EVE General Discussion

Yeah the only one who instead of wailing like you guys are doing and repeating the same 3 trite boring things, *tries* to put different topics. They are certainly debatable but at least they are different than your WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA NERF DE HI SEEEEEC.

Zim, I love you <3

Beware, the nose is brown.

If only you bothered to read before abusing of the compulsion to write.

"Finished goods" does not equal "minerals in that rifter hold".

Imagine the guy carries finished, stacked stuff in the rifter for a value of 30k isk. Even using your masochistic 1% number, he'd have to shell an impossible amount of... 300 ISK.

It's *an* idea.

It's certainly something different than the incessant crying I never stop hearing since years.
It can be improved for sure (i.e. who got racial freighter to IV can train a limited fee decrease skill) but at least it's constructive and not going to make hi sec a desert.


You know what makes me incredulous at seeing GS complaining?

Imagine Bush. Yes that "specimen".
Imagine him producing advertisment after advertisment - a truly HAMMERING campaign where he preaches how the richest must be completely tax exempt, the poorest and young must be flogged with taxes up their teeth.

I don't know if even him could go so far, it'd really make everyone crap in his face.


But what do we see in EvE?

The richest, most important, most powerful alliance. The one that got everything. The one with finest financial minds able to subvert game mechanics and invest hundreds of billions in pet projects. The top one providing Technetium for the others to buy and make them even richer. The only alliance ever in 10 years so wealthy to be able to sustain a permanent Hulkageddon.

And yet, THEY and not some cruddy class B-- alliance, keep HAMMERING the forums about how bad they have it, how poor they are, how hindered it's to be them and so on.

Bush much?



Edit:

Said that, it's true that nullsec needed urgent re-design... years ago... and yet they got totally boned (despite Dominion, which imo was full of fail). But then, null sec needing urgent re-design does not mean hi sec should be gutted nor that high sec should be gutted first and then the redesign done later.
Redo null sec, *then* close the remaining gaps, if any.

It's certainly an idea, but the only three things it'll do is try to isolate gallente from amarr from minmatarr from caldari, and hisec from lowsec from nullsec, act as an isk sink, and make new people wonder what the hell this intrusive tax is as they go from one empire to the other.

On the other hand, the suggestions I'm advocating have 4 prime functions:
1) Act as isk sinks to work towards keeping monetary inflation more under control
2) Curb hisec in comparison to low/null
3) Help encourage people to move their industrial alts back to nullsec
4) Enable nullsec alliances to set their own taxes to tweak the way nullsec finances themselves, from using mainly either moons, to the activity of its own playerbase.

As to "hurr it's going to make hisec a desert", it isn't. CCP has already increased the market transaction tax once, and nobody batted an eyelid. And if the ones whining the hardest about any change are going to be the people who currently enjoy spending only 2k to build a full battleship, then I'm going to just say tough noogies, that's an old idiotic design choice which makes no sense.


Well duh, I haven't ever said CCP should just go *wham* 1000 slots, perfect refine in every nullsec station and automatically ramp manufacturing costs to 5% of isk value, ramp market transaction costs to 5% and reduce max refinery efficiency by 5% in one fell swoop, in fact I've made it quite clear multiple times that the first thing which needs to happen is that nullsec needs more manufacturing capacity, compressed ore refine rate needs to be reduced to enable refine taxes to actually be implemented and make market transaction taxes be funnelled into a wallet of the corp holding the station (or the alliance, whatevs), all to help the alliances move over to a bottom up financing mode where having an active playerbase becomes more important for every alliance in null than which moons it has. Then once it becomes apparent that nullsec still can't compete with hisec (note: not if, when) industry-wise, start ramping up the taxes until the desired result appears. Presumably this'll happen well before 5%, and if it's ramped up just like the transaction tax was ramped up with inferno, nobody'll give a toss, apart from those who are happily making BSes for 2k a piece.

Oops, you're right. Math is hard.

Today we were discussing how mining would need a complete rehaul. Problem is, nullsec needs it even more exactly because of what you say.
In fact there's a reason why we have no "guilds" in EvE but "corps": guilds are a cooperative effort, corps are a "job" oriented approach. The fact that you have to tax workers instead of paying them is totally contrary to any logic.

Corps should always pay the members, a larger entity (let's call it "state") should be the one providing defense for a fee. This is usually achieved by alliance but you see the distorsion at corp level, where "workers" have to pay instead of getting paid.
Sure they may get ship refunds (not all corps) but it's still distant from a real corporation concept.

Edit: I see I have jumped a lot of middle text to pass from your topic to my reply but you are smart and can understand why I wrote this.




Yes but there's a big topic currently being discussed in RL about taxes: it's usually better to pinpoint tax than "horizontal" tax.

Putting a flat fee on transactions (Tobin EvE tax? ) and similar is dumb like it is in RL because it affects everybody, from the newbie to the guy who is not going to benefit from the tax earnings because he does not use the affected feature.

Taxing those who use a certain feature (moving stuff across secs in this case) imo is pinpointed and fairer.

Corestwo can make the logic jump and see the lackluster game design that forces corps into taxing their workers instead of paying them like - you know - RL companies. It's uncommon at best for employees to have to pay their company to be allowed to work.

You seem to not have done that logic jump.

You didn't even suggest a way of nerfing Nullsec...

But, realistically, unless the situation changes drastically (maybe with Retribution, but even then it might not be that big a difference), CCP is not going to "nerf" Nullsec, Lowsec, or Hisec. It's been the way it is for a long time, and there are many people on all sides of the argument.

Please, I'm open to correction, this is just what I've garnered from reading the forums for awhile. I could easily be wrong, if Retribution does actually make Lowsec and/ or Hisec better.