Warfare & Tactics

The notion of corps/alliances switching sides is a silly one. Even ignoring the faction standings issue, they would have a hard time getting accepted by the existing corps of the other side.

Also, even if PvP corps from the winning side join the losing side, then who will be left to shoot at? risk averse plexers? No, the best solution is to grow the pie instead of redividing it. Get more groups interested in FW and the potential of fights we have.

As for the animosity. I personally don't like to play that game, I love my targets and I love my allies and will happily chat with either.

I am of course not blind and deaf, so I sometimes do see the vitrol. Most of it stemming, in my perception, from a feeling that the opponents are unwilling to fight. Which is something that happens everywhere, not just in FW. Just take a look at the syndicate thread on failheap challenge and see how rote feels about that right now.

But in FW it's magnified, because by it's very nature it's us vs them. Not specific corps/alliances. If LNA upships it's "those damn minnies upshipped", if iron oxide undock a 1:1 ratio BC's/logi "it's those damn minnies". If sicarius uncloak multiple falcons "it's those minnies again". I'm sure that in reality more imaginative words where uttered, but I'm not that creative.

I'm also sure "the minnies" have similar experiences with "the amarr".

And as a multiplier to this, especially before the patch, there where clear strategic fleets. Fleets that had no intention of fighting, but where just there to lock down systems to prevent plexing by the opposing side. This luckily has died down a bit after the patch. Because "no fun allowed" fleets are a bit silly for a video game.

Anyway, I think a good way to reduce the animosity is simply to communicate, and I'd invite people to take a look at the fairly recently created failheap fw topic and make it work. Trough understanding why we both undock the fleets we do, and communicate how we think about the fights and fleets other people undock we can start to understand each other better, and create better engagement opportunities.

Naive or not, I still think a large majority on both sides actually WANT to fight, and if we can stop the complaining and shitposting about eachother, then perhaps we can make a better place for the both of us.

I realize the Minmatar have had the upper hand for some time. And this attracted a lot of farmers with the huge isk that could be made while avoiding actual PVP. But the change to nerf this income has just happened, and the reduction in ease and volume of isk from farming FW will take a while before the impact starts to noticeably shift the balance.

But really what shift are you waiting for? If you want to PVP the minmatar militia is currently full of juicy targets.

Now while the minmatar still have the edge it will still be the best place to farm LP to make isk. But the returns will be lower. This farming does not hold the same appeal to PVPers. There are two types of PVPers in this scenario. Their are the elite PVPers looking for good fights with no real interest in hunting down farmers who don't know how to fight. Then there are the majority of PVPers who will hunt and kill anyone. These players don't care which side they are on, or which side is better for farming isk. These players are looking for the most targets they can find to kill.

Well with so many players on the minmatar side of the Faction Wars, these players will get the most targets by joining the opposing militia. The more that join the Amarr militia the stronger that militia will get., and the more risk farmers will face as the opposing militia is hunting them in greater numbers. It should not take long for this balance to reach a point where the farmers start changing sides for safety reasons and the difference in income will get smaller and smaller as the balance shifts.

Keep in mind that with the way FW farming was working until the last change all factions would spike their own control to cash out and then use alts on the other side to drive it back down to generate better rewards from farming. So most farmers have characters on both sides already. Switching back and forth will not be difficult.

Why have we not seen this change yet? Well up until last week it was still better to keep your faction low and spike it when you needed to cash out. Now with loyalty points being maxed out by keeping you faction control up we will now see actual fighting over control rather than spiking control for cash outs.

All we need now is for the majority of FW PVPers to realize that taking the side of the under dog will give them more targets. Once this happens we will start to see a natural swing of power back and forth, driven by PVP as FW was meant to be, and the FW PVPers keep saying it should be. So to you PVPers out there, I say, Does it not make sense that being on the opposite side of all the farmers will give you more targets to shoot at. What is more important to you, belonging to the dominant PVE faction, or filling you PVP kill board with as many FW farmer kills as possible? True PVPers care far more about their kill board than what faction they are fighting for.

PVP content is driven by players, not made by developers. They have given us the tools we need, now it is up to us to use them.

Sure there will be some who care about immersion and role-play to the point where they will not change sides. But these will certainly be in the minority. The only way to get PVP content is to undock and GO TO WHERE THE OTHER PLAYERS ARE. We have many systems full of minmatar farmers. This means the Amarr militia have a tone of targets and thus a tonne of PVP content. All you have to do to get access to that PVP content is join the fight. The game developers can no more force players to become your targets then they can force you to go where the targets are. It is all on your head if you want to PVP. Stop crying, get out there and start killing.

they are quite "electric" but we don't accept people into corp who refuse to fly without links, scout, griffin alt, SFI only doctrine, etc.

long story short, I've heard you in comms and we'd love to have you just to hear your goofy british pedo sounding voice so we can make a soundboard. so put your app in today please.

Exactly my point. The good PVPers who actually care more about finding good PVP are already on the under dog side. Since these players are generally much better PVPers than the FW farmers that are so numerous in the Minmatar militia, who actually care more about their bankroll. The actual power will balance out. More and more good PVPers will join the under dog side. Some will just be alts with their mains on the dominant side. Others will actually work to switch their main over.

Just as one Lion is better than 100 sheep. One good PVPer is better than 100 farmers.

I see this shift already happening, but I guess only time will tell.

You do understand that they did not join the underdog and it does not matter if one pvp'er is worth 100 farmers in battle for the simple reason that one pvp'er has to sleep, work, etc. at some stage.

When that happens, farmers flip systems and there is nothing the pvp'er can do about it. Eventually all systems will be owned by CCP's designated farmer militias = gal/matar and pvp militias end up with ****** income and option to stage outside fw zone.

I am probably a pessimist but I always assume the worst of all possible situation/people because that way I never get disappointed, only mildly delighted if things dont go utterly to the scheissehaus.

And with that I'd have to agree it's absolutely shocking we decided against switching sides.

I've removed some off topic posts. Please keep it civil and on topic please. Thank you.

CCP are very receptive to player opinions and suggestions for changes in gameplay. Those opinions and suggestions do however have to be presented in a collected, reasonable and coherent manner, through the correct channels, and within the rules of the forums.

If you have any doubt as to the rules on these forums, then feel free to refresh your memory here.

If you would like to do this, then I'll kindly direct you to the Features & Ideas Discussion Forum for any existing ingame features that you would like to discuss, or any ideas you have for new features.

For discussion regarding content in development on the test server, I will direct you to the Test Server Feedback forum.

If you feel you would like to bring things directly to our attention via the CSM, then you can post in the CSM Assembly Hall

On a more serious note, I suggest that you tread very carefully on how you respond to our volunteers, and the tone you use when addressing them.

Trolling and attacks on them will not be tolerated.

Despite having to moderate it quite heavily, I'll leave this thread open, as there are a number of very good points being made here.

I do however suggest people think before they post.

Ignorance with regards to the forum rules is no excuse.

Caldari militia, according to publicised statistics, have more pilots than the Gallente militia. This has been true with years, over the course of fluctuations that have affected both sides.

There's often an assertion that Caldari militia is the one outnumbered, usually based on anecdotal or 'gut' feelings about activity or PvPers versus PvEers. But to my knowledge, no one's ever actually put forth statistical evidence of this.

If all of ''The good PVPers'' (lol) are already on the under dog side....can you remind me exactly why it is that i should be swapping to join them? I want to be fighting the ''The good PVPers'', not stuck on the same side as them ganking farmers.

#confused