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Baiting the baiters
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Fort Knockers
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-11-09 16:21:09 UTC
DISCLAIMER: No tears here...

I'm a noob-ish (playing 7-8 weeks) hi-sec carebear, looking to get some ship PvP in and counter a problem that keeps re-occurring to me, now that my 'main' can run lvl 3 security missions.

The 'problem' (I'm not crying in the least, hense the quotes) is now that I have a mission capable ship for soloing or duo-ing lvl-3s, in the last 4-5 missions, had my stuff looted and wrecks salved by ninja's looking for a fight almost every time. Well, this last time, I decided to take the bait. And I shot. And it missed. And his little frig warped away. And I stayed on site. And he came back with a much better ship. And I died (but did not cry). Took my licks, realized what I did. And tried to come up with a counter.

Like I said, looking to get into some PvP but I don't currently run w/ a large group. So, while literally shaking of the adrenalin rush, I thought of this, but I'm not sure if the mechanics work like I think they do.

Use my pittance of insurance money and replace lost ship (again, no tears). Then get a couple of my corp mates, who are also looking into ship PvP, who are (nooby) covert-ops explorers to come into mission site, cloak up then follow.

When the ninja arrives (assuming small ship, to pick a fight with then return w/ bigger ship) and steals cargo (not salv), he'll be fair for the missioner to shoot. Missioner aligns to some place safe then shoots. Ninja shoots back. Now (and this is really the crux of the post) the covert-ops (being in corp) now have the right to un-cloak and (hopefully) pin and take ninja quick. If successful, every one runs back to dock to wait out the 15 minute timer.

The other thing I'm not sure is: If it does work, how many times could you do it until word got around? And could that actually make missioning for said mission safer or invite Retribution?

Maybe I've got this all wrong, in which case, troll away. I deserve it.

And no, I'm obliviously not posting on my main as I do not wish to give my location away.

Discuss.
highonpop
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2012-11-09 16:27:35 UTC  |  Edited by: highonpop
The mecahnics will work, if he steals your stuff he agros your entire corp.

But

Having a couple bombers unloack and try to kill a frigate will end badly for the bombers.

1 - They have to get in close range to point... bad business fora bomber
2 - They will most likely be using torps, which do **** damage to a frigate

If the guy knows what he is doing, he will just get in close on the bombers and kill them 1 at a time. Bombers have very little (if any) tank on them.

Torp bombers are best in groups against large targets.


EDIT:

Have your corp mates get in pvp frigates/destros/crusiers and put a cloak on them. They wont be able to warp cloaked, but they will be able to sit still and cloak. Have them warp to you, get 150km + away from your mission site and sit there until someone comes along to ninja you. Once the person is red, they should decloak and warp down to you and point the ninja

FC, what do?
SevenBitBrian
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-11-09 16:30:26 UTC
Have the bombers stayed cloaked until he comes back in his bigger ship, then have them uncloak and all of you pop him.

7bitworld.org
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-11-09 16:41:55 UTC
SevenBitBrian wrote:
Have the bombers stayed cloaked until he comes back in his bigger ship, then have them uncloak and all of you pop him.

+ fit ship "unusual way": put point (disruptor) on it and stronger tank.

SO main ship will hold and tank while bombers will kill target from safe distance. To improve result you can put 1-2 target painters (only if your tank is armor)

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
IQ 001
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-11-09 17:13:42 UTC
highonpop wrote:

1 - They have to get in close range to point... bad business fora bomber
2 - They will most likely be using torps, which do **** damage to a frigate

If the guy knows what he is doing, he will just get in close on the bombers and kill them 1 at a time. Bombers have very little (if any) tank on them.

Torp bombers are best in groups against large targets.



get ur corpies to use combat helios's!

they do not have a decloak timer before they can lock!

they are fit like this!

AB, Web, Scram, 2x tracking disruptors with range disruption

2 of these vs any solo ship will incap the solo ship unless it has a neut...

1 helios fit like this can orbit at 9km while pinning the target using scram and web, the disruptors keep his range gimped or his tracking fubar'ed

tracking disruptor ships that are not traditionally 'anti frigate'
range disrupt ships that are tradiationl anti frigate - including other frigates.

this combat helios can solo attack and kill a trasher!
Kari Juptris
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#6 - 2012-11-09 17:21:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Kari Juptris
Bombers against Frigates? Are you daft?

If you want to go the cloaky route, go with a Rapier or two. You could even have a destroyer cloaked up off grid, which could warp to the Rapier when it came time to spring the trap. If you feel like springing for a bit of bling, a stabber fleet issue will make quick work of most frigates.

edit: Bombers have just about no tank and their weapon systems are designed for hitting battleships and larger, not tiny fast moving frigates. Frigates rip bombers to shreads.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#7 - 2012-11-09 17:31:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Epeen
I'm not going to offer any advice but I will say congratulations.

You are opening up a whole new part of EVE that a lot of people will never experience. You will lose more ships and (hopefully) have a great time doing it. You will also make them lose ships and have an even better time.

Mr Epeen Cool
Alaekessa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
#8 - 2012-11-09 17:44:39 UTC
I have heard great things regarding unconventional bomber fits using Rockets + Point or even 200mm AC + point. Also, if you're not adverse to "blobbing" the ninja, get all of the rocket bombers to engage at once.

Keep in mind, I've never used these set ups personally, though I have heard great things. 200mm AC + point can almost 1v1 T1 frigs depending on your skills, so if you've got more than one of them and you're not adverse to potentially losing one, I'd say go with that.

Aside from that, keep doing what you are doing, play Eve your way and don't be afraid to stand up for your right to do so.
stoicfaux
#9 - 2012-11-09 18:19:55 UTC
< Insert master baiter joke here >

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#10 - 2012-11-09 18:22:42 UTC
Fort Knockers wrote:
DISCLAIMER: No tears here...

I'm a noob-ish (playing 7-8 weeks) hi-sec carebear, looking to get some ship PvP in and counter a problem that keeps re-occurring to me, now that my 'main' can run lvl 3 security missions.

The 'problem' (I'm not crying in the least, hense the quotes) is now that I have a mission capable ship for soloing or duo-ing lvl-3s, in the last 4-5 missions, had my stuff looted and wrecks salved by ninja's looking for a fight almost every time. Well, this last time, I decided to take the bait. And I shot. And it missed. And his little frig warped away. And I stayed on site. And he came back with a much better ship. And I died (but did not cry). Took my licks, realized what I did. And tried to come up with a counter.

Like I said, looking to get into some PvP but I don't currently run w/ a large group. So, while literally shaking of the adrenalin rush, I thought of this, but I'm not sure if the mechanics work like I think they do.

Use my pittance of insurance money and replace lost ship (again, no tears). Then get a couple of my corp mates, who are also looking into ship PvP, who are (nooby) covert-ops explorers to come into mission site, cloak up then follow.

When the ninja arrives (assuming small ship, to pick a fight with then return w/ bigger ship) and steals cargo (not salv), he'll be fair for the missioner to shoot. Missioner aligns to some place safe then shoots. Ninja shoots back. Now (and this is really the crux of the post) the covert-ops (being in corp) now have the right to un-cloak and (hopefully) pin and take ninja quick. If successful, every one runs back to dock to wait out the 15 minute timer.

The other thing I'm not sure is: If it does work, how many times could you do it until word got around? And could that actually make missioning for said mission safer or invite Retribution?

Maybe I've got this all wrong, in which case, troll away. I deserve it.

And no, I'm obliviously not posting on my main as I do not wish to give my location away.

Discuss.

You make more ISK per hour and more standings gains by not looting or salvaging, anyway. Your "problem" is not a problem at all.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Fort Knockers
Doomheim
#11 - 2012-11-09 18:36:47 UTC
Thanks for all the positive feedback.

I should have mentioned in OP that the covert-ops ships were frigates. I'm sure one corp mate is Caldari and flying a Buzzard, not sure on the other. No one has stepped up to bombers yet. Maybe that changes some of the advice? Welcomes the trolls?

I don't know.

This is one 'carebear' that ain't gonna cry. Just try until I come out on top.
Alaekessa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
#12 - 2012-11-09 18:44:35 UTC
TBH, if they can fly CovOps frigs, they can fly Bombers. Rockets are also much easier to get into than Torps.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#13 - 2012-11-09 18:45:26 UTC
highonpop wrote:
The mecahnics will work, if he steals your stuff he agros your entire corp.

But

Having a couple bombers unloack and try to kill a frigate will end badly for the bombers.

1 - They have to get in close range to point... bad business fora bomber
2 - They will most likely be using torps, which do **** damage to a frigate

If the guy knows what he is doing, he will just get in close on the bombers and kill them 1 at a time. Bombers have very little (if any) tank on them.

Torp bombers are best in groups against large targets.


EDIT:

Have your corp mates get in pvp frigates/destros/crusiers and put a cloak on them. They wont be able to warp cloaked, but they will be able to sit still and cloak. Have them warp to you, get 150km + away from your mission site and sit there until someone comes along to ninja you. Once the person is red, they should decloak and warp down to you and point the ninja



Because hot drops major tackle and dps is..ho wait ! BOMBERS !

Doesn't really matters if the guy manages to kill one or two because he will unless it's a very stupid high sec pvp pubbie, the moment you kill it and you'll (probably) get some nice lewt from it.
The only and major problem you will have to deal with is OGB and reps.

Instead of dozen bombers simply just bring 1 T1 logi and 1 T1 ECM ship in case he brings logistic help, throw at his face ecm drones, suck his cap, blow it up send it to hell and mock it in local showing his kill (that WILL often be a snowflake full of nice stuff)

Collect tears, profit.

brb
Kari Juptris
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#14 - 2012-11-09 18:48:15 UTC
Here's an AC/Rocket hound fit: http://i.imgur.com/lh5Ls.jpg

All in all I really don't like it. The tank is beefier than I expected, but you're honestly better off flying an assault frigate if you can swing it. Adapt the fit for other races, and if someone wants to fly a buzzard you should probably shield tank it.
Alaekessa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
#15 - 2012-11-09 19:04:11 UTC
I'm curious why you armor tanked a hound...

This is how I would've set it up

[Hound, High-Sec Ninja Slayer]

Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

1MN Afterburner II
Warp Scrambler II
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Rocket Launcher II, Nova Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Nova Rage Rocket
200mm AutoCannon II, Hail S
200mm AutoCannon II, Hail S

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Core Defense Field Extender I

EHP: 4979
DPS: 106

Toss a few of them at the ninja and watch him fill local with tears.
Bunnie Hop
Bunny Knights
#16 - 2012-11-09 19:13:09 UTC
It sounds like you are doing missions in a terrible location. Its been at least 3 years since anyone has scanned out my fleet in a mission and I do them alot (probably about 15 to 20 hours a week). I would bet you are in caldari space, lots of muppetry there. Some areas are just not worth having to deal with the children.
Kari Juptris
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#17 - 2012-11-09 19:16:47 UTC
I wanted the web to counter high speed AB frigates. Those 200mm autos are going to have a hard time tracking something that is right up on you and moving at frig AB speeds. I suspect the rockets would fare well though.
Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts.
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#18 - 2012-11-09 19:16:51 UTC
Fort Knockers wrote:
And no, I'm obliviously not posting on my main as I do not wish to give my location away.


I love this typo.

And with the crimewatch changes in Retribution, when said ninja flips your can you can call in all of local to come kill him while not having to fire a shot yourself.

Member of the Pink Pony Killboard Padding Alliance
Alaekessa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
#19 - 2012-11-09 19:22:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Alaekessa
I can understand wanting to fit the web, TBH, if they're doing this with multiple bombers, only one should fit the scram.

I'd swap the scram on the other bombers for a web, tracking disruptor and target painter (assuming 4 hounds).

EDIT: maybe two webs and the tracking disruptor as another alternative
Kari Juptris
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#20 - 2012-11-09 19:29:14 UTC
Yeah, if you're going to do it in a small group it opens up a lot of opportunities for alternate fits and a shield tank. I put mine together with a 1 on 1 in mind.
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