Wormholes

Tengu?

Yea just kidding.

someone was nice enough to put rough DPS values in Eve-survival.

http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=WormholeSpaceClass4

I would say from experience they are a pretty good guage. of thank you will need.

I haven't noticed much trouble with the neuting personally. I would think as long as you have good guardian pilots, ones that only need one cap transfer for each other and 2 available for the fleet would cover the neuting issue.

Everyone bring light drones and they should clear out the frigs. Yea you may lose some from time to time, but they aren't that expensive.

With 2 logi 5 guardians I'd say more dps and less tank.
Guardians can take quite the dps and neuting incoming.

Your biggest issue using battleships is mass on wh if your not doing it in home.
How about using 3 absolutions or 3 zealots combined with 2 guardians. I'd try out if that would work.

We use a single Basilisk for all anoms in C4s. Double guardian will easily tank it in a 4-2 setup leaving energy to spare if they are logi 5 pilots. Abaddons are fine, but Armageddons can be similarly effective with less cap issues, so check the numbers on it. With pulse fits and 3x tracking enhancers our geddon hits out to 81km with scorch. Tach abaddons may have an easier time but may suffer from cap or tracking issues on some of the cruisers. Just make sure to have 5x hobgoblins for frigates and vespa ec-600s if you miss some gankers coming in.

Edit: reread first post, you dont need that much EHP if your guardians are any good. Go for 70% resist all and approximately 10k armor hp. Then, under projected effects, add whichever remote armor repper you use (solace hopefully) up to 1 guardian's max output, and then both. Make sure this number is at least over 1000 omni tank from one, preferably more, and over 1600 from both. Those are the dps thresholds you want to cover for anomalies. You want 2k for the hard mag/radar sites.

Final edit (maybe): you will need a signal amplifier or sensor booster to target out for enough in many cases. Don't be afraid of enegized adaptive nanos, use hardeners only where necessary. Try to fit some tracking computers for optimal and tracking, and swap rigs to fit resist holes or shore up your armor.

Svo.

Tbh the reason I answered that is that he stated "We have access to c4 sites". Which is rather funny wording instead of "we live in a c4" and hence I assumed they were travelling there through a static.

Regarding mass of c4's I have no clue what so ever. Only ever cycled c5's and c6's. - and I never fly battleships.

Roger that.

I used to run C4's with myself, using a single basilisk paired with a nightmare. When other people were online we just added more dps ships. Due to the low sig radius, logi's only need about 600ish dps tank (against the anoms), or about 800ish in radars/mags. Using 2 guardians in the standard 4 large rep 2 large cap transfer setup will provide more than enough tank for the logi, as long as your pilots are smart enough to see who is getting primaried and switch reps. For battleship sized targets, I needed about 1200dps tanked in anoms, and around 1500ish dps tanked in radars/mags, which is well within the range of what an unbonused logi can accomplish. Just aim for 70%+ resists and about 10k armor hp and you'll be good (note, that means you don't need a plate on an abaddon).

As for DPS, the majority of targets like to hover between the 30 and 60km mark in C4 sites, which means that aside from swatting frigs and cruisers, you want to try to maximize your dps at 60km (and preferably have enough range to go out farther).

If anyone has t2 pulse lasers, you can get the necessary ranges with megapulse lasers and scorch on an apoc using just 2 tracking computers. This would allow them to hit at 60 easily, and still have good tracking for swatting cruisers. An apoc with t2 megabeams, 2 TC 2's, and 2 heatsink 2's does only slightly less dps than the pulse/scorch fit, but can use multi-frequency out to 60km. I know you said you can't use t2, but I tend to put them on to get a maximum idea picture. This means that if you were flying an apoc, beams are going to be better than pulse unless you have t2 (and possibly even then, due to not burning through scorch quite as much). Another thing to note about the apoc - with maxed skills its cap stable with just 2 cap recharger 2's on, with some buffer cap as well (they can probably take 1 BS neut without problems, maybe 2 for the pulse fit).

Example beam fit:
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Explosive Membrane II
Kinetic Plating II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L

Large Anti-Thermic Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Ancillary Current Router I

Switching to an abaddon, you gain the resist bonus and a damage bonus, but you have more cap problems, and you loose the range bonus. For the abaddon, you would be good with 2 IN EANM's and a t2 explosive membrane for tank ( you don't need any other hardeners). Without the IN EANM's, you might also want a kinetic membrane or rig. An optimal fit for an abaddon would be something like this:

[Abaddon, Beam]
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Energized Explosive Membrane II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Xray L
Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Xray L
Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Xray L
Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Xray L
Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Xray L
Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Xray L
Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Xray L
Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Xray L

Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II
Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II
Large Ancillary Current Router I

Swap scripts as needed. Not cap stable, but lasts long enough that you'll be good with only occasional bursts of cap from the logi's. multifrequency gives you an effective range of 50-60km with optimal scripts loaded, switch to x-ray after 60km.

Hope this helps

-Arazel

lol at cap-chaining T3s.

In answer to the actual part of that question: even with a Logistics in the fleet you can often obtain higher or equivalent DPS values than with Tengus due to limitations on range and ship class.

Example: 3 Tengus running a C5 fleet firing Scourge Fury is around 1500-1600 dps (ISH, not exact) and swap for Caldari Navy as needed on frigates (about 1200-1400 dps).

Example 2: 1 Basi, 1 Shield-Tanked Gank Dominix, 1 Raven: Basi can provide up to 97 dps from hobgoblins (we usually save that drone space for ec-300s), Dominix provides 1100 DPS at close range, 950 at long range (~96km), and Raven provides 450-550+ DPS at any range before drones.

Result: close to the same DPS and tank, but you've reduced the risk on the field by almost 2.5 billion ISK.

Svo.

Agreed: the fit I'm talking about uses passive shield resist mods that are faction, so the tank is actually much higher than is needed for a C4 site. The fit also uses a couple of Caldari Navy BCS'.

I'd be more concerned about the fact that you're worried about people dropping on you than anything else :P

Svo.

Thank you all very much for the replies. I have been reading and keeping up to date on the thread and have been building my plan. I expect I'll be able to test the Abaddon setup in about a week.

Knowing I don't need to add an armor plate was very helpful. The link to the C4 sites in eve-survival was awesome as well. Our 2 logi pilots are both at Logi IV so we are trying to figure out that piece. We are in a magnetar system so that helps quite a bit on dps. Between 2 Abaddons and 2 Guardians we should have the necessary drones to take out the frigs while the Abaddons work on the battleships/cruisers. I am a bit concerned about range as my range with Imperial Navy Multi is 36+29 and I have read that the BS can be as far out as 90km.

I also appreciate the evaluation of RR Tengu cost vs 2xGuardian and 2xAbaddon setup. We are first time wormholers and moving into the WH and getting everything setup has been expensive so cost efficiency is important. We are in a C4 with a static C1 primarily to reduce the chance of being kicked out. We can roll the C1 and solo the sites when no one is online, or we can work on our home C4 when the sites are there and everyone is online. Between the sites and PI our endeavor should be more profitable than hi/lo sec but more importantly....

Wormhole space is a LOAD of fun and has created an awesome corp atmosphere of team survival. I'm hooked!

This. WH pilots are the nicest people I've ever been podded by.