Player Features and Ideas Discussion

If Dust truly works out this way, then awesome. However, I don't see it really having any effect on the Eve market or even the relative value of isk.

Sure, a lot more of it will be dumped from the system, but there aren't many players that would be involved in the dust connection.

Also, we have such an established market in Eve that I don't see it having that much of an effect.

Costs won't get reduced on items, which effectively means that isk would still be considered the same relative value.



Here's the real problem though.

When CCP established Eve, the rewards given to players were extremey high, and the costs of items were extremely high.

So, what we consider to be the relative value of isk was established by CCP upon initial design.

Now, had they started Eve with rewards for NPC paid activities being 1/10th of what they are now, and sold NPC seeded items at 1/10th of what they had released them at, well, we would have a higher relative value to isk.

In Eve inflation is non-existant. Isk truly has no relative value.
It's all make believe.
Some players assume that the costs of items have gone up because the amount of isk in the system has been dramatically increased. This is not true.
The truth is that CCP and the players themselves have taken measures to reduce the amount of ITEMS on the market through CCP's hard push to kill bot mining, and player actions such as burn jita and the Gallente icecapades.
This have all effected the costs of items on the market.

See, unlike in the real world, there is no international government or banking conglomerate to determine the relative value of currency. Therefore, the introduction of more and more isk into the system is a non-factor.

The costs of items is based on the availability of those items and is in no way connected to the introduction of more isk into the system.

So, finding new ways to create isk dumps in the system will have no effect on the market apart from less people being able to afford certain items, thus building an abundance of that item which would reduce the relative value of that item due to competition.
So, again, inflation in Eve is the factor of the market and not the currency.

1 PLEX = 20 USD

So, if the plex ISK cost is increased, the RL vallue of isk goes down

Now the ingame price of the plex is 600kk isk, what means that every million isk worth 0,033 USD...

If the ingame price of the plex were 400kk isk like 1 year ago the milion isk would worth 0,05 USD...

This means that as the Play-to-Play prices starts to go up, eve will start to lose these players....

Add R&D ME Slots
Change R&D Pricing Formula (some are too cheap)

That would pull in plenty of ISK. They still would always be full. You still would be better off with a POS. The lines would be shorter, the ISK sink higher, and the cost difference between station and POS slots lower.

Add Items to LP Stores
Add New Faction Ships

Tax Ship Customization (paint jobs, per CSM Minutes)

NPC Escorts (not Concord, lowsec only)

Really, I don't want to see random taxes added. I want to see content added and a cost associated with it.

keep in mind that this is just 1 of many things... and step by step you can cross long distances...

I really, strongly believe the best option is to dramatically (x100) increase the line cost on S&I industry slots in highsec NPC stations.
(with significantly lower costs in lowsec and nullsec).

Currently, it typically costs 1000 ISK + 333 ISK/hour to do a highsec manufacturing run.
Increase this to 100k isk + 33.3 k isk / hour.

Now Produce 100 150mm light autocannon II's.

It requires 100 150mm autocannon I's ( @ 8 min / autocannon): Which would cost about 550k isk more to produce (5,000 isk / item).
It requires 400 Thermonuclear Trigger Units ( @ 2 min / unit): which would cost about 550k isk more to produce (1,375 isk / item).

It would then require constructing 100 autocannon II's (@ 1hr / item with PE -4). This would cost 3.5m isk more to produce (34.3k isk / item).

Overall, your 150mm light autocannon II increases in price from 700k isk to about 750k isk....

In exchange, all those Highsec Manufacturing slots sink 800k isk per day, or ~24m per month per line (assuming they run full time).

The average manufacturer would then sink 100m - 250m per toon per month... which would result in a trillion (or more) leaving the economy every month. In exchange, we see some minor increased prices, but no worse than we've seen over the past year!!!!! Note, items that have lots of components (like ships) would see a bigger increase, but so what...

Drawbacks:
some price increase to the end user.

Benefits:
Major isk sink (unless there is a mass exodus to POS manufacturing).
Encouragement for POS Manufacturing (if a large POS costs 400m / month to maintain, and bypasses these station taxes, it can easily be worth your time to build stuff in a POS!).
More Targets:

6 years ago having a few million isk meant you were richer than rich. Everyone I fly with have at minimum 10 billion isk in assets including myself and the ability to make a billion isk in a weekend or three days. Some folks have upwards of 20 or 50 billion isk they are sitting on in assets.

Here are some ideas or thoughts on new or already proposed ideas:

(first suggestion is an either/or. the idea changes completely as you read and tweaks the idea as you read)
1a. Limiting blueprint runs entirely from a seeded BPO at an NPC station is as I believe, a solid idea. You see, you basically buy a BPO, which has a limit on the number of runs, ammo having a ridiculously high run count, but reasonable enough that you'd run out after 4 or 6 months of solid production time, while a titan BPO would be a 5-run and yet still cost the same as it does. (incoming new stat to blueprints: "QL")

But WAIT, before you flip out on that last part understand this: You can refresh the blueprints back to their original state, which would also be a time-driven event, particularly not that long of a time. Something as complex as a Titan BPO would take a week or longer to restore using NPC-Seeded reagents to re-license and repair the blueprint. This reagent would be faction-based, so there would be four types of restoration reagents. And number of Runs would instead be changed to "Quality Level" where 100% is brand new and 0% is unreadable (unusable, thus needing restoration) Now you could also just add the Quality Level to a BPO and not limit its runs at all, which may go along a lot smoother with capsuleers than screwing manufacturers over completely.

If you are saying, "But, how can I read a blueprint and damage it?" Well, when you browse an online bookstore, you are given choices for NEW, Used, Like-New, Old, Damaged, Worthless, etc. right? You have crappier and crappier quality of books to a point where they are not worth anything due to being overused or poorly taken care of. You have to understand that as you set up a manufacturing order, is the entirety of this system automatic or are people handling the blueprints in the station, spilling coffee on the bp, bending the corners, folding it, getting it all out of order, etc. Restoring a bp takes a laboratory spot, btw.

Anywho.

1b. Copying a blueprint original would not harm its Runs (if those are chosen to be limited) but may deal minor damage to the Quality Level, thus someone making ISK from just copying say, capital component blueprints to sell in big bpc packs would slowly damage the bpo quality like a mining crystal or amarr faction crystal. Also making a copy would require a reagent all in its own called a Blank.

Blanks would have a size to them, to change the size of blueprints. Why is the blueprint for a small rail gun I the same size as a blueprint for an Orca? Would the blueprint for an Orca be significantly larger in m3? (somewhat unrelated, this whole m3 thing) But in short, then you would need to have these blank blueprints to be disposed of during the copying process, and each size-appropriate Blank would have to be purchased from an NPC industrial or science station with ISK.

This system would increase the overall costs of blueprints, increasing the market costs between players to balance, but forcing steady manufacturers and 0.0 alliances to occasionally return to empire to buy a blueprint.

- I personally believe that to perfect this system as an ISK sink would be to simply remove copies from the game entirely and just make a limited-run blueprint that is seeded at an npc station, and as you purchase these blueprints you can scale just how many runs you want the blueprint to allow you,

2. Removing Aurersrse whatever the heck it was called, and having ISK be used to buy clothes instead, would have been a much more brilliant idea than redeeming plex. CCP sank their own ship. They admitted the CQ "expansion" was an unnecessary mistake for its time, but they have yet to fix one of the biggest parts of that mistake. The currency for the clothing is not a proper isk sink, it is a plex sink. Make it the proper billions of isk for that monocle instead of having a plex have anything to even do with it. technically, yes, buying the plex to redeem to buy clothing is an isk sink, but it is also a plex sink.

3: ship insurance standing: the more you buy insurance and lose your ship, the more costly it becomes, and being killed by faction police or concord or self-destructing does not pay out. You also cannot receive insurance more than once a day.

I'm at work right now and I haven't managed to read most of the posts yet on this thread but I will as I find it interesting. I don't work as an economist but that was my educational background so the supply/demand concepts are in my wheel house and interest me.

It seems to me a very valid way to control sinks/faucets and fix low sec and 0.0 somewhat is to massively increase station taxes in high sec (and to a lesser degree in low sec) and do the same with refining. It should be far more efficient to refine in alliance owned stations so that alliances can properly tax their miners. In fact an enterprising alliance willing to provide protection to miners to bring their minerals into a station on the edge of 0.0 should be able to make a killing on refining taxes.

Either way you can push a lot of industry into 0.0 while creating a minor isk sink.

Then consider two of the bigger faucets rat bounties/wormhole blue loot.

Blue loot is the easiest to deal with, find a way to make it useful in building stuff and put it on the market. As soon as it's not sold to NPC's it is no longer a faucets. Actually you could do the same with overseers effects. Now i'm currently a wormhole dweller on my alts and I make a lot of isk from holes so trust me I don't want to see the income nerfed simply change it to items sold on the market not sold to NPC's and make sure these items are really valuable so wormholes are still worth living in.

Second, rat bounties could be changed in some way maybe half LP of some sort, or something along that line. I don't have any truly innovative ideas on this front but maybe somebody else would. Anyway, creating sinks is great but also closing up some faucets can help.

Finally, I think the real answer CCP needs is to have either a large sink or large faucet that they can directly control. Again innovative ideas are hard to come up with on the fly. But some in game way they can adjust rat bounties up or down by X percentage on the fly to increase or decrease money supply as needed. It would need to have some ingame justification. I'm still working on this one in my head.

its already hard enough to get into manufacturing into this game, you're only raising the entry barrier. people like me who are well established it's not a big deal but new blood is required to replace the gap in the bitter vets quitting and startup capital is already ridiculous. Also why do we need to front up for the "good" of the economy when we are clearly the least ISK fauceted gameplay style available? no, isk bounties need to go from anoms, to be replaced with LP and bpcs and deadspace/faction modules.

looks like CCP notice the problem with PLEX and is acting 2012.10.23 !!!!

Awesome!

sell clothes, hats, clown noses, bow ties, sunglassess whatever for ISK, and have them destroyed when you die. works with the paint job/custom logos on ships too

just my 2 isk

edit: Oh, and I'm not that old, but I remember reading that originally in Eve, rats had no bounty, they just dropped random loot. Can anybody confirm that?