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Crime & Punishment

 
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Want a Free War with Goonswarm Forever?

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Zhade Lezte
#201 - 2012-11-09 23:58:57 UTC
Well, with the second highsec features expansion.
Soryn Kael
Chaos From Order
#202 - 2012-11-10 10:55:50 UTC
Well, considering that the whole point of the wardec changes was to make it harder for people to dec goonswarm and the subsequent iterations on that concept have served to make it still more difficult for people to dec goonswarm... I'm reasonably sure that the Eve Community knows the score on this one.

Did you ever get around to explaining to your entire membership that this whole incident could have been avoided just by covering our fees and expenses for the original dec against Quasar?
Not Xolve
Doomheim
#203 - 2012-11-10 13:27:16 UTC
Soryn Kael wrote:
Well, considering that the whole point of the wardec changes was to make it harder for people to dec goonswarm and the subsequent iterations on that concept have served to make it still more difficult for people to dec goonswarm... I'm reasonably sure that the Eve Community knows the score on this one.

Did you ever get around to explaining to your entire membership that this whole incident could have been avoided just by covering our fees and expenses for the original dec against Quasar?


You act like this dec is some obscene punishment on the common membership, the war dec mechanics have been laughably broken for months now- and the Dominion Sov system is just as silly involving the hoops a coalition needs to jump through to handle switching ownership of systems and stations.

To most of us, a WarDec is just an annoying evemail of no consequence; while this one in particular gives the common Goon yet another oppurtunity to shoot structures (even our own)- I think you seriously underestimate our love of shooting structures. To date- the Guristas NPCs have killed more Goon ships than Manifest Destinydot has.

Keep acting like you are singlehandedly saving the game from the Goon Menace though, it's rather :shobon:.

FREE XOLVE 2012
Courthouse
Perkone
Caldari State
#204 - 2012-11-10 17:28:27 UTC
Soryn Kael wrote:
Well, considering that the whole point of the wardec changes was to make it harder for people to dec goonswarm and the subsequent iterations on that concept have served to make it still more difficult for people to dec goonswarm... I'm reasonably sure that the Eve Community knows the score on this one.

Did you ever get around to explaining to your entire membership that this whole incident could have been avoided just by covering our fees and expenses for the original dec against Quasar?


The intended changes of the wardec mechanics was to encourage highsec combat. It was basically a silver-plattered gift for RvB, with little thought towards the effects or consequences beyond mutual alliance-level highsec PVP. The previous iteration of wardec sharing was largely irrelevant towards goonswarm (shhhhh, we don't actually live in highsec) except in that it allowed far too much warsharing to be more than a griefing mechanic.

IMO, wardecs should be more of a reciprocity mechanic, which I suppose the bounty system is going to try to address (protip: it'll be as clunky and exploitable as the current wardec system, which was as clunky as exploitable as the last one, and the one before that. There's a pattern, you see.).

In the end, it's not about goonswarm. I've got bigger fish to fry than some ****** little alt alliance and much bigger issues to tackle than highsec "wars" (you derpy little idiots think that killrights equals war, it doesn't. It's killrights. I get those by virtue of just being in space). Speaking of, we live in Deklein and Tribute. If you want war with us, feel free to come by.

If we have developer credits to spend, believe me when i say we're dumping them wholesale into pushing for an economic overhaul and nullsec sov mechanic change, which you can read all about on themittani.com.
Miko Jin
HELVEGEN
#205 - 2012-11-10 19:53:28 UTC
Courthouse wrote:
Soryn Kael wrote:
Well, considering that the whole point of the wardec changes was to make it harder for people to dec goonswarm and the subsequent iterations on that concept have served to make it still more difficult for people to dec goonswarm... I'm reasonably sure that the Eve Community knows the score on this one.

Did you ever get around to explaining to your entire membership that this whole incident could have been avoided just by covering our fees and expenses for the original dec against Quasar?


The intended changes of the wardec mechanics was to encourage highsec combat. It was basically a silver-plattered gift for RvB, with little thought towards the effects or consequences beyond mutual alliance-level highsec PVP. The previous iteration of wardec sharing was largely irrelevant towards goonswarm (shhhhh, we don't actually live in highsec) except in that it allowed far too much warsharing to be more than a griefing mechanic.

IMO, wardecs should be more of a reciprocity mechanic, which I suppose the bounty system is going to try to address (protip: it'll be as clunky and exploitable as the current wardec system, which was as clunky as exploitable as the last one, and the one before that. There's a pattern, you see.).

In the end, it's not about goonswarm. I've got bigger fish to fry than some ****** little alt alliance and much bigger issues to tackle than highsec "wars" (you derpy little idiots think that killrights equals war, it doesn't. It's killrights. I get those by virtue of just being in space). Speaking of, we live in Deklein and Tribute. If you want war with us, feel free to come by.

If we have developer credits to spend, believe me when i say we're dumping them wholesale into pushing for an economic overhaul and nullsec sov mechanic change, which you can read all about on themittani.com.


Am i the only one that is laughing at the tears from these guys just because they cannot compete in High Sec and are whining away at getting perma jammed?
Not Xolve
Doomheim
#206 - 2012-11-10 20:06:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Not Xolve
Miko Jin wrote:
Am i the only one that is laughing at the tears from these guys just because they cannot compete in High Sec and are whining away at getting perma jammed?


Considering we hold top places in literally every metric worth 'competing' over (Sov, Moons, Supers, Players...), please explain to us why you think we should care about high sec?

My alt has no problems buying things in Jita, having them shipped to a lowsec system, and jumping them out with a carrier.

FREE XOLVE 2012
Courthouse
Perkone
Caldari State
#207 - 2012-11-10 20:11:34 UTC
Miko Jin wrote:

Am i the only one that is laughing at the tears from these guys just because they cannot compete in High Sec and are whining away at getting perma jammed?



Yeah, actually, you probably are. But it's because you're insane and detached from reality, not because you're right about any particular point.
Miko Jin
HELVEGEN
#208 - 2012-11-10 20:21:41 UTC
Courthouse wrote:
Miko Jin wrote:

Am i the only one that is laughing at the tears from these guys just because they cannot compete in High Sec and are whining away at getting perma jammed?



Yeah, actually, you probably are. But it's because you're insane and detached from reality, not because you're right about any particular point.


Being detached from reality as you say that I am, Can you bring us back to reality and say how much this war dec has cost you guys so far? Make sure it is realistic!
Courthouse
Perkone
Caldari State
#209 - 2012-11-10 21:28:49 UTC
Miko Jin wrote:
Courthouse wrote:
Miko Jin wrote:

Am i the only one that is laughing at the tears from these guys just because they cannot compete in High Sec and are whining away at getting perma jammed?



Yeah, actually, you probably are. But it's because you're insane and detached from reality, not because you're right about any particular point.


Being detached from reality as you say that I am, Can you bring us back to reality and say how much this war dec has cost you guys so far? Make sure it is realistic!


Goonswarm? Nothing. Some annoyance with sov transfers that we're blaming on the CEO that called for the wardec because Manifest Destinydot doesn't undock, let alone go into nullsec.

I think one guy lost a freighter with like 5b or something in scammed **** he had just taken. Beyond that I haven't heard of anything.
Miko Jin
HELVEGEN
#210 - 2012-11-11 11:33:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Miko Jin
Courthouse wrote:
Miko Jin wrote:
Courthouse wrote:
Miko Jin wrote:

Am i the only one that is laughing at the tears from these guys just because they cannot compete in High Sec and are whining away at getting perma jammed?



Yeah, actually, you probably are. But it's because you're insane and detached from reality, not because you're right about any particular point.


Being detached from reality as you say that I am, Can you bring us back to reality and say how much this war dec has cost you guys so far? Make sure it is realistic!


Goonswarm? Nothing. Some annoyance with sov transfers that we're blaming on the CEO that called for the wardec because Manifest Destinydot doesn't undock, let alone go into nullsec.

I think one guy lost a freighter with like 5b or something in scammed **** he had just taken. Beyond that I haven't heard of anything.


You missed this part! (Make sure it is realistic!)
According to Manifest Destiny's KB it is 27 Goons killed with the loss of 1 ship and asset loss at 6.28 Billion, 99.01% efficiency.
Add to that the cost of Goons having to kill stations to transfer Sov makes me think you are really trying to create spin here.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#211 - 2012-11-11 12:05:44 UTC
hmmmm this all sounds a bit eerily familiar.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Ghazu
#212 - 2012-11-11 12:35:17 UTC
hmmmmm getout.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Courthouse
Perkone
Caldari State
#213 - 2012-11-11 13:32:53 UTC
...and for the record, two posts up is Jade calling punkturis a liar, which is pretty much the shittiest thing you can do.

https://twitter.com/CCP_Punkturis/status/267006103357898752




She'll always be the better woman, Jade. You'll have to come to accept that eventually.
Shylari Avada
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#214 - 2012-11-11 18:37:02 UTC
Miko Jin wrote:


You missed this part! (Make sure it is realistic!)
According to Manifest Destiny's KB it is 27 Goons killed with the loss of 1 ship and asset loss at 6.28 Billion, 99.01% efficiency.
Add to that the cost of Goons having to kill stations to transfer Sov makes me think you are really trying to create spin here.


The idea that the commingling of bad Dominion Sov mechanics combined with the limitations in place when an Alliance has nothing to do with any killboards or pub bites in empire. It's a bad mechanic married to an unthought out mechanic complicating the progression of entities with no ties to empire space.

While I imagine 6 Billion isk is something worth writing home about for you... It's less than the average losses of a single stratop in most cases, and due to the location of these losses of course the common goon response is to not care.bcongratulations to Manifest Destiny for killing an unscouted freighter and a few t1 industrials and a tegu that was hellbent on killing what he could and exploding in a glorious ball of fire.

Hey Jade- how'd that sending pictures of your penis for admission into PL situation play out?
Miko Jin
HELVEGEN
#215 - 2012-11-11 22:29:18 UTC
Shylari Avada wrote:
Miko Jin wrote:


You missed this part! (Make sure it is realistic!)
According to Manifest Destiny's KB it is 27 Goons killed with the loss of 1 ship and asset loss at 6.28 Billion, 99.01% efficiency.
Add to that the cost of Goons having to kill stations to transfer Sov makes me think you are really trying to create spin here.


The idea that the commingling of bad Dominion Sov mechanics combined with the limitations in place when an Alliance has nothing to do with any killboards or pub bites in empire. It's a bad mechanic married to an unthought out mechanic complicating the progression of entities with no ties to empire space.

While I imagine 6 Billion isk is something worth writing home about for you... It's less than the average losses of a single stratop in most cases, and due to the location of these losses of course the common goon response is to not care.bcongratulations to Manifest Destiny for killing an unscouted freighter and a few t1 industrials and a tegu that was hellbent on killing what he could and exploding in a glorious ball of fire.

Hey Jade- how'd that sending pictures of your ***** for admission into PL situation play out?


I am just an outside party watching this all unfold and the losses Goons have had in high sec is indeed nothing to write home about but coupled with the cost now of changing sov by you having to shoot your own assets in null sec shows it is affecting you more than just some losses in high sec. No doubt the war dec was a major fail and has been mentioned previously by certain members of Goonswarm, So continued attempts to justify it as nothing and we do not care is not being seen as convincing.
Far better if you would have come out and said it was a mistake than the continued trolling in an attempt to deflect the truth and the truth as I see it is that you got caught.
Shylari Avada
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#216 - 2012-11-12 01:04:07 UTC
Miko Jin wrote:

I am just an outside party watching this all unfold and the losses Goons have had in high sec is indeed nothing to write home about but coupled with the cost now of changing sov by you having to shoot your own assets in null sec shows it is affecting you more than just some losses in high sec. No doubt the war dec was a major fail and has been mentioned previously by certain members of Goonswarm, So continued attempts to justify it as nothing and we do not care is not being seen as convincing.
Far better if you would have come out and said it was a mistake than the continued trolling in an attempt to deflect the truth and the truth as I see it is that you got caught.


It's already been stated that the war being declared because some idiot couldn't defend his assets and is by and large considered foolish. Until the sov distribution, it wasn't even in the forefront of our mind, and like other wars just served as an annoying notification that caused our mail icon to blink incessantly.

Based on your previous posts, I'm assuming you don't grasp Dominion Sov mechanics, the only inconvenience about the war is that we have to 'flip' our stations to distribute the region within the Coalition, we don't need to 'kill' them or 'destroy' them (the latter is current impossible).

You need to understand that GoonSwarm is a very large entity, and a handful of people commenting on it should be expected. I mean, after all we are a community based on a certain forum that encourages posting- so it should be past expected and just deemed an absolute certainty that Goons are going to comment on it. Your attempts however to puppetmaster this into a Goons crying about a war however are tame and at this point it's difficult to judge what's more pathetic, your attempt or the people giving into it.


Fake Edit: using 'fail' as a noun makes you look like an unintelligent babbling idiot. Don't do that.
Miko Jin
HELVEGEN
#217 - 2012-11-12 06:55:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Miko Jin
Fake Edit: using 'fail' as a noun makes you look like an unintelligent babbling idiot. Don't do that.[/quote]

Unlike using pub bites,publord?

Instead of trying to troll everybody as has been stated numerous times before try a reasonable debate, This now is just looking like rage on Goonswarms part.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#218 - 2012-11-12 07:12:32 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Courthouse wrote:
...and for the record, two posts up is Jade calling punkturis a liar, which is pretty much the shittiest thing you can do.

.


No the shittiest thing you can do is at every turn out of ignorance or 'plausable deniability' protect the biggest greifers of the game from being griefed themselves at every turn which is happening now every change in the War decc mechanics Straight

So were the supposed HI SEC CSM's consulted about these HI SEC war decc changesQuestion or is it when a NULL SEC alliance is negitively affected by a HI SEC mechanics that the baby & the bathwater gets thrown out the window in the name of 'emergent gameplay'

So now we got one way griefing that NULL Alliances can impose on HI SEC once again ...
Jade Constantine wrote:

Goonswarm CAN effectively "forevergrief" anybody it pleases via the wardec system. Any corp/alliance in the game for an unlimited and enduring wardec at a neligable cost given the nullsec income of a super alliance. The core mechanics are deeply broken (GS pays a tiny fee to wardec a smaller entity while smaller entity pays a massively inflated fee to legitimately wardec GS (despite the vast majority of the targets one is paying for never coming to hisec - thus making a mockery of soundwave's logic on the issue) But any attempt to play reversal and trap or discomfort GS (or any other large alliance) utilizing these mechanics is seen as "unfair" and "unreasonable."
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Courthouse
Perkone
Caldari State
#219 - 2012-11-12 08:31:26 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Courthouse wrote:
...and for the record, two posts up is Jade calling punkturis a liar, which is pretty much the shittiest thing you can do.

.


No the shittiest thing you can do is at every turn out of ignorance or 'plausable deniability' protect the biggest greifers of the game from being griefed themselves at every turn which is happening now every change in the War decc mechanics Straight

So were the supposed HI SEC CSM's consulted about these HI SEC war decc changesQuestion or is it when a NULL SEC alliance is negitively affected by a HI SEC mechanics that the baby & the bathwater gets thrown out the window in the name of 'emergent gameplay'

So now we got one way griefing that NULL Alliances can impose on HI SEC once again ...


If you bothered to pay attention, you'd note that this has been an issue that was noticed and consulted on by the CSM (to which Goonswarm has no representative) and was done without the knowledge of goonswarm being in a war (because, hey, we really didn't give a ****) and was addressed in a manner that deals with the problems inherent with the current mechanic as illustrated in this thread.

Yes, goonswarm could foreverwar highsec if we wanted to. As it happens, we're rich. As it also happens, we aren't. There's something to be said for taking possibilities and projecting them as probabilities or certainties that qualifies people as being tinfoil hat wearing nutters. Jade Constantine is one of them. In the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, he still holds to the beleagured position that goonswarm is making foreverwars constantly against highsec instead of occasionally turning our eye to something fun and interesting to do when we're bored (we're gonna be bored soon.)
Shylari Avada
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#220 - 2012-11-12 10:21:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Shylari Avada
DarthNefarius wrote:


No the shittiest thing you can do is at every turn out of ignorance or 'plausable deniability' protect the biggest greifers of the game from being griefed themselves at every turn which is happening now every change in the War decc mechanics Straight

So were the supposed HI SEC CSM's consulted about these HI SEC war decc changesQuestion or is it when a NULL SEC alliance is negitively affected by a HI SEC mechanics that the baby & the bathwater gets thrown out the window in the name of 'emergent gameplay'


The current War Sec mechanics combined with Dominion Sov mechanics create unnecessary hardships for nullsec alliances; nothing that goes on in high sec except for the odd war to interdict logistical movements (because some alliances don't use out of alliance freighters) should impact the performance of the sovereignty process in nullsec, if you want to impact that part of the game- go to Null and do it.

Last I checked the only 'HI SEC CSM' is Issler Dainze and by and large from what everyone has said, has been inactive since getting onto the CSM itself, and the only activity even related to her supposed duties are piping up on Jita Park Speakers to take credit for something CCP implemented. On the other hand- Alekseyev Karrde has stated for months that the current implementation of WarDec mechanics is broken, and prone to exploit. If you genuinely have a problem with WarDec mechanics, talk to him.

I however, will never cease to find amusement whenever there is an announced change in direct relation to literally ANYTHING that is effecting GoonSwarm it's a GoonSpiracy and the hordes of Empire Dwellers leave Castle Ignorance and come pouring down PubLord Mountain to let everyone know we somehow control CCP and they are slaved minions to their fickle masters (Goons) whims and intentions. I guess our planted spies at CCP are doing the Lords work.