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Nerf Moaning Null Bears PLS
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Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#441 - 2012-11-09 21:45:12 UTC
Natasha Liao wrote:
*chuckle* I believe I already said: ask Null Sec folks. All of you would know better than I would what changes could or should be made. I have also already said: I do not live in Null Sec. I will not address problems that all of you would know better. As for refine percentages, etc. of HS vs Null and everyones much touted risk/reward comparisons: The game has graduated areas of security. Anyone who lives in Null knew going into it that it wasn't HS and players made the rules.

I'm probably one of the rare HS people who will stand up and say your area of the game should be looked at, fixed up and made somewhat fun and enjoyable: But my sticking up for all of you does have it's limits. Pick words out and try to make your side of the discussion all you want. I'm actually just as heartless and uncaring about Null as you Null Sec'er are about HS ( and any HS'er/carebear is more than welcome to copy this ):

The HS player base is not responsible for any problems in Null. Outside of any game mechanics, CCP is not responsible for your problems. You willingly chose to live and play in the area of the game with no rules and the players drive the content. Nobody forced you to make your in game home there. If there's a problem, Null Sec people need to collectively look in the mirror and see where the problem lies. Point your finger all you want at HS and carebears trying to assign blame. Now look where the rest of your fingers are pointing. Any nerfing of HS right on up to removing it will not fix your problem with your player created content and game play. For every one of your "Boo hoo, Woe is me" posts, my response is the same you've given us: "STFU, HTFU and adapt. Or GTFO." All of you collectively made your bed, now lay in it.

So NO(!) I don't really give a rats' ass about Null. You folks make it more work and effort than it's really worth.

The "problems" we have aren't caused by players, they're caused by CCP. They're not doing a good enough job at incentivizing people who are in nullsec, shooting eachother, to actually live there as well.

So let's recap what the suggestions are:
1) Massively increase manufacturing capacity in nullsec and make refineries available in the same station
2) Reduce compressed ore refinery in hisec
3) Increase manufacturing costs in all NPC stations
4) Increase market transaction costs in all NPC stations
5) Let station owners set their own market transaction cost
6) Reduce refinery efficiency in all NPC stations
If sufficient isk sinks have been added to the game so as to reduce/remove the monetary inflation issue:
7a) Increase nullsec ratting payouts
Otherwise
7b1) Add more/increase isk sinks
7b2) Increase nullsec ratting payouts
if it's impossible to get isk sinks up to an appropriate level:
7c1) Decrease hisec payouts
7c2) Increase nullsec payouts

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#442 - 2012-11-09 22:00:40 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
The "problems" we have aren't caused by players, they're caused by CCP. They're not doing a good enough job at incentivizing people who are in nullsec, shooting eachother, to actually live there as well.


All they've done for years now is add more isk faucets and other incentives to 0.0 in an effort to get people to move there. On top of that, every new feature like PI is only worth doing in lowsec and 0.0, but the majority of people still refuse to go to those places.

So more incentive will not change anything, but i can't blame you guys for simply wanting more isk.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#443 - 2012-11-09 22:39:39 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
The "problems" we have aren't caused by players, they're caused by CCP. They're not doing a good enough job at incentivizing people who are in nullsec, shooting eachother, to actually live there as well.


All they've done for years now is add more isk faucets and other incentives to 0.0 in an effort to get people to move there.

what an embarassing post
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#444 - 2012-11-09 22:54:26 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:

So let's recap what the suggestions are:
1) Massively increase manufacturing capacity in nullsec and make refineries available in the same station
2) Reduce compressed ore refinery in hisec
3) Increase manufacturing costs in all NPC stations
4) Increase market transaction costs in all NPC stations
5) Let station owners set their own market transaction cost
6) Reduce refinery efficiency in all NPC stations
If sufficient isk sinks have been added to the game so as to reduce/remove the monetary inflation issue:
7a) Increase nullsec ratting payouts
Otherwise
7b1) Add more/increase isk sinks
7b2) Increase nullsec ratting payouts
if it's impossible to get isk sinks up to an appropriate level:
7c1) Decrease hisec payouts
7c2) Increase nullsec payouts


I would add to this offices.

As part of the stations they need to dramatically increase office counts. To remotely be viable for production in null, the location has to have a refinery near or at perfect (if highsec is also perfect), massive numbers of production slots, and offices. Offices provide hangers and security/roles/audits and corporation based production. Critical.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
Natasha Liao
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#445 - 2012-11-09 23:02:15 UTC
For all your ISK faucets, sinks and fees you mentioned Zim ( yeah - this time I will make it all about you ), you seem to forget the counter to that. You even mentioned it as yet another of your complaints someplace back there -> 600mil ISK PLEX. I can buy 2 of them right now for $34.99. $35 bucks and I too can be an instant Eve Billionaire. For $99.99 I can get 6 PLEX and turn that into 3.6bil. That's probably more ISK than I've made since '08.

While I let it slide and didn't bite on your PLEX comment before, I will now. Tell me again about all those big, bad unfair risk/reward OMF-in'G High Sec ISK faucets. Tell me more about how stupidly easy it is to grind ISK in High Sec. Tell me again how much 'risk' it is I should gone through to have made 600mil ISK. As long as people can turn real money into ISK, any argument about people having too much ISK, no risk ISK or any other 'too much ISK' complaint in respect to High Sec, LowSec or NullSec is moot, full of crap and invalid IMO.

You're using logic on an internet discussion forum. A rookie mistake, but one you'll soon learn to avoid. -Destiny Corrupted
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#446 - 2012-11-09 23:07:26 UTC
so the risk-reward balance of EVE should not be fixed because... people can buy PLEX?
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#447 - 2012-11-09 23:24:57 UTC
Natasha Liao wrote:
For all your ISK faucets, sinks and fees you mentioned Zim ( yeah - this time I will make it all about you ), you seem to forget the counter to that. You even mentioned it as yet another of your complaints someplace back there -> 600mil ISK PLEX.

That's not a counter, that's a direct result of isk faucets vastly outperforming isk sinks (even including all the isk which ccp sreegs is taking out of the economy by banning/removing botted/RMTed isk). One PLEX were around 400m or so a year ago, 250m or so 2-3 years ago etc.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Natasha Liao
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#448 - 2012-11-09 23:28:22 UTC
Since you either tl;dr'd it, or just chose to ignore it Nicolo:
wrote:
Tell me again about all those big, bad unfair risk/reward OMF-in'G High Sec ISK faucets. Tell me more about how stupidly easy it is to grind ISK in High Sec. Tell me again how much 'risk' it is I should gone through to have made 600mil ISK.

All of you want to harp and complain about ISK faucets. You rant and rave about how much risk I'm supposed to have making that ISK. $35 off my CC and a little of my time selling the PLEX and a faucet turns on to the tune of 1.2bil. No risk, no work and easy money. And that's not exclusive to just us HS players. I've heard Null players partake in this activity too. Anyone can turn that 600mil ISK faucet on if they so choose.

You're using logic on an internet discussion forum. A rookie mistake, but one you'll soon learn to avoid. -Destiny Corrupted
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#449 - 2012-11-09 23:32:14 UTC
Natasha Liao wrote:
Since you either tl;dr'd it, or just chose to ignore it Nicolo:
wrote:
Tell me again about all those big, bad unfair risk/reward OMF-in'G High Sec ISK faucets. Tell me more about how stupidly easy it is to grind ISK in High Sec. Tell me again how much 'risk' it is I should gone through to have made 600mil ISK.

All of you want to harp and complain about ISK faucets. You rant and rave about how much risk I'm supposed to have making that ISK. $35 off my CC and a little of my time selling the PLEX and a faucet turns on to the tune of 1.2bil. No risk, no work and easy money. And that's not exclusive to just us HS players. I've heard Null players partake in this activity too. Anyone can turn that 600mil ISK faucet on if they so choose.

PLEX isn't an ISK faucet.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#450 - 2012-11-09 23:32:45 UTC
Do you even understand the meaning behind the term "isk faucet"?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#451 - 2012-11-09 23:32:51 UTC
Natasha Liao wrote:
Since you either tl;dr'd it, or just chose to ignore it Nicolo:
wrote:
Tell me again about all those big, bad unfair risk/reward OMF-in'G High Sec ISK faucets. Tell me more about how stupidly easy it is to grind ISK in High Sec. Tell me again how much 'risk' it is I should gone through to have made 600mil ISK.

All of you want to harp and complain about ISK faucets. You rant and rave about how much risk I'm supposed to have making that ISK. $35 off my CC and a little of my time selling the PLEX and a faucet turns on to the tune of 1.2bil. No risk, no work and easy money. And that's not exclusive to just us HS players. I've heard Null players partake in this activity too. Anyone can turn that 600mil ISK faucet on if they so choose.

Ooooo, so close.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#452 - 2012-11-09 23:36:31 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Do you even understand the meaning behind the term "isk faucet"?

Shouldn't that answer be obvious?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Natasha Liao
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#453 - 2012-11-09 23:50:37 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
That's not a counter, that's a direct result of isk faucets vastly outperforming isk sinks (even including all the isk which ccp sreegs is taking out of the economy by banning/removing botted/RMTed isk). One PLEX were around 400m or so a year ago, 250m or so 2-3 years ago etc.

You're picking little parts out and trolling again Zim. 600mil is a very good COUNTER against any sink or fee ( your terms. go read your own post ). You also seem to be ignoring: $35 = 1.2bil ISK. Yeah ... there's an ISK faucet in Eve alright. Only it's not exclusive to HS. It doesn't originate there. It's on the account management page. The launcher even has a link to it. I wouldn't doubt a lot of people take advantage of that risk ( and work ) free ISK.

So tell me all of you 'you have to have risk/reward ratio' Null Sec people: How many of you made some easy ISK with a PLEX? Or are you afraid to admit you violated the Holy ISK risk/reward mantra? We know you looked. You clicked that link on accident, I know...

You're using logic on an internet discussion forum. A rookie mistake, but one you'll soon learn to avoid. -Destiny Corrupted
Natasha Liao
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#454 - 2012-11-09 23:51:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Natasha Liao
Oops - forum hiccup. These are not the droids you are looking for.

You're using logic on an internet discussion forum. A rookie mistake, but one you'll soon learn to avoid. -Destiny Corrupted
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#455 - 2012-11-09 23:52:13 UTC
You seem to be ignoring "PLEX is not an isk sink".

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Natasha Liao
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#456 - 2012-11-10 00:02:56 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Do you even understand the meaning behind the term "isk faucet"?

Shouldn't that answer be obvious?

And did all of you skim over the discussion during Monoclegate about P2W and PLEX? You go through a step or two and you get ISK from a non-Eve related activity. Or is the tactic now to argue it's not really a source of ISK so you can continue to claim HS is an unfair, risk free source of ISK?

You're using logic on an internet discussion forum. A rookie mistake, but one you'll soon learn to avoid. -Destiny Corrupted
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#457 - 2012-11-10 00:18:39 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:

The "problems" we have aren't caused by players, they're caused by CCP. They're not doing a good enough job at incentivizing people who are in nullsec, shooting eachother, to actually live there as well.


Hah right. Nullsec is fine. If you and your alliances don't like your space, abandon it.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#458 - 2012-11-10 00:20:03 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:

The "problems" we have aren't caused by players, they're caused by CCP. They're not doing a good enough job at incentivizing people who are in nullsec, shooting eachother, to actually live there as well.


Hah right. Nullsec is fine. If you and your alliances don't like your space, abandon it.

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the finest example of Missing The Point.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#459 - 2012-11-10 00:22:54 UTC
Natasha Liao wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Do you even understand the meaning behind the term "isk faucet"?

Shouldn't that answer be obvious?

And did all of you skim over the discussion during Monoclegate about P2W and PLEX? You go through a step or two and you get ISK from a non-Eve related activity. Or is the tactic now to argue it's not really a source of ISK so you can continue to claim HS is an unfair, risk free source of ISK?

You seem to be ignoring "PLEX is not an isk sink".

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#460 - 2012-11-10 00:27:27 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Sentamon wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:

The "problems" we have aren't caused by players, they're caused by CCP. They're not doing a good enough job at incentivizing people who are in nullsec, shooting eachother, to actually live there as well.


Hah right. Nullsec is fine. If you and your alliances don't like your space, abandon it.

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the finest example of Missing The Point.


No it's you that misses the point of Nullsec.

If industrial capacity for your 100,000 man alliance is too low in Null, then take more space or quit zerging and crying so Nullsec won't suck for you so much.

I take it the great exodus from Null for the riches of Highsec won't be happening anytime soon? Roll

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~