Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Guys this attempt to compare missiles with guns is just like someone trying to compare apples with oranges. All we know for sure is that they are both fruit.

It's normal to expect missiles and guns to behave differently and personally I think missiles are currently under-powered not over-powered. A weapon that takes ages to deliver damage to a target had better hit hard. Missiles don't hit hard enough.

I also support the idea that we should have a variety of missile ammunitions., short ranged high damage, long range weaker damage. This is true for other weapon types such as lasers, hybrids and projectiles so why not for missiles.

CCP Fozzie I disagree with reducing the DMG of heavy missiles and all of the above mention penaltie 2 heavy missiles... if u insist on doing it then buff hams so that they have a 15% long range or increases there range from what they are now to 32km (with lvl 5 skills) so that that ppl are incouraged 2 use hams for close heavies for kiting... if u reduce the damage of heavies the tengu will match the drake in dps most importanly because tengu has less missile slots then the drake... so u need 2 give a 10% buff 2 heavy missile bonus 2 the tengu (not the subsystem but the ship itself)... an other note is that drakes have always been more of a kitting ship so making them good with hams would make them match other ships... if u reduce range of hams 2 aprox 18km (max skills) and increase dmg output of them by 15% to match the dps of other close range bc's ull make the drake wanted and more balanced for close range battle verus long range battle... but keeping in mind making that change will still keep drakes popular for kiting with heavy missiles... that is all

might wanna cheack some of these facts mate the kestral has always been effective with all missle damages.

I dont even understand what this means? the drake ATM has a resist bonus and a Kinetic damage bonus, while caracal has kinetic damage and range. There are rumors of plans to change drake to ROF and range, but rumors are rumors.

The caracal is in a bad spot right now, as it lacks the PG and slots to fit anything resembling a tank when HML fit. the winter changes improved that, but crippled it's main weapon system too.



kestrels have a 5% bonus to all missile damage and a 10% bonus to kinetic, shooting non-kinetic ammo still costs you ~15% of your DPS. the bigger problem being that the kestrel needs to fit a micro aux power core just to have 4 launchers and a prop mod, giving it just 1 low and 3 meds to work with. As such it has a too thin a tank to PVP, and destroyers run L1 missions better anyways.

Most of the drone boats in game would like a word with you. o.0

Fit???

OGB links number and ship?

Boosters

Now if with all this you shouldn't be able to kill a couple ships solo or someone should die to the first couple frigs showing up on grid, then what would be the point of training for such expensive ship?
I only see a problem on this vid, that Legion horribly lacks of dps but has a very nasty tank.

Try fitting a plate on a BC, and then compare it to the drake. Beside, you know, there must be a fastest ship. And drake blob don't really care about the non instant damage, so is it really a problem ?

BTW, if you've read the thread, you'd know that a current drake (3BCS, working fit) can have only marginaly less dps than a cane at short range (like 5%@20km) but don't suffer the INSANE tracking problem the arty cane will have at this range. 2BCS fit is a little more to the advantage of the cane : dps difference is now between 10 and 15% @20km. Really, for that dps difference, below 20km, I take a drake above an arty cane any day. Then, farther than 25km, the drake even outdps a beam harbinger.

With 10% damage nerf, turrets will earn around 5km dps advantage, leaving the future drake king of medLR weapon between 30 and 50km (more if you add range rigs, then it's more like 75km).

Then there's fury HM : you can perfectly use them against any shield cruiser and larger, and your damages are higher than before with faction ammo...

What is fun is that current drake with fury HM only have 1 or 2% less dps than a arty cane at 20km.

About damage selection for missiles : there's complaint about the kin only bonus for some missiles boats. Though, what is overlooked is how this damage difference work : comparison must be done on the non resisted part of damage, the damage part that actually hit the ship.

Consider a rather standard shield tank (1 invul + EM rig) on a cane : resists are (EM54,72;TE51;KI63,25;EX69,38). Applyed damage are (EM45;TE49;KI37;EX31).

Call D your base damage (non bonused type), so kin damage will be D*1,25. Apply these damage for each type, applyed damage will be D*Bonus*non resisted part. We then have the damage modifier for each ammo type D*(EM 0,45 ; TE 0,49 ; KI 0,46 ; EX 0,31). Hence, for a EM riged+invul shield tank, you are better firing with inferno missiles despite the kinetic bonus, though the difference is marginal, and if you stick to kinetic, you will be better when hiting on armor. When T2 ships come into play, then you have true damage selection.

So, as you can see, 25% damage bonus is not enough for scourge to be always better than all the others. That give you incentive to use you racial damage type but you still have the opportunity swap ammo, and this opportunity is hell of a good idea. Ships can't always plug their hole, and if you know theere's a hole, you can exploit it. For everything else, there's your standard kinetic ammo.

Mind you, minmatar damage selection is worse than caldari damage selection. They don't have pure damage selection and are always hampered by some explo/kin damage. These non pure damage can seem rather low, though that can be enough to make no difference between an ideal ammo and a less ideal one. That make their ammo only good to exploit unpluged holes.

So yes, this kinetic bonus is here to alleviate your damage selection, because otherwise your ship would be able to exploit the tinest little hole a ship can have, and considering you even have T2 ammo with selectable damage, it's a rather big advantage.

it was still effective and persides after winter the kestral will have no such handicap even if the dps is lower than what it was. and if it had 4 launchers an mwd it was and is capable of 2.4k ms without overheat that alone is good enough to stay out of the way of most close range guns and fitting even a civi booster is enough for it to survive dps at the extream ranges it can operate on. and fyi i never had probs with it in pve as an ab kestral spitting missles at 30km when i first started was more than enough.

and i have tested the cara the cara has no fitting issues (except what to use all the slots for) and produces around 400 dps with hams at around 45 - 50 km ide say that a pritty good spot for th cara to be in and fyi it produces that dps with all dmg types.

dear ccp ,
- give the corax more PG . its pathetic . ( a combat fit flycatcher does better lol )
- nerf the algos ( way too op just look at the fitting possibilites and overall damage-tank )
- reset torpedo changes ( makes the Raven one of the most useless ships ingame )
- new UI is annoying as **** ( at least make it optional )
- Hurricane is overnerfed ( please stop balancing things that dont need to be balanced )

ty.