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Retiring the Thrasher?

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Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#1 - 2012-11-11 14:59:21 UTC
The three C's - Corm, Cat, Coercer- are getting significant upgrades. They include sig radius reduction, significant power grid upgrades, a slight HP increase, and reduced mass. The Coercer and Corm get a more flexible slot layout. The Coercer's highest tier weapons also become easier to fit.

The Thrasher will get a slight HP increase, but also a mass increase. The Catalyst will be the fastest destroyer after Dec 4th.

And of course there are four new destroyers to fly. Since destroyers are seen predominantly in FW, what will you be flying? The thrasher will still be a good ship, but it seens to have a lot more competition.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#2 - 2012-11-11 15:08:15 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
The three C's - Corm, Cat, Coercer- are getting significant upgrades. They include sig radius reduction, significant power grid upgrades, a slight HP increase, and reduced mass. The Coercer and Corm get a more flexible slot layout. The Coercer's highest tier weapons also become easier to fit.

The Thrasher will get a slight HP increase, but also a mass increase. The Catalyst will be the fastest destroyer after Dec 4th.

And of course there are four new destroyers to fly. Since destroyers are seen predominantly in FW, what will you be flying? The thrasher will still be a good ship, but it seens to have a lot more competition.

Thrasher = ALPHA. That is all.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#3 - 2012-11-11 15:34:17 UTC
Arty thrashers will be useful for getting through the new logistic frigates. But both a rail Cat and the future beam Coercer can send more firepower farther at a rate of fire that is much more flexible then a thrashers.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#4 - 2012-11-11 15:59:13 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
The Coercer .... get a more flexible slot layout. The Coercer's highest tier weapons also become easier to fit....he Catalyst will be the fastest destroyer after Dec 4th....

So they are taking the slot from the high rack instead of the lows?

Coercer will be far more limited with 8/2/3 than it is with current 8/1/4. Only good thing is the ability to fit large bore guns without having to chop of ones lower leg to make it fit but it just barely makes up for three lows.

As you said, the beam fit will be pretty damn good but then the extra mid is for Sebo/TC and not the "OMGMUSTHAVEPOINT!!!" that was the raison d'etre of the entire slot revision of all the dessies (and likely a contributing factor in addition of second dessies).
Pulse fit will suffer immensely from loosing a low.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#5 - 2012-11-11 17:36:29 UTC
i do not know how thing will be after expansions because there will be 4 new destroyers too and some of those seems to be quite nasty on paper

Luckily i have skills for all sub capitals and weapons for those so i am not really worried which ships will be good or bad, i will just take a ship that fits best to my play style.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#6 - 2012-11-11 18:06:28 UTC
I have no clue about how the new destroyers will be.

But if the corm is dropping a midslot and the coercer is dropping a low slot I consider both of them nerfed. Bigger guns on the coercer will just make them more vulnerable to the td t1 frigates that are now so common.

So now the corm matches the thrasher slot layout and the coercer matches the catalyst. I prefered the more diverse yet balanced approach.

But with 4 new destroyers on the way I am happy with ccps work.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#7 - 2012-11-11 19:12:24 UTC
Most TD frigates have little to no tank. There are some exceptions - 400mm plate firetails with a TD for example. But most condors will explode if they get looked at funny. I've found locking farther and shooting farther to be great solutions. And while pulse lasers have the worst short range tracking of any weapon system - beams have the best tracking of any long range system. Using a little genolution implant set magic:

Beam Coercer-
High:
Medium Beam Lasers II x 8
Mid:
Limited MWD
SB II
Low:
Heat Sink II x 2
TE II
Rigs:
Ancillary Current Router
Energy Locus Coordinator
Energy Burst Rig

It will lock to 60km. It does 241 DPS at 53km with damage implants. It does well over 400 DPS with faction MF. 30% better tracking then a rail cat or an Arty Thrasher with a TC.

Pulse Coercer-
High:
Medium Pulse II x 8
Mid:
Limited MWD
Faint Warp Disruptor
Low:
Heat Sink II
TE II
Internal Force Field Array
Rigs:
Energy Burst
Energy Collision

360 DPS with Scorch. 550ish DPS with Conflag. Very vulnerable to TD ships. Roll

As for the Cormorant - the 75mm rail, dual MSE fit is going away. The blaster dual web fit is going away. You can still get the same range on the 150mm rail fit - just have two SB and two TE rather then two SB, a TC, and a TE. Here's the cool part though - you can trade the two TE for a TE and MFS or even two MFS. You can get some nice damage out of the thing. I was doing 350 DPS at 23km with faction antimatter on the test server.

Lastly - the original destroyers all have 8 high slots. They all have an optimal and a tracking bonus. It goes without saying that they didn't really have originality in the first place.
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#8 - 2012-11-11 20:45:16 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
The thrasher will still be a good ship, but it seens to have a lot more competition.

That hardly sounds like "retiring"... Rather, like "settling into a niche", which is the way most ships in are going.

ISD LackOfFaith

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums.
Deen Wispa
Sheriff.
Caldari Tactical Operations Command
#9 - 2012-11-11 20:51:32 UTC
Coercers. With an extra midslot. Learn to love it.

High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve .
Garr Earthbender
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2012-11-12 03:21:22 UTC
TD frigates still die to the Coercer.

Die hookbill, DIE!

-Scissors is overpowered, rock is fine. -Paper
Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#11 - 2012-11-12 16:20:29 UTC
My AC Thrasher will still pwn you!

(forgets about stack of 100 coercers purchased for changes)

nom nom
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#12 - 2012-11-12 18:38:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Garr Earthbender wrote:
TD frigates still die to the Coercer.

Die hookbill, DIE!



Nice kill.

Your Dual pulses have better tracking than the bigger pulses. I noticed he had a range script in. I wonder if he forgot about scorch.

The bigger pulses should help with long range kiters. But the coercer will not be the brawler it is now. Yes I had slaves. Yes I am addicted to drop booster. No I didn't have a booster alt. But the fights were great fun. Basically you can belly flop into any minor plex and just start shooting.

Lots of these battle reports show hostiles as friendlies. Check the actual killmail if your unsure.

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/engagement.php?id=17110487#involvedPilots

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/engagement.php?id=17104737#involvedPilots

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/engagement.php?id=16944191#involvedPilots

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/engagement.php?id=16900585#involvedPilots

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/engagement.php?id=16763262#involvedPilots

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/engagement.php?id=16533080#involvedPilots

BTW: The last one was actually 2 seperate fights where I fought 3 t1 frigates each time.

The decrease in brute gank and tank is why I am not thrilled with trading a heatsink for a midslot.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Maz3r Rakum
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-11-13 20:22:02 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Coercer's highest tier weapons also become easier to fit.



Got a link for the dev post?
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#14 - 2012-11-13 22:43:04 UTC
The 72km rail Cormy is going, which is a nerf. But the Coercer is going to be a brute.

I like the idea of FW becoming less "thrashers online". With so many new ships - and here I include turning the Scythe et al from pumpkins into stage coaches - it is impossible to predict what will be FOTM and what will not, ahead of 5th December.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#15 - 2012-11-13 22:49:10 UTC
Maz3r Rakum wrote:
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Coercer's highest tier weapons also become easier to fit.



Got a link for the dev post?


Link
Abyssum Invocat
Yet Another Tax Haven
#16 - 2012-11-14 00:19:12 UTC
Our Sniperants will blot out the sun.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#17 - 2012-11-14 10:01:39 UTC
Out of the current 4 only the Coercer will get anywhere close to the thrasher tbh... Catalyst and corm are pretty damn underwhelming


The Corax however.. Will be totally made of win.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#18 - 2012-11-14 13:13:53 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Out of the current 4 only the Coercer will get anywhere close to the thrasher tbh... Catalyst and corm are pretty damn underwhelming


The Corax however.. Will be totally made of win.


Put a 125mm rail cat in my hands and I will beat a thrasher 9 times out of 10. Arty or AC. It doesn't matter.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-11-14 15:09:53 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Out of the current 4 only the Coercer will get anywhere close to the thrasher tbh... Catalyst and corm are pretty damn underwhelming


The Corax however.. Will be totally made of win.


If they update it from its current fitting on the test server, yeah...
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#20 - 2012-11-15 02:48:52 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Out of the current 4 only the Coercer will get anywhere close to the thrasher tbh... Catalyst and corm are pretty damn underwhelming


The Corax however.. Will be totally made of win.


Put a 125mm rail cat in my hands and I will beat a thrasher 9 times out of 10. Arty or AC. It doesn't matter.



Then in my humble opinion you are dealing with a ****** thrasher.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish