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Fleet hangars and changes to various settings

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CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#321 - 2012-11-08 13:49:23 UTC
Sinzor Aumer wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Fleet hangars will now behave like normal cargo hold when it comes to ship scanners and loot drops (ie, will be scannable, and loot will drop from them)

FINALLY!!!!!111oneone

CCP Greyscale wrote:
We're adding five new non-compressive containers (from 250k m3 down to 1k m3)

Are they scanable/dropable?
Can they be launched from fleet-hangar and scooped back? Any timers to restrict spamming of those?
Can they be opened and looted when floating in space?
There are some limitations for using General Freight containers - are they applicable to those new cans? Why?
Can those be used on freighters? Why?

CCP Greyscale wrote:
For containers in a fleet hangar, only the pilot will ever be allowed to open or remove the container; other characters will only be able to drop into the container (with a warning)

Honestly, I think this is not a good decision. Fleet hangars are supposed to be usable by fleet. If the owner of the ship wants some stuff to be only accessable to him - it's when he uses normal cargo bay. I can understand the pilots of supercaps - they have to carry a lot of thing as they are not allowed to dock. I'd suggest to increase their cargo bay dramatically, same for fuel bay. As it was mentioned, noone is going to use supers as haulers anyway ;-)


Hey! Sorry for the late reply on this.

Quote:
Can they be launched from fleet-hangar and scooped back? Any timers to restrict spamming of those?
Can they be opened and looted when floating in space?
There are some limitations for using General Freight containers - are they applicable to those new cans? Why?
Can those be used on freighters? Why?


The new containers will act the same as old containers. This means you cannot eject them from your fleet hanger, but you can move them to your cargo bay and eject them from there. The same timers for ejecting stuff apply to all the containers, including the new ones.

The new containers if ejected into space and be opened and looted, same as all the other containers. Well all but the station containers.

What limitations are you speaking of regarding general freight containers?

Yes, these new containers can be used in freighters. We are allowing them to be used in freighters as they are the same capacity as they are volume.

Hope that helps. :)

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#322 - 2012-11-08 13:52:45 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:

Alli Othman wrote:
Changes are looking much better on the user end now.
I still see containers as an inferior way of managing that, but it's an adequate compromise so long as they actually work. The changes to scanability are great, can't wait for more orcas to actually be tanking out.

To clarify that I am indeed reading this portion correctly...
Quote:
Fleet hangars and ship maintenance arrays on ships both now have "allow fleet member use" and "allow corp member use" in the inventory UI

Each one has its own options now?


Yes.


It would be good to have that type of control at the container level or a second fleet hanger.

Any word if the containers size could be adjustable by the players so a container does not take up so muche extra space when not full?

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#323 - 2012-11-08 14:38:39 UTC
What about double-wrapped non-scannable containers, any word on those? Scannable fleet hangars is all well and good, but any future needs proper smuggling mechanics. People should be able to compromise space and mobility for safety, such as how it was with the Orca.

Still, any cargo should drop, even non-scannable cargo.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Lord Haur
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#324 - 2012-11-09 09:09:28 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:
What about double-wrapped non-scannable containers, any word on those? Scannable fleet hangars is all well and good, but any future needs proper smuggling mechanics. People should be able to compromise space and mobility for safety, such as how it was with the Orca.


Still, any cargo should drop, even non-scannable cargo.



That has more to do with the rubbish implementation of smuggling currently. Cargo scanning is literally 100% accurate, with the exception of non-scannable bays and double-wrapped items, the latter being a strong indication it's valuable.

A better implementation would be to have cargo scanners have a certain %age chance of detecting items, improvable with meta level and a (new?) skill. Perhaps also the possibility of showing something is there, but not showing what.

This could be coupled with a new smuggling skill, that gives players the option to disguise cargo (say as the meta-0 variation of that module). Detection would be based upon the cargo scanner's strength vs the smuggler's skills.

Also would give that extra bonus on snakes a proper use!
MisterAl tt1
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#325 - 2012-11-09 12:17:27 UTC
I'd recommend CCP to look for statistics, how many ISK is moved around highsec daily inside of Orca's hangars before doing these things. I'm sure they can.

It looks to me it can for a great part destroy any high-value production for sale.
Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#326 - 2012-11-09 18:42:58 UTC
Mirel Dystoph wrote:
CCP GingerDude wrote:

It's not divisions that are evil, it's the fact that all the different hangars on ships *are* divisions in tech-terms. The absolute horror that was corp hangars on ships was evil and that had to go. The goal was not to remove divisions, but without some seriously major work, we can't create divisions within divisions which is why they're unlikely to come back. Sorry.

If you're too fuckin' lazy to do it right, don't even dare to touch it.
Simple as that.

We don't want half-assed solutions, we don't want removed functionallity and we don't care if it's old, messed up code which glues everything together as long as it does it's job better than the new code.


This. It is your job. It's kinda what we pay you to do, is it not? Unless we are paying you to ignore us, your-client-who-is-paying-your-salary, in which case we shall cease to pay you to ignore us.

Also, why does my 'fleet hanger' close itself on every session change? (this also begs the question, how did you test this, and not notice it closed on session change (gate jump)???) Just another shovel of dirt that is starting to show that some of you Dev's need to get your heads out of La-La-Land and actually USE the game you are designing. 'Designing in a bubble' tactic is not known historically to work all that well.

http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing    < Unified Inventory is NOT ready...
Oraac Ensor
#327 - 2012-11-10 03:25:33 UTC
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
It's not really a nerf or buff to suicide ganking, just expanding the potential range of targets.

Shocked Eh!?

Care to explain how expanding the range of potential targets isn't a buff???
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#328 - 2012-11-11 03:19:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Grey Stormshadow
CCP GingerDude wrote:

Panhead4411 wrote:

Why can we not have atleast a 'personal' hanger and a 'fleet' and 'corp' versions as well. What is wrong with us being allowed to have private hangers without the need to clutter the hold up with password'ed containers?

Aren't you basically asking for a larger cargo hold here? And you don't need any passwords on them containers. No one but the pilot will be able to open/take them/from them as long as they're in the FH.

Have you considered the fact that the pilot might not want to micro manage items in FH. While there was divisions people with roles could take stuff by themselves if roles were set.

To get to this same point now you have to drop all stuff to FH floor (not to containers) and tolerate the mess. Not that this wouldn't be bad enough by itself you can't limit which corp members have access either. It's to all or none. Same goes with fleet hangar.

Seriously you're downgrading the system from being "ok" to level of "total junk".

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest
David Zahavi
Doomheim
#329 - 2012-11-11 08:02:42 UTC  |  Edited by: David Zahavi
Aphatasis wrote:
OK, here some thinkings:

Only the character flying the ship can remove the containers:
- What if the container-size is bigger than the real cargo of the ship? 3k m³ container in the corp hangar of a supercarrier => u need a pos to remove it or move it to another carrier. Or can u just "jettison" the container right out of the corp hangar?

If u have a container with (let's say) 25k m³ in a titan to store things like your named turrets, bridge mod, dd mod and it's full, so have to put stuff in the public corp hangar where it can be stolen. But if u have fitted most/all the mod of the large sizes, then the container is nearly empty, but public there are only 75k m³ avaiable cause the empty container need the space.

Why not: Make 2 tabs, private and public area. so u don't need to bring containers to the supers.

And: Will the pilot be able to rename the container on their own? ATM u can't and have to bring container to a station to rename it.

Will ships in the ship maintainance bays dropp too if the carrier/supercarrier/titan/rorqual/orca get's destroyed? If not, y not?

Awesome thing on the removing of the fitting-service-limitation. Was one of the most useless things i ever encountered when i got my first carrier!


This. So much this.

Why isnt this getting a response?

This container situation is a very limiting and tedious factor to be added into the game, and seems very sub-optimal. If you're going to implement something new, do it right the first time, and don't make the situation worse.
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#330 - 2012-11-11 12:32:55 UTC
David Zahavi wrote:
Aphatasis wrote:
OK, here some thinkings:

Only the character flying the ship can remove the containers:
- What if the container-size is bigger than the real cargo of the ship? 3k m³ container in the corp hangar of a supercarrier => u need a pos to remove it or move it to another carrier. Or can u just "jettison" the container right out of the corp hangar?

If u have a container with (let's say) 25k m³ in a titan to store things like your named turrets, bridge mod, dd mod and it's full, so have to put stuff in the public corp hangar where it can be stolen. But if u have fitted most/all the mod of the large sizes, then the container is nearly empty, but public there are only 75k m³ avaiable cause the empty container need the space.

Why not: Make 2 tabs, private and public area. so u don't need to bring containers to the supers.

And: Will the pilot be able to rename the container on their own? ATM u can't and have to bring container to a station to rename it.

Will ships in the ship maintainance bays dropp too if the carrier/supercarrier/titan/rorqual/orca get's destroyed? If not, y not?

Awesome thing on the removing of the fitting-service-limitation. Was one of the most useless things i ever encountered when i got my first carrier!


This. So much this.

Why isnt this getting a response?

This container situation is a very limiting and tedious factor to be added into the game, and seems very sub-optimal. If you're going to implement something new, do it right the first time, and don't make the situation worse.


I will pass a link to this post along to the guys working on this.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
Myxx
The Scope
#331 - 2012-11-12 05:07:39 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Ok, so here's our current complete plan:


  • Corp hangars *on ships* are now fleet hangars
  • Volumes will all stay the same
  • Divisions are gone, as is any other reliance on corp roles
  • Ship fitting array is always available to everyone in your corp and/or your fleet
  • Ship fitting arrays on ships and starbases no longer restrict the number of characters that can use them simulataneously
  • Fleet hangars and ship maintenance arrays on ships both now have "allow fleet member use" and "allow corp member use" in the inventory UI
  • We're adding five new non-compressive containers (from 250k m3 down to 1k m3)
  • For containers in a fleet hangar, only the pilot will ever be allowed to open or remove the container; other characters will only be able to drop into the container (with a warning)
  • Fleet hangars will now behave like normal cargo hold when it comes to ship scanners and loot drops (ie, will be scannable, and loot will drop from them)


We're hoping this will be the final set of adjustments, but obviously we're reading the feedback here :)

-Greyscale

Have you ever *flown* a carrier or another capital before?
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#332 - 2012-11-12 12:54:37 UTC
Myxx wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Ok, so here's our current complete plan:

load of rubbish...

We're hoping this will be the final set of adjustments, but obviously we're reading the feedback here :)

-Greyscale

Have you ever *flown* a carrier or another capital before?



Anyone who has flown a Capital ship in combat would know this. It really is no-brainer. It is pretty clear that the Devs that are pushing this fiasco have never done that. If they had, they would not have entertained this idea, even for a second. Poncing around in a Super on SISI, really isn’t the same. Seriously.

It’s another example of CCP “fixing” something, where the result is far more cumbersome, time consuming and annoying than before the said “fix”.

Okay, so the code was messed up, if you are not prepared to put in the work to sort out new code without losing functionality then leave it alone. I know full well the complexities of Corp Management, and it does need looking at, but not at the expense of losing a function that is fundamental in Cap warfare

This really is the worst idea you have come up with since the Unified Inventory. Look how that worked out, it still isn't finished months later.

Please stop being such asshats and LISTEN to us about the divisions having to stay. Containers just do not give the same functionality.

If you can't do it, then leave it in its current state until you can.
Pierced Brosmen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#333 - 2012-11-12 13:18:27 UTC
Rommiee wrote:
If you can't do it, then leave it in its current state until you can.

We said that about the unified inventory while it was in this stage before release and we know how that went... Don't expect this to be any different.

However, the affect this has for the orca pilots, it will be interesting to see how many expensive orca ganks that will follow the patch due to people being ignorant of what gets changed and how that may affect them.
Ulitmately this might further boost the business for the few specialized freight corps in New Eden.
CaptainFalcon07
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
#334 - 2012-11-13 03:39:29 UTC
NO to Containers CCP.

We want Divisions, Not some containers to replace them.

This is a sloppy and lazy idea.
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#335 - 2012-11-13 13:10:44 UTC
Pierced Brosmen wrote:
Rommiee wrote:
If you can't do it, then leave it in its current state until you can.

We said that about the unified inventory while it was in this stage before release and we know how that went... Don't expect this to be any different.



Yeah, I know. I was one of the many people giving feedback on SiSi, all of which were subsequently ignored.

Nothing changes. So much for Hilmar's apology after the CQ disaster, promising that the new CCP would actually listen to the playerbase, and not just pretend to.
nikon56
UnSkilleD Inc.
#336 - 2012-11-13 13:40:53 UTC
Rommiee wrote:
Myxx wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Ok, so here's our current complete plan:

load of rubbish...

We're hoping this will be the final set of adjustments, but obviously we're reading the feedback here :)

-Greyscale

Have you ever *flown* a carrier or another capital before?



Anyone who has flown a Capital ship in combat would know this. It really is no-brainer. It is pretty clear that the Devs that are pushing this fiasco have never done that. If they had, they would not have entertained this idea, even for a second. Poncing around in a Super on SISI, really isn’t the same. Seriously.

It’s another example of CCP “fixing” something, where the result is far more cumbersome, time consuming and annoying than before the said “fix”.

Okay, so the code was messed up, if you are not prepared to put in the work to sort out new code without losing functionality then leave it alone. I know full well the complexities of Corp Management, and it does need looking at, but not at the expense of losing a function that is fundamental in Cap warfare

This really is the worst idea you have come up with since the Unified Inventory. Look how that worked out, it still isn't finished months later.

Please stop being such asshats and LISTEN to us about the divisions having to stay. Containers just do not give the same functionality.

If you can't do it, then leave it in its current state until you can.

nothing more to add.
CCP, go fly a carrier in combat, or listen to us.

this idea is BAD, bite the bullet, get rid of it.

or this will end up worse than the unified inventory (wich is still, many month later, a F***G pain in the butt to use)

roles need to be assigned to fleet hangar divisions. period.
nikon56
UnSkilleD Inc.
#337 - 2012-11-13 13:42:33 UTC
Pierced Brosmen wrote:
Rommiee wrote:
If you can't do it, then leave it in its current state until you can.

We said that about the unified inventory while it was in this stage before release and we know how that went... Don't expect this to be any different.

However, the affect this has for the orca pilots, it will be interesting to see how many expensive orca ganks that will follow the patch due to people being ignorant of what gets changed and how that may affect them.
Ulitmately this might further boost the business for the few specialized freight corps in New Eden.

to be honest, this part make sense, it was not logical that some hangar were not scannable or didn't dropped item
nikon56
UnSkilleD Inc.
#338 - 2012-11-13 13:43:59 UTC  |  Edited by: nikon56
Rommiee wrote:
Pierced Brosmen wrote:
Rommiee wrote:
If you can't do it, then leave it in its current state until you can.

We said that about the unified inventory while it was in this stage before release and we know how that went... Don't expect this to be any different.



Yeah, I know. I was one of the many people giving feedback on SiSi, all of which were subsequently ignored.

Nothing changes. So much for Hilmar's apology after the CQ disaster, promising that the new CCP would actually listen to the playerbase, and not just pretend to.




and after that came the unified inventory, that nobody wanted but CCP, and here, we are still locked using this bugged peace of crap
Pierced Brosmen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#339 - 2012-11-13 14:45:24 UTC
nikon56 wrote:
Pierced Brosmen wrote:
Rommiee wrote:
If you can't do it, then leave it in its current state until you can.

We said that about the unified inventory while it was in this stage before release and we know how that went... Don't expect this to be any different.

However, the affect this has for the orca pilots, it will be interesting to see how many expensive orca ganks that will follow the patch due to people being ignorant of what gets changed and how that may affect them.
Ulitmately this might further boost the business for the few specialized freight corps in New Eden.

to be honest, this part make sense, it was not logical that some hangar were not scannable or didn't dropped item

This is not about cargo being scannable... Hell I'm all for that. The complaint is about the loss of functionality when 7 hangar divisions (wouldn't have to be that many, really) is condensed down to one single open hangar.
nikon56
UnSkilleD Inc.
#340 - 2012-11-13 14:48:16 UTC
Pierced Brosmen wrote:
nikon56 wrote:
Pierced Brosmen wrote:
Rommiee wrote:
If you can't do it, then leave it in its current state until you can.

We said that about the unified inventory while it was in this stage before release and we know how that went... Don't expect this to be any different.

However, the affect this has for the orca pilots, it will be interesting to see how many expensive orca ganks that will follow the patch due to people being ignorant of what gets changed and how that may affect them.
Ulitmately this might further boost the business for the few specialized freight corps in New Eden.

to be honest, this part make sense, it was not logical that some hangar were not scannable or didn't dropped item

This is not about cargo being scannable... Hell I'm all for that. The complaint is about the loss of functionality when 7 hangar divisions (wouldn't have to be that many, really) is condensed down to one single open hangar.

absolutely, that's why i made the comment just above the one you quotedSmile