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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#181 - 2012-11-08 16:46:01 UTC
Removed some off topic posts. Please keep it on topic and civil. Have a nice day.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
AzAkiR NaLDa
Council of Exiles
Brave Collective
#182 - 2012-11-09 09:23:42 UTC
AlleyKat wrote:
Brent Newton wrote:
AzAkiR NaLDa wrote:
The other 2 channels in the pgs file are the diffuse mask and submask textures. These 2 channels combined make the reflection map. Each of these maps has their own specularity so keep a eye on that.



How does that work; the diffuse masks? I don't even know what a submask is, and how do they work together to affect a reflection map? I'm not used to working with textures that are much more than simple diffuse, spec, bump, mirror, alpha and such. I do however use Ps pretty heavily and understand much more in depth ways of layering in that program. I use blender btw, but when ppl explain stuff for 3ds or most other 3d programs I understand.


Unless you have the original 'RED' files OR you are able to reverse engineer the EVE gfx (which goes against the EULA) there is no way you will be able to know what or how to color the layers, or even what strength of specularity, glow, fresnel, reflectivity etc to use on any of the RGBA channels

I have all of the RED files btw, and they are available to anyone who asks me nicely.

AK





Alleycat the data you are talking about is also located in the new black files. You just need to learn how to read them and they will show the same data as the old red files.

On a side note. Today will be the day that I will finish some of the test models and all the layers should be mostly correct now.

Lone Star Warrior
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#183 - 2012-11-09 12:24:32 UTC
AzAkiR NaLDa wrote:
AlleyKat the data you are talking about is also located in the new black files. You just need to learn how to read them.


afaict: this information either needs to be parsed or reverse engineered.

please correct me if I am wrong, because I'm not interested in either, especially as I have all the information I would need anyway.

AK

This space for rent.
AzAkiR NaLDa
Council of Exiles
Brave Collective
#184 - 2012-11-09 14:20:04 UTC
this is true alleycat that it needs to be reverse engineered. but atleast then you have the proper color values and layering sorted. because the red files are outdated. most red files are from the old V2 shaders. and since the sub capital ships for the main 4 races and some pirate factions are allready using the new v3 shaders. these black files contain the information you need.

and you can easily convert them to a format that you can actually read just like you can read the black files. all you need to do is look back a couple pages and look for the black2json tool linked in the topic.

this does the converting work for you

Lone Star Warrior
Brent Newton
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#185 - 2012-11-09 16:12:35 UTC
I think all this is really a moot point. Why worry about making them eve perfect. The great thing about pulling a model out is that you can make them look 100x better than they ever could in a game engine. At least that's the way I see it. I'm just going to use the mask textures in the pgs as specular/mirror maps to give the appearance of different materials.

Q : I use blender and when I pull a ship in it has multiple materials attached. Are these necessary, or are they sorta like the additional verts you always get when importing an .obj? I can imagine when they might be, but maybe one of ya'll has a better understanding of this and can make it easier on me.

http://fav.me/d95rl8j
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#186 - 2012-11-10 00:08:14 UTC
AzAkiR NaLDa wrote:
this is true AlleyKat that it needs to be reverse engineered. but at least then you have the proper color values and layering sorted. because the red files are outdated. most red files are from the old V2 shaders. and since the sub capital ships for the main 4 races and some pirate factions are already using the new v3 shaders. these black files contain the information you need.

and you can easily convert them to a format that you can actually read just like you can read the black files. all you need to do is look back a couple pages and look for the black2json tool linked in the topic.

this does the converting work for you


Can't see anything about the two which are different, but then I haven't looked at every single ship.

AK

This space for rent.
AzAkiR NaLDa
Council of Exiles
Brave Collective
#187 - 2012-11-10 00:45:38 UTC
Brent Newton wrote:
I think all this is really a moot point. Why worry about making them eve perfect. The great thing about pulling a model out is that you can make them look 100x better than they ever could in a game engine. At least that's the way I see it. I'm just going to use the mask textures in the pgs as specular/mirror maps to give the appearance of different materials.

Q : I use blender and when I pull a ship in it has multiple materials attached. Are these necessary, or are they sorta like the additional verts you always get when importing an .obj? I can imagine when they might be, but maybe one of ya'll has a better understanding of this and can make it easier on me.


the reason that on some models you have multiple layers is due to the fact that all the uv mapping has been done already. this means that the main ship hull and the engine parts are separated.

this is also done for the engine glow. the engines have a different kind of lighting and reflection then the rest of the ship.

the bigger the ships the more layers you get.
for example the nyx super carrier has 3

while a gun model only has 1

it is all depending on if there is a different between some parts of the model.

hope that explains it a bit

Lone Star Warrior
Brent Newton
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#188 - 2012-11-10 08:58:24 UTC
AzAkiR NaLDa wrote:
Brent Newton wrote:
I think all this is really a moot point. Why worry about making them eve perfect. The great thing about pulling a model out is that you can make them look 100x better than they ever could in a game engine. At least that's the way I see it. I'm just going to use the mask textures in the pgs as specular/mirror maps to give the appearance of different materials.

Q : I use blender and when I pull a ship in it has multiple materials attached. Are these necessary, or are they sorta like the additional verts you always get when importing an .obj? I can imagine when they might be, but maybe one of ya'll has a better understanding of this and can make it easier on me.


the reason that on some models you have multiple layers is due to the fact that all the uv mapping has been done already. this means that the main ship hull and the engine parts are separated.

this is also done for the engine glow. the engines have a different kind of lighting and reflection then the rest of the ship.

the bigger the ships the more layers you get.
for example the nyx super carrier has 3

while a gun model only has 1

it is all depending on if there is a different between some parts of the model.

hope that explains it a bit



Yes, it does. Thanks. What blending modes are you guys using? I kinda just go though all the options on each until it looks right. I wish I understood this better. I imagine blender isn't much different than any other 3d program in that it has blending modes for layers.

http://fav.me/d95rl8j
AzAkiR NaLDa
Council of Exiles
Brave Collective
#189 - 2012-11-10 19:02:39 UTC
in 3ds max when you import the .obj file it automaticly creates a 1 or 2 layered material that you can then edit.

and when working on it you can actually see that when working on the hull layer the engines stay gray/white or whatever base color you have

Lone Star Warrior
Brent Newton
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#190 - 2012-11-10 20:30:32 UTC
Yes this is the same in Blender, though I only today figured out how to do it. lol Before I was rendering each change to see what had happened. For anyone else that maybe using blender just expand menu on the right of the 3d view and check "textured solid". I feel silly for not having already known this.

http://fav.me/d95rl8j
AzAkiR NaLDa
Council of Exiles
Brave Collective
#191 - 2012-11-11 11:55:03 UTC
Haha this is how you learn. Here let me show you my latest test run. In the picture you will see a rokh and a abaddon but baddon is under fire.

http://simple-construction.net/images/test.jpeg

Lone Star Warrior
Brent Newton
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#192 - 2012-11-11 14:53:09 UTC
AzAkiR NaLDa wrote:
Haha this is how you learn. Here let me show you my latest test run. In the picture you will see a rokh and a abaddon but baddon is under fire.

http://simple-construction.net/images/test.jpeg


Very nice. What are you using to render these? 3ds or udk?

Pretty Abandon

http://fav.me/d95rl8j
AzAkiR NaLDa
Council of Exiles
Brave Collective
#193 - 2012-11-11 15:10:34 UTC  |  Edited by: AzAkiR NaLDa
this is done completly in max rendertime on this highres screenshot was 1 minute 20 seconds XD

here is a screenshot of my re-creation of the abaddon :

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/2431/baddon.jpg

texturing done in 4 minutes :)

Lone Star Warrior
Brent Newton
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#194 - 2012-11-11 17:14:32 UTC
AzAkiR NaLDa wrote:
this is done completly in max rendertime on this highres screenshot was 1 minute 20 seconds XD

here is a screenshot of my re-creation of the abaddon :

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/2431/baddon.jpg

texturing done in 4 minutes :)


Now that looks nice. So much detail. I am wondering why you seem to have have sharpen mask on it. Am I wrong? Just the way the diffuse looks. I like it. 3ds was so much better than blender for a long time, but these days they've got the cycles render engine and also addons for vray and all the popular renderers. If I had a week to sit down and mess with it, I'd like to completely redo the textures and make them stupid hi-def. Like 5k x 5k. Then completely remake them using the original as a template for color and such. You could add scratch layers which ccp could randomize to give each ship a different look. Possibly a layer for when the ship has taken dam that changes the normals to allow for dents and things. So many options.

I love eve ships. CCP did a great job on them, but no 3d model is ever finished. Kinda sucks that hardly anyone even looks at them from all the freakin menus. I wish they would redo that. Find a more graphically friendly look to the UI, so it wasn't as necessary to have so much text.

http://fav.me/d95rl8j
AzAkiR NaLDa
Council of Exiles
Brave Collective
#195 - 2012-11-11 18:05:09 UTC
The masks used come from the pgs files. Its the red and blue channels

Lone Star Warrior
AzAkiR NaLDa
Council of Exiles
Brave Collective
#196 - 2012-11-24 00:02:33 UTC
okay did some more work and in a couple hours simulations of engine trails and gun blasts will be finished :)

finally managed to get the mask to work out correctly.

imageshack.us/a/img217/6307/geddon21.jpg

thanks to composite materials. i adjusted the diffuse texture colors for the mask and submask layers.
then applied the masks and as you can see a good final result if i may say so myself.

Lone Star Warrior
Brent Newton
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#197 - 2012-11-24 02:19:07 UTC
AzAkiR NaLDa wrote:
okay did some more work and in a couple hours simulations of engine trails and gun blasts will be finished :)

finally managed to get the mask to work out correctly.

imageshack.us/a/img217/6307/geddon21.jpg

thanks to composite materials. i adjusted the diffuse texture colors for the mask and submask layers.
then applied the masks and as you can see a good final result if i may say so myself.


How did you do that blue shield thing at the front? That looks really good. Do you subdivide the mesh before render?

http://fav.me/d95rl8j
AzAkiR NaLDa
Council of Exiles
Brave Collective
#198 - 2012-11-24 18:34:21 UTC
Brent Newton wrote:
AzAkiR NaLDa wrote:
okay did some more work and in a couple hours simulations of engine trails and gun blasts will be finished :)

finally managed to get the mask to work out correctly.

imageshack.us/a/img217/6307/geddon21.jpg

thanks to composite materials. i adjusted the diffuse texture colors for the mask and submask layers.
then applied the masks and as you can see a good final result if i may say so myself.


How did you do that blue shield thing at the front? That looks really good. Do you subdivide the mesh before render?


that "Blue shield" stuff is actually the reflections of the environment. still need lots of small tweaks will get you a update on it once it is finished.

right now playing around with lots and lots of particles to bring **** to life

Lone Star Warrior
AzAkiR NaLDa
Council of Exiles
Brave Collective
#199 - 2012-11-24 23:30:29 UTC  |  Edited by: AzAkiR NaLDa
Hmm found the issue i was having earlier. seems that some black files are protected for some reason or atleast i cant convert them

Lone Star Warrior
AzAkiR NaLDa
Council of Exiles
Brave Collective
#200 - 2012-11-25 13:42:21 UTC  |  Edited by: AzAkiR NaLDa
okay small update on our progress :

http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/1226/preview01n.jpg

Punisher with full scale texture on it and some scenery in the background.

this model includes:

- T2 gatling pulse lasers mounted
- Engine Burns
- Planet
- Sun
- Nebula
- Stars

Lone Star Warrior