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[Proposal] Fix Crimewatch before forcing it upon us

Author
Astrovert
Fun Times Mining
#1 - 2012-11-02 17:17:53 UTC
The problem after examining CCP's new "Crimewatch" seems to lay with looting, it is hard to understand how fixing a broken
mechanic with another broken mechanic makes any sense.

To get to the point rather, it seems that the entire big fix to others looting illegal is to flag that person so he can get attacked by anyone. It sounds good at first, but what exactly is to stop this person from just dropping a jetcan then looting into it for his corp to loot. Which by the way then flags the original owner back into the same situation. This kind of stupid can ownership looting can only be the dreamchild of a shortsighted person. While this is what our current system is, this new change will in term only make it so every ganking thief just has to incorporate a suicider in a rookie ship to get what they want.

Take it like this, if you go and steal a car, and then, you park it in a garage and a friend takes it, are the police going to stop looking for it because you gave it away? Well in essence crime watch says yes, this isnt real, this is stupid.

The answer and hold on, it isnt an easy on. The answer is every single item has its own individual timer. Every stolen item regardless of what it is, flags the new owner since it is in essence....stolen. Now these timers can easily start after it is only stolen the first time, so they dont keep resetting, but it is a much better and real solution then just saying the rookie ship absorbed all the "crime".

thank you for your time
chopper14
Emo Rage Quit
#2 - 2012-11-05 02:12:25 UTC
I'm not going to say that I don't like this exploit, because I do.
What I like more is that the new bounty system is planning on letting anyone place a bounty on anyone else regardless of their sec status!

Check it out

Quote:

Bounties can now be placed from anywhere in the game, not just the Bounty Office in stations. Bounties on the same character go into a joint pool, same as now. The minimum ISK amount for placing a bounty is increased from 5k to 100k. Also, bounties can now be placed on anyone, we’re removing the -1 security standing requirement currently in the bounty system.


Poor miners......
HAHAHAHA!!!
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#3 - 2012-11-05 03:18:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Corina Jarr
chopper14 wrote:
I'm not going to say that I don't like this exploit, because I do.
What I like more is that the new bounty system is planning on letting anyone place a bounty on anyone else regardless of their sec status!

Check it out

Quote:

Bounties can now be placed from anywhere in the game, not just the Bounty Office in stations. Bounties on the same character go into a joint pool, same as now. The minimum ISK amount for placing a bounty is increased from 5k to 100k. Also, bounties can now be placed on anyone, we’re removing the -1 security standing requirement currently in the bounty system.


Poor miners......
HAHAHAHA!!!

Not like that isn't going to be abused to hell and back.Lol

Somehow I feel this is not the desired fix to the bounty system we have been asking for.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#4 - 2012-11-05 09:34:11 UTC
Astrovert wrote:
The problem after examining CCP's new "Crimewatch" seems to lay with looting, it is hard to understand how fixing a broken
mechanic with another broken mechanic makes any sense.

To get to the point rather, it seems that the entire big fix to others looting illegal is to flag that person so he can get attacked by anyone. It sounds good at first, but what exactly is to stop this person from just dropping a jetcan then looting into it for his corp to loot. Which by the way then flags the original owner back into the same situation. This kind of stupid can ownership looting can only be the dreamchild of a shortsighted person. While this is what our current system is, this new change will in term only make it so every ganking thief just has to incorporate a suicider in a rookie ship to get what they want.

Take it like this, if you go and steal a car, and then, you park it in a garage and a friend takes it, are the police going to stop looking for it because you gave it away? Well in essence crime watch says yes, this isnt real, this is stupid.

The answer and hold on, it isnt an easy on. The answer is every single item has its own individual timer. Every stolen item regardless of what it is, flags the new owner since it is in essence....stolen. Now these timers can easily start after it is only stolen the first time, so they dont keep resetting, but it is a much better and real solution then just saying the rookie ship absorbed all the "crime".

thank you for your time


Oh please, taking from a can generating a global crime flag is already massive overkill, suggesting that it be taken even further so flipping the item gives even more people that global crime flag is ridiculous.

Astrovert
Fun Times Mining
#5 - 2012-11-05 18:45:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Astrovert
TheGunslinger42 wrote:

Oh please, taking from a can generating a global crime flag is already massive overkill, suggesting that it be taken even further so flipping the item gives even more people that global crime flag is ridiculous.



Its overkill to generate a flag from stealing from a can? What?

So stealing without consequence is real?
Thats about as unreal as you could take this game.

Please come to my house and steal something we will see how "overkill" my reaction is.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#6 - 2012-11-05 21:33:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
Astrovert wrote:
The problem after examining CCP's new "Crimewatch" seems to lay with looting, it is hard to understand how fixing a broken
mechanic with another broken mechanic makes any sense.

To get to the point rather, it seems that the entire big fix to others looting illegal is to flag that person so he can get attacked by anyone. It sounds good at first, but what exactly is to stop this person from just dropping a jetcan then looting into it for his corp to loot. Which by the way then flags the original owner back into the same situation. This kind of stupid can ownership looting can only be the dreamchild of a shortsighted person. While this is what our current system is, this new change will in term only make it so every ganking thief just has to incorporate a suicider in a rookie ship to get what they want.

Take it like this, if you go and steal a car, and then, you park it in a garage and a friend takes it, are the police going to stop looking for it because you gave it away? Well in essence crime watch says yes, this isnt real, this is stupid.

The answer and hold on, it isnt an easy on. The answer is every single item has its own individual timer. Every stolen item regardless of what it is, flags the new owner since it is in essence....stolen. Now these timers can easily start after it is only stolen the first time, so they dont keep resetting, but it is a much better and real solution then just saying the rookie ship absorbed all the "crime".

thank you for your time


First off,

Here are the mechanics now: I can steal a can, only you and your corp can attack me. Then, if I jetison that loot, and you can take it back, and then anyone in my corp can gank you. Essentially, we CURRENTLY HAVE the "if you go and steal a car, and then, you park it in a garage and a friend takes it, are the police going to stop looking for it because you gave it away" situation.... that you call stupid...

With the change: I steal from a can and become a suspect where everyone can shoot me off the bat. If I jetison the can, it is immediately set blue because I'm flagged as a suspect, so everyone can steal from that can without getting flagged. This is a direct consequence of the devblog's statement:
Quote:
If I can legally attack the owner of a container, then I can legally take from the container.


Essentially, the change makes it so can flipping is pointless.... if you leave stuff to steal, and someone steals it... they shouldn't bother ejecting it and just keep it. Since EVERYONE can shoot them, someone's bound to do it... Besides, the old I steal from you, and then if you take it back I get to shoot you was a flawed concept to begin with...
Astrovert
Fun Times Mining
#7 - 2012-11-07 04:51:54 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:


With the change: I steal from a can and become a suspect where everyone can shoot me off the bat. If I jetison the can, it is immediately set blue because I'm flagged as a suspect, so everyone can steal from that can without getting flagged. This is a direct consequence of the devblog's statement:
Quote:
If I can legally attack the owner of a container, then I can legally take from the container.


Essentially, the change makes it so can flipping is pointless.... if you leave stuff to steal, and someone steals it... they shouldn't bother ejecting it and just keep it. Since EVERYONE can shoot them, someone's bound to do it... Besides, the old I steal from you, and then if you take it back I get to shoot you was a flawed concept to begin with...


So in your world the second the car jacker leaves the car anyone can then feel free to take it.

Fixing a flawed system with a flawed system is stupid.

If your going this route then saying flagged people should be able to eject ANYTHING is dumb.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#8 - 2012-11-08 09:03:36 UTC  |  Edited by: TheGunslinger42
Astrovert wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:

Oh please, taking from a can generating a global crime flag is already massive overkill, suggesting that it be taken even further so flipping the item gives even more people that global crime flag is ridiculous.



Its overkill to generate a flag from stealing from a can? What?

So stealing without consequence is real?
Thats about as unreal as you could take this game.

Please come to my house and steal something we will see how "overkill" my reaction is.


Except there already ARE consequences you utter simp, the player you steal from - and his entire corp - are free to kill you.

Extending that to say every single player ever can kill you IS overkill.

And, as we all seem to agree, anyone being free to take "stolen goods" the moment a thief drops them under the new system is incredibly flawed too.

Claiming it's currently consequence free and comparing internet spaceship piracy to real life burglary is utterly stupid.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#9 - 2012-11-08 19:00:16 UTC
Astrovert wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:


With the change: I steal from a can and become a suspect where everyone can shoot me off the bat. If I jetison the can, it is immediately set blue because I'm flagged as a suspect, so everyone can steal from that can without getting flagged. This is a direct consequence of the devblog's statement:
Quote:
If I can legally attack the owner of a container, then I can legally take from the container.


Essentially, the change makes it so can flipping is pointless.... if you leave stuff to steal, and someone steals it... they shouldn't bother ejecting it and just keep it. Since EVERYONE can shoot them, someone's bound to do it... Besides, the old I steal from you, and then if you take it back I get to shoot you was a flawed concept to begin with...


So in your world the second the car jacker leaves the car anyone can then feel free to take it.

Fixing a flawed system with a flawed system is stupid.

If your going this route then saying flagged people should be able to eject ANYTHING is dumb.


The new system is far more realistic than the old system.... Think about it for a moment:

A much better example is burglarizing a home or store or car. If I burglarize your home, what did I take? Cash, a TV, a computer, a stereo, a bunch of CDs / DVDs, some cash, some random jewelry.... all stuff which typically does NOT have a serial number that can uniquely identify it as YOURS... your car jacking example is terrible precisely because the government can identify a car as yours...

In short, this new system is far more like RL, where the police can ID the thief (Fingerprints, DNA), but they typically can't identify your stuff. So, when the burglar launders the good to their accomplice, even if you see it happen, unless you can't prove that what that accomplice has is yours... that accomplice gets to keep your stuff and there's nothing legal you can do about it! Possession is 9/10ths of the law they say... so don't leave your stuff in space where anyone can take it!!!
Jakob Thorngod
Doomheim
#10 - 2012-11-09 05:06:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Jakob Thorngod
this and the new bounty system can only result in chaos and it will take away some of the safety in high sec. but is that good? well, maybe si, maybe no.
Arduemont
The State of War.
#11 - 2012-11-10 12:48:19 UTC
Having spent a very long time debating about how the bounty system and the new crime-watch system should work, I can whole heartedly say, that I am satisfied with the proposed changes.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

Kameri Velith
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2012-11-10 18:39:25 UTC
First off I'd like to point out that can flipping is already dead, no one jetcan mines anymore, which kinda makes your whole argument moot. Secondly I think the removal of the <= -1 sec standing requirement for a bounty might be to much to soon but until we see how the system actually plays out in game there is NO ONE that can say either way.
Azrael Dinn
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#13 - 2012-11-12 10:51:38 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Astrovert wrote:
The problem after examining CCP's new "Crimewatch" seems to lay with looting, it is hard to understand how fixing a broken
mechanic with another broken mechanic makes any sense.

To get to the point rather, it seems that the entire big fix to others looting illegal is to flag that person so he can get attacked by anyone. It sounds good at first, but what exactly is to stop this person from just dropping a jetcan then looting into it for his corp to loot. Which by the way then flags the original owner back into the same situation. This kind of stupid can ownership looting can only be the dreamchild of a shortsighted person. While this is what our current system is, this new change will in term only make it so every ganking thief just has to incorporate a suicider in a rookie ship to get what they want.

Take it like this, if you go and steal a car, and then, you park it in a garage and a friend takes it, are the police going to stop looking for it because you gave it away? Well in essence crime watch says yes, this isnt real, this is stupid.

The answer and hold on, it isnt an easy on. The answer is every single item has its own individual timer. Every stolen item regardless of what it is, flags the new owner since it is in essence....stolen. Now these timers can easily start after it is only stolen the first time, so they dont keep resetting, but it is a much better and real solution then just saying the rookie ship absorbed all the "crime".

thank you for your time


Oh please, taking from a can generating a global crime flag is already massive overkill, suggesting that it be taken even further so flipping the item gives even more people that global crime flag is ridiculous.



So your saying that it's ok that I break into your car, steal everything in it and sell that everything to a friend of mine is ok?

No offence but how idiotic can you be?

After centuries of debating and justifying... Break Cloaks tm