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CCP No longer adding sandbox?

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Souisa
Subhypersonics
#41 - 2012-11-11 12:56:03 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Souisa wrote:


Why cant they enter high sec btw.


Because they are far too powerful for highsec.


You mean CONCORD are too weak, or?

o/
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#42 - 2012-11-11 12:57:59 UTC
Souisa wrote:


You mean CONCORD are too weak, or?


I think you should spend a lot more time learning about this game before demanding changes to ships.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#43 - 2012-11-11 13:00:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Souisa wrote:
You mean CONCORD are too weak, or?
No. Player ships are too weak.
How (and when) do you cost-effectively suicide-gank a carrier before CONCORD shows up and before it simply jumps away?

Oh, and here's a tip: if you don't know these things, you have just disqualified yourself from suggesting things that affect the balance of the game because you are woefully blind to the big picture; if you do know these things, stop playing stupid.

The five-year-old routine is cute when you're five years old. Around here, it's trolling, so go read the wiki instead.
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#44 - 2012-11-11 13:09:45 UTC
Well i guess those people dont have the answers anyway. Besides its irrelevant to the subject at hand, wether or not capitals can exist in highsec. I think freighters lack customization, and even if freighters were never supposed to reach 1 million m3 cargo space it should be possible to balance them in this way even with fitting slots

o/
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#45 - 2012-11-11 13:17:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Souisa wrote:
Well i guess those people dont have the answers anyway
Who and to what questions?

Quote:
Besides its irrelevant to the subject at hand, wether or not capitals can exist in highsec.
No, it's not. It's the crucial limiting factor that ensures that any kind of fitting options for freighters will mean that they will see significant nerfs to their defining characteristic: their massive cargo holds.

Quote:
I think freighters lack customization, and even if freighters were never supposed to reach 1 million m3 cargo space it should be possible to balance them in this way even with fitting slots
Yes, it's possible: by nerfing them, meaning that your supposed improvement only ever makes the ships worse at what they're supposed to be good at.

Freighters don't need customisation. They come pre-optimised and does everything they're supposed to do exceedingly well. If you want options, you already have them in the form of the seven other freighters, the eight transport ships, the industrial command ship, and the fourteen industrial ships. So why are freighters in such desperate need of a nerf when it wouldn't solve anything or address any kind of issue?
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#46 - 2012-11-11 13:18:23 UTC
going to the beach and get some sand for the sandbox

R.S.I2014
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#47 - 2012-11-11 13:19:48 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Souisa wrote:
Well i guess those people dont have the answers anyway
Who and to what questions?

Quote:
Besides its irrelevant to the subject at hand, wether or not capitals can exist in highsec.
No, it's not. It's the crucial limiting factor that ensures that any kind of fitting options for freighters will mean that they will see significant nerfs to their defining characteristic: their massive cargo holds.

Quote:
I think freighters lack customization, and even if freighters were never supposed to reach 1 million m3 cargo space it should be possible to balance them in this way even with fitting slots
Yes, it's possible: by nerfing them, meaning that your supposed improvement only ever makes the ships worse at what they're supposed to be good at.

Freighters don't need customisation. They come pre-optimised and does everything they're supposed to do exceedingly well. If you want options, you already have them in the form of the seven other freighters, the eight transport ships, the industrial command ship, and the fourteen industrial ships. So why are freighters in such desperate need of a nerf when it wouldn't solve anything or address any kind of issue?


The fact you think freighters should not have fitting slots is more a sign on your lack of imagination and constructive thought than anything else. Im sorry but thats the way i see it. When i try to understand your position you back out. Im sorry but im done talking with you

o/
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#48 - 2012-11-11 13:23:50 UTC
Souisa wrote:
The fact you think freighters should not have fitting slots is more a sign on your lack of imagination and constructive thought than anything else.
No, it's a sign of my understanding how the ships are balanced and their role in the game — two rather important things that you seem to lack. You also seem to be confused about this entire “sandbox” concept since what you're asking for has nothing to do with the sandbox and everything to do with turning buckets into spades for no clear reason.

You are asking for severe nerfs to an entire category of ships to solve… what, exactly?
Gixxer 1000
Perkone
Caldari State
#49 - 2012-11-11 13:39:22 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Souisa wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Souisa wrote:


No one is gonna remove your 200k EHP freighter, you will just have to put some reinforced bulkheds on it to get that


AKA a nerf to my cargo.


?


Freighters cannot be allowed to have a cargo hold of 1 million m3. This means that any lowslots or rig slots muct be acompanied by a nerf to the cargo to accomadate the use of cargo expanders.


Don't let this guy fool ya, he doesn't want freighters to have any tank so he and his corpmates continue to have easy ganks on them in high sec. He is only looking out for his own interests, not the interests that benefit the whole of Eve.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#50 - 2012-11-11 13:43:21 UTC
Gixxer 1000 wrote:
Don't let this guy fool ya
About what? He is 100% correct about what would have to happen and why it would be a bad thing.

Do you honestly believe that freighter pilots in general want their ships to carry less stuff or become even weaker than they are now? Because those are the only two options if they were given lowslots.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#51 - 2012-11-11 14:13:48 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Gixxer 1000 wrote:
Don't let this guy fool ya
About what? He is 100% correct about what would have to happen and why it would be a bad thing.

Do you honestly believe that freighter pilots in general want their ships to carry less stuff or become even weaker than they are now? Because those are the only two options if they were given lowslots.


He was on about the other guy fooling me I thinkP
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#52 - 2012-11-11 14:47:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Souisa
Freighters deserve fitting options as every other ship has, why they dont have it is beyond me. And people who say a ship becomes worse of with fitting options must have no idea what they are talking about

o/
Mag's
Azn Empire
#53 - 2012-11-11 15:45:07 UTC
Souisa wrote:
Freighters deserve fitting options as every other ship has, why they dont have it is beyond me. And people who say a ship becomes worse of with fitting options must have no idea what they are talking about
Why do they?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#54 - 2012-11-11 15:50:00 UTC
Souisa wrote:
Freighters deserve fitting options as every other ship has, why they dont have it is beyond me.
Why do they need fitting options?
Why they don't have them has already been explained: because it would make them worse.

Quote:
And people who say a ship becomes worse of with fitting options must have no idea what they are talking about
Compelling argument. How would you give them access to cargo expanders and still ensuring that they can't get more cargo space than the current maximums without reducing their base cargo holds (by ~22% per lowslot)?
If the answer is “disallow expanders” then why not just give them flat HP increases, since that's obviously what you're after?
If all you're after is a sturdier ship, what's wrong with the existing options?

In short, what problem are you trying to solve and how does the addition of slots solve that problem without making the ships worse?
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#55 - 2012-11-11 16:12:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Souisa
Mag's wrote:
Souisa wrote:
Freighters deserve fitting options as every other ship has, why they dont have it is beyond me. And people who say a ship becomes worse of with fitting options must have no idea what they are talking about
Why do they?


To make it a more enjoyable ship, more 'sandbox', to give players choice. Same reason as every other ship

o/
Mag's
Azn Empire
#56 - 2012-11-11 16:18:37 UTC
Souisa wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Souisa wrote:
Freighters deserve fitting options as every other ship has, why they dont have it is beyond me. And people who say a ship becomes worse of with fitting options must have no idea what they are talking about
Why do they?


To make it a more enjoyable ship, more 'sandbox', to give players choice. Same reason as every other ship has fittings
Other ships have fitting options, so they can fill their role and without those options they couldn't function. This cannot be said for freighters, which fill their role very well without fitting options. So again, why do they need them?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#57 - 2012-11-11 16:19:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Souisa
Mag's wrote:
Souisa wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Souisa wrote:
Freighters deserve fitting options as every other ship has, why they dont have it is beyond me. And people who say a ship becomes worse of with fitting options must have no idea what they are talking about
Why do they?


To make it a more enjoyable ship, more 'sandbox', to give players choice. Same reason as every other ship has fittings
Other ships have fitting options, so they can fill their role and without those options they couldn't function. This cannot be said for freighters, which fill their role very well without fitting options. So again, why do they need them?


To make it a more enjoyable ship, to give players choice etc. Just like every other ship. Are you saying this is a bad thing?

o/
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
#58 - 2012-11-11 16:23:37 UTC
CCP constantly challenges the community to break its game. It is like we are part of a 9 almost 10 year Beta.

If you perceive limitations in this game, more than likely you created them.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#59 - 2012-11-11 16:23:48 UTC
Souisa wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Souisa wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Souisa wrote:
Freighters deserve fitting options as every other ship has, why they dont have it is beyond me. And people who say a ship becomes worse of with fitting options must have no idea what they are talking about
Why do they?


To make it a more enjoyable ship, more 'sandbox', to give players choice. Same reason as every other ship has fittings
Other ships have fitting options, so they can fill their role and without those options they couldn't function. This cannot be said for freighters, which fill their role very well without fitting options. So again, why do they need them?


To make it a more enjoyable ship, to give players choice etc. Just like every other ship
It moves cargo from A to B. You either get a kick out of that or you don't. What choices do you want that fitting could give, without breaking balance?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#60 - 2012-11-11 16:26:23 UTC
Faster align times, faster warp times, there should be more options for the risk takers

o/