EVE General Discussion

This right here Zim ^^^. I haven't been screaming it will kill HS ( all in caps no less ) or that you or anyone else ( well - most people anyway ) are advocating to make it *suck*. I'm pointing out that slow, small incremental nerfs will hit peoples tipping point between do/don't do, play/not play/is fun/sucks thorax sooner or later. There are 21 pages up/back there full of bright ideas on how to fix Null. And a lot involve some form of making things cost more in HS, making some reward smaller or just removing the ability to engage in an activity all together. They seem to think this will make risk adverse people, or people who simply want nothing to do with Low/Null BS, flock down there. That reducing a reward mechanism in one place will make a place they want nothing to do with the golden mecca of fun and prosperity.

I'm not sure how you refer to things such as that, but for quite a few years I ( and a lot of people I know ) would use the phrase "This. [Game]. Sucks. [alternate name for a Thorax]." Make of it what you will.

"I'm not saying you're trying to make hisec suck, but what you're doing is trying to make hisec suck".


So let's hear it, then. Let's pretend you're tasked with trying to make the people who PVP in nullsec actually live there as well. Keep in mind you can't increase rewards in nullsec much, because monetary inflation is already a problem with the players just running hisec L4s, and you can't make any changes to hisec which'll "make it worse", because changing anything in hisec will make "everyone quit".

What do you do?


How many times do I have to repeat myself, I couldn't give less of a flying **** about people who are so risk averse they don't even want to risk losing a single frigate if they could avoid it, all I care about is to make the people who already PVP in nullsec actually want to live there as well.

"all I care about is to make the people who already PVP in nullsec actually want to live there as well."

So you don't care what happens to the rest of Eve as long as this is done? I'm still learning to read but that appears to be what you are saying. ;) Really? And CCP should listen to someone with that admitted goal?

Don't you think I would've argued for just increasing the number of manufacturing slots and the payouts in nullsec if it was that simple? I would've, because it would've avoided all the "hurr you just want to make hisec suck", "hurr if you make hisec suck more we'll all quit" etc whines. It's not that simple.


I don't care about people who are deathly afraid of PVP which might make their ships go boom, no. That's not to say I'm advocating going in and making changes with a tactical nuke, either. I want as small changes as possible which target specific issues while leaving as much untouched as possible. It's not my fault CCP's dropped the ball for several years running.


I haven't said anything about removing anything, I haven't come up with any nerfs which'll "make hisec a terribly sucking place", and it's not my fault if CCP's made something too good.

Exhumers could tank at the same level as some heavy assault ships. Just about every single subcap is profitable to kill if they dont fit a tank and slap on t2 mods, miners were not some exception to the rule.

Jetcan baiting removed almost entirely thanks to the massive ore bays

Insurance removed from concorded ships (long overdue)

War dec system which didnt work very well now is now useless.

Numerous concord buffs.

HP buff across the board.

And soon the changes that will make ganking anything very hard to do when it comes to scooping the loot. Even now there are people trying to get freighters of all things an EHP buff. High sec has lost a lot of risk over the last few years and its about time CCP added it back.

Maybe my combat ships are overpowered (no, I only have 2 Drakes, not my main ship) but they can be finely tuned at how much tank vs gank vs agility vs electronic warfare flavour you want to have. They don't become totally useless when fitting a tank. Many have multiple roles ('canes, I am talking about you - before CCP will make you CRAP ) that may be fulfilled.

Exhumers were clumsy and filmsy to begin with, 2 low slots vs 6+ of some other ships and in order to have any hope to survive they had to fail fit all out tank, losing a lot of their only role.

Exhumers - unlike combat ships - are played in a most, most boring gameplay that induced botting.

So they got more tank and / or more cargo space. The first gave them back their role, even when using a "no nonsense" tank, the latter greatly contributed to literally phase out the bots.




You know that like jetcan "duels", jetcan mining was something not intended. They took their damn good time to fix it but in they end they did. Now, without jetcan mining and the need to combat the bots, increasing cargo space was just the most straight way.




I (along many others) warned about that, but...




Aka exploitable manouvers banished. Once again, they were used for a long time, but we got some Fox meat eater who thought it'd be smart to prove how he could escape Concord in a T2 ship (i.e. not even using those dedicated ships).
And you know what CCP does when people posts and to spreads those tricks.


baltec1 said:
HP buff across the board.


T3 BCs and revamped destroyers. Nuff said.




I have posted in those (few) threads about how I am against buffing freighters EHP.

However if they make Orcas corp hangars scannable, I can foresee CCP buffing some ships EHP to still have the "big and valuable stuff carrier" role filled by something.

After all it's not realistic to impose 10 slowass freighter runs because 20km3 worth of materials are worth 15B.
After Orcas will be nerfed, the request for a ship able to carry those loads will surely reinforce.

One or the other please.

"I make tons of ISK doing HiSec PI"
"NullSec extraction planets aren't exactly a supersized wealth magnet either"

It isn't the lack of commodities in HS. It's the extraction tax. 10K M3 spaceport is around 7.2 Mill worth of Oxygen. 1.4 mill to extract it. I've extracted a number of resources from base up and it's an exponential cost based on 10K M3. There is no way to circumvent the system. You will be sinking huge ISK if you are using HS for PI.

More fun then listening to a goon say they have balls i get a better battle from the NPC's then i do from goons :).

Except we're not asking to make highsec "suck" - the problem is that certain aspects are way wayyyy too good. Balancing them so they're not ridiculously brilliant isn't making it "suck", it's making it reasonable.

Or do you just consider that reducing anything in any way at all for the sake of balance makes it terrible and "suck" and bloo bloo tears tears

Yes, it does, but that doesn't change the fact that hisec needs some moderation.