he was vaporized by Gallente treachery.


Otro Gariushi was a patriot and a true son of the State. I don't think you're doing his memory justice by suggesting his inability to predict the insanity of a single man was down to naivety.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.