EVE General Discussion

Honour.. in EVE? Never, ever expect it from others. That's just the way Eve is. Eve is one of the few games which allows a**hats to do their thing while actually encouraging a**hats to be a**hats.

I think some are missing that honor is defined by some by "doing what is right" or appropriate.
Some seem convinced that to play eve with honor is dumb and not doing it right.

I am glad that I am not alone in my attitude.
But don't get me wrong, I certainly would not want everyone to have my attitude

Is there honor in Eve?

First define what you mean by honor and then the answer will become obvious. Try reading what Wiki has to say about the meaning of honor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honour

"Honour is a code of behaviour that defines the duties of an individual within a social group. Margaret Visser observes that in an honour-based society 'a person is what he or she is in the eyes of other people'."

So if a group of players banded together to do massive scamming and theft, they are a society (within a larger society: the game) and their mutual scamming would be honorable within their group. Consequently if one of the group pulled a scam on another one within the group, it would be honorable to those within the group. To somone outside of their group they might be dishonorable, but only in comparison to a different set of social rules.

I think the original post actually mis-used the word "honor" in an attempt to ask whether his personal set of rules had a place within Eve. In that case the answer would be yes since it is a sandbox where any set of personal rules are perfectly fine. And if he finds a group of other players with similar behavior rules, they can form a small society within the larger society where their sense of honor matches each other. Or he can even play solo with a small society consisting of only himself.

Is there any particular set of personal or societal rules that are not considered acceptable within Eve? The answer is simply that any behavior is acceptable as long as a GM does not object. In life we have our personal belief system, peer acceptance, social behavior rules, social laws, religion and other behavior modifications. In a game such as Eve we have similar behavior modifications. We log in with our personal beliefs, we group with others to form a peer group, we have a perceived Eve players accepted behavior, GM "laws" and other behavior modifications. But the only one with teeth is the almighty power of God (the GM) looking over your logs. The rest are simply social behavior modifications and are able to be adopted or ignored.

Yes, there is a place for honor within Eve. Find a corp that fits your personal beliefs and be honorable within your corp. If they're scammers, liers and thieves, rip off the corp and laugh. If they try to teach and help newbies, find a newbie to mentor. Whatever your social group does, do it well and you have achieved an honorable game experience.

This is the answer i was hoping and looking for. I have realized for a long time that behavior is very situational and dependent on ones surroundings and associations. I guess i was just looking for some validation and that i was not alone in the way i see things.

I thank you all for your input.

Fixed 4U

Also: No

Trust: Yes

Did he just suggest that James315 is a dishonorable "rabid beast"?

I have a sneaking suspicion OP may have been bumped off an asteroid in a past life.

I realized this right off. I was surprised when it seemed that nobody else seemed to understand this.
And that a wise hunter practices conservation today in order to be able to hunt tomorrow.
Of course if you kill them all today, then you can go play WOW tomorrow.



I have not had any personal contact with James315 or his organization. What I know is what i have read on his blog site and references in other blogs, and on the forums.

And correct me if I misunderstand, he and his organization are selling protection from being harassed by himself and his organization. I fail to see the difference between that and the protection rackets that the Mafia and gangs practice to day.

This is true ^ ... also probably jumpfreighter karma.

I don't know. I started doing a lot better in EvE when I crossed over to the dark side, I'll say that. However, I also find that honesty is the best policy when it comes to doing deals with people. Once they trust you and you trust then you can achieve bigger things together than you could on your own. So I guess it's context dependent. If you have a ship locked down and they pay you a ransom, there's really no reason I can see to actually honor it. Blow them up anyway and get the loot too. If you're doing big serious business don't ever think about screwing over your partners or nobody is going to do business with you again. Sorry... there's no clear cut answer.

Newbies!

Nothing like having newbies buzzing around in T1 frigates.

Honor is a tricky thing, some might say that honor is irrealivant or silly in a game, while other may disagree, some view honor something to be kept, others as something to spend, trying to enforce honor is like trying to enforce morality, it rarely ends well.

I say it does have a place in EVE, but in different ways, for different people, and in this game, it's unpredicable at best/