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Mining - are the figures unrealistic?
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Jewel teyla
Decree of Insane Drunken Coat
#1 - 2012-11-08 14:12:45 UTC
So last night I sat down with an attempt to prove a point to myself.

So here are the figures I came up with and the set up I used

Orca pilot - t1 fleet booster + big can - no implants!!!!
Hulk pilot - t2 crystals + 2x MLU2 + 5x  t1 mining drones
Hulk pilot - t2 crystals + 2x MLU2 + 5x t1 mining drones
Hulk pilot - t2 crystals + 2x MLU2
Covetor pilot - strip miner 1's + 1x MLU2 + combat drones

None of the pilots had implants to mining of any kind as they are all combat pilots who happen to be able to fly hulks from the old days.

So here goes, it here are rumours that a top hulk pilot can fill 5.5 cans an hour on its own so technically I should fill roughly4-4.5 per hulk and 2.5 on the con pilot. That's 14.5 cans an hour (not going to happen I knew before I started)

Start timer, So undocked in fleet and warp to belt, engage gang links and start the hulks mining.

Can 1 - 8minutes 33 seconds
Can 2 - 5 minutes 36 seconds
Can 3 - 9 minutes 24 seconds
Can 4 - 10 minutes 3 seconds
Can 5 - 10 minutes 47 seconds

So what do I put this down to, well can 1 incorporated all the warp to and set up time. Can 2 was easy due to having the same roids and no changes being required however by can 3 the roids were depleting and more management would be required as they were 1 cycle jobbies.

So without adding implants at 200 million a clone and mining director implant at 900 million a pop  and t2 drones where could I improve this?

By the end of the hour I had earnt around 40 million but I should of filled the orca 3x over on miners predictions. 

Jewel
Kynlea
Serotonin Inc.
#2 - 2012-11-08 14:50:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Kynlea
Work on your boosting skills, also you get a fairly sizable boost once you put implants in your guys. The mining foreman mindlink on your Orca will be the biggest boost.

T2 Mining Drones are worth it.

In other words, I do not know exactly how many cans I fill in a hour, but with better fleet boosts/drones I am sure you could drastically increase your yield.

edit: It would probably have helped if I read all of your message before I replied, if you don't want drones or implants -- Just work on boosting skills and get T2 Mining Links.
TheSkeptic
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-11-08 16:13:34 UTC
Were you using survey scanners or just waiting for the roids to pop before changing targets?

If you're not using scanners, you're wasting cycles which explains your poor times.

...

Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#4 - 2012-11-08 16:18:45 UTC
- An orca boost with poor skills is not much of a Boost. With skills at 4 and not implant you are probably getting around 15-20% Boost. With max skills and the mining foreman implant you can get a max I believe 50-60% boost. ( at work don't have the figures in front of me.)

- 5 T2 mining drones are basically equal to a 4th strip, they are well worth getting. they not only have higher yield but are faster.

- a 3% yield implant is cheap and the increase in yield is noticeable

- T2 strips with T2 crystals is not enough. You need the mining skills of the pilots maxed out as well. and get exhumers skill to at least 4.

It is easy to set up a mining fleet to make 10-15 mil isk an hour per ship. Average skills, no implants, mild ORCA boost. Yeah your not going to make a lot. Maxed skills, maxed yield, 5% implants, max orca boost. Now your making 20-25 mil per hour per ship. It is all the little bits that add up to maximum yield.

It is like taking your completely stock daily driver car to the race track and wondering why it can not compete with the modified finely tuned race cars.

For example when I was 19 I took my daily driver 5.0 mustang to the track to see what it could do. It was mostly stock but I had played with the timing a bit to get a little more out of it. Drove it to the track. I ran a 14.2 quarter mile. My friend also had a 5.0 mustang but had it done up for the track. Beefed up engine, gears, slicks, etc. had to trailer it to the track, he ran an 11.4 quarter mile. While we were there we saw another 5.0 mustang that was professionally modified for the drag strip. Twin turbo engine with NOS, Custom gears, traction bars, top quality slicks, and a very experienced skilled driver. He ran a 9.3 quarter mile.

Moral of the story is, If you want to get the best yield, you need the best skills and equipment.
Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#5 - 2012-11-08 17:08:56 UTC
Use the mining tab in the program linked in my sig. No need to do such exhaustive tests for yield.

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Jewel teyla
Decree of Insane Drunken Coat
#6 - 2012-11-08 18:18:29 UTC
Zifrian wrote:
Use the mining tab in the program linked in my sig. No need to do such exhaustive tests for yield.



Its telling me even with max skills, implants and booster you can only make 11.7M an hour mining Veldspar not the 25M people claim

Ummmmm
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-11-08 18:57:51 UTC
Jewel teyla wrote:
So last night I sat down with an attempt to prove a point to myself.

So here are the figures I came up with and the set up I used

Orca pilot - t1 fleet booster + big can - no implants!!!!
Hulk pilot - t2 crystals + 2x MLU2 + 5x  t1 mining drones
Hulk pilot - t2 crystals + 2x MLU2 + 5x t1 mining drones
Hulk pilot - t2 crystals + 2x MLU2
Covetor pilot - strip miner 1's + 1x MLU2 + combat drones

None of the pilots had implants to mining of any kind as they are all combat pilots who happen to be able to fly hulks from the old days.

So here goes, it here are rumours that a top hulk pilot can fill 5.5 cans an hour on its own so technically I should fill roughly4-4.5 per hulk and 2.5 on the con pilot. That's 14.5 cans an hour (not going to happen I knew before I started)

Start timer, So undocked in fleet and warp to belt, engage gang links and start the hulks mining.

Can 1 - 8minutes 33 seconds
Can 2 - 5 minutes 36 seconds
Can 3 - 9 minutes 24 seconds
Can 4 - 10 minutes 3 seconds
Can 5 - 10 minutes 47 seconds

So what do I put this down to, well can 1 incorporated all the warp to and set up time. Can 2 was easy due to having the same roids and no changes being required however by can 3 the roids were depleting and more management would be required as they were 1 cycle jobbies.

So without adding implants at 200 million a clone and mining director implant at 900 million a pop  and t2 drones where could I improve this?

By the end of the hour I had earnt around 40 million but I should of filled the orca 3x over on miners predictions. 

Jewel


T2 mining drones are worth the training time and extra cost.
Mining drones I : 187.5M3/minute - 2,333,760isk/hour
Mining drones II: 312.5M3/minute - 3,893,760isk/hour
Mining drones II + mining drone augmenter : 343.8m3/minute - 4,293,120 isk/hour

As you can see Mining drones II with the augmenter is almost double of just T1 mining drones.
So with your 4 mining ships using mining drones II + augmenters, and your orca using Just T2 drones you're looking at 21,066,240 isk/hour Compared to your 4 mining ships using just T1 drones, and not mining with your orca yielding 9,335,040 isk/hour or a difference of 11,731,200 isk/hour

Go with a +3 implant. It saves you the 10 days cyber V and 4 days science V, and they are dirt cheap. You can buy them easily with the LP you gain from grinding standings for refining no problem as well. Yes the loss of 2% yield/hour sucks, but 3+ is better then nothing.

Other then that really it just comes down to location. Try finding an area with low activity, and pay attention to ore prices to make sure you're mining the most profitable ore at the moment.
Dave Stark
#8 - 2012-11-08 19:04:15 UTC
+3% implants are cheap and awesome.
t2 drones are absolutely amazing.
get t2 links and the foreman implant. honestly the foreman mindlink will make the most difference as that's a 50% link bonus for all the other pilots, it's huge.
beyond that it's training more yield skills, exhumer V, etc
also having your orca packing a survey scanner so you don't waste part of your cycle on asteroids about to pop will increase your yield but makes it more fiddly.
Rengerel en Distel
#9 - 2012-11-08 19:33:24 UTC
I'd have to assume most people running 4 miners and a hulk aren't just mining veldspar, but they're clearing the belt. if you have them all sitting on top of each other mining the same rocks, it's not a surprise you're going to have horrible yields.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#10 - 2012-11-08 20:12:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Bugsy VanHalen
Jewel teyla wrote:
Zifrian wrote:
Use the mining tab in the program linked in my sig. No need to do such exhaustive tests for yield.



Its telling me even with max skills, implants and booster you can only make 11.7M an hour mining Veldspar not the 25M people claim

Ummmmm


Well when I mine I use 3 Hulks and an ORCA. I make dam near 100 mil per hour. (95-100) divide that by 4 accounts thats dam near 25 mil per account per hour. Using those same 4 accounts to run level 4 missions I have a hard time doing better than that. Although missions are far less boring.

P.S. you must be missing a few check boxes, because I just checked isk per hour with my skills and my orca boost it comes to 24-25 mil per hour with out drones . with max skills, max orca boost, mining mind link, T2 gang links, mining implant, and again no drones it shows 30-33 mil per hour. You must be missing some key factors.

Fitting T2 strips with T2 crystals, and 2 x MLU II in the low slots. 3% or 5% yield implant in hulk pilot.

ORCA - mining forman 5, mining director 5, warfare link 5, mining forman mind link implant, T2 laser optimization and range gang links,

Even without ORCA boost with my skills(not maxed) I get 17-18 mil/hr

You got to be missing something to come up with such a low number.

or are you calculating for ice instead of ore. That is down to around 10 mil/hr as it can be easily AFKed.
Dave Stark
#11 - 2012-11-08 22:49:05 UTC
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
I'd have to assume most people running 4 miners and a hulk aren't just mining veldspar, but they're clearing the belt. if you have them all sitting on top of each other mining the same rocks, it's not a surprise you're going to have horrible yields.


with 4 miners, ideally you want them all on different types of ore, so stripping the belt is probably most viable.
Ditra Vorthran
Caldari Imports and Exports
#12 - 2012-11-08 23:33:21 UTC
Running an max skilled orca with T2 gang links, mining foreman implant, and two tanked (not yield) hulks, I can fill a can in approximately 6 - 8 minutes.

I could probably increase my yield by a good 20% if I used MLUs instead.

"Miners mine so I don't have to." ~Metal Icarus
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2012-11-09 00:36:51 UTC
Ditra Vorthran wrote:
Running an max skilled orca with T2 gang links, mining foreman implant, and two tanked (not yield) hulks, I can fill a can in approximately 6 - 8 minutes.

I could probably increase my yield by a good 20% if I used MLUs instead.

You're mining in a hulk not set for max yield and using strip miner I's? A rokh with mining drones will out yield this....
Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#14 - 2012-11-09 00:51:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Zifrian
Jewel teyla wrote:
Zifrian wrote:
Use the mining tab in the program linked in my sig. No need to do such exhaustive tests for yield.



Its telling me even with max skills, implants and booster you can only make 11.7M an hour mining Veldspar not the 25M people claim

Ummmmm

Check your prices. I get 31mil using Jita with max all. Also, if you don't want to refine then make sure the ore prices are set to what you expect. They don't get updated much on market updates. I show 17mil an hour using ore prices instead of refined mineral prices.

http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/3577/minedy.jpg

Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!

Import CCP's SDE - EVE SDE Database Builder
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#15 - 2012-11-09 08:54:34 UTC
You could go all-out for efficiency: build a cycle table for each ore type.

So for each ore type across the table, and "number of units" down the table, each cell represents the number of complete cycles of your hulk's strip miners for that amount of that ore type. Then you survey scan the entire field, and start tagging the rocks from biggest to smallest, using the number from the table. Pick the largest amount in the left hand column that is smaller than the amount of ore in the rock.

Now it's up to your miners: they target the rocks that they're assigned to mine and count that many cycles for each laser (one laser per rock throughout the whole fleet, so no rock should have more than one laser).

Anal Retentive? probably. Obsessive-Compulsive? Most likely.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
PhatController
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-11-09 14:11:18 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
You could go all-out for efficiency: build a cycle table for each ore type.

So for each ore type across the table, and "number of units" down the table, each cell represents the number of complete cycles of your hulk's strip miners for that amount of that ore type. Then you survey scan the entire field, and start tagging the rocks from biggest to smallest, using the number from the table. Pick the largest amount in the left hand column that is smaller than the amount of ore in the rock.

Now it's up to your miners: they target the rocks that they're assigned to mine and count that many cycles for each laser (one laser per rock throughout the whole fleet, so no rock should have more than one laser).

Anal Retentive? probably. Obsessive-Compulsive? Most likely.


Probably not a viable option for someone multi boxing 4-5 miners.
Ditra Vorthran
Caldari Imports and Exports
#17 - 2012-11-09 22:32:11 UTC
Styth spiting wrote:
Ditra Vorthran wrote:
Running an max skilled orca with T2 gang links, mining foreman implant, and two tanked (not yield) hulks, I can fill a can in approximately 6 - 8 minutes.

I could probably increase my yield by a good 20% if I used MLUs instead.

You're mining in a hulk not set for max yield and using strip miner I's? A rokh with mining drones will out yield this....


Check the yields. A yield fit mackinaw outperforms a tanked hulk by about 16k m3/hour, less than one can. A tanked Hulk has double (or more) the EHP of a yield fit mackinaw.

I'm much more able to survive a gank with a marginal loss of yield.

And I'm not using strip miner Is. I'm using T2 lasers and T2 mining drones.

As long as you have hauling support, hulks are the way to go.

And yield fit hulks are why gankers laugh at us.

"Miners mine so I don't have to." ~Metal Icarus