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Command Ships, and how they will affect PVE

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goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#21 - 2012-11-08 11:31:59 UTC
Fishsticks Fred wrote:
goldiiee wrote:
:words:


words


Yeah I know your right. But I still don’t want to let it go without a little fight. In the other things I like I do, tend to have fleet split up in a system so my desire for a system wide OGB remains pretty strong. Unlike the incursion OGB It's a fitted fighting Claymore or Damnation so I am looking forward to the dual bonuses that are on the way. But I still can’t figure out how to have boost in three places at once and the idea of dragging three more toons in is less than ideal.

Oh and the PVP vs PVE comment was my brain bleeding over from another conversation as I type.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Grombutz
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2012-11-08 11:39:26 UTC
Quote:
There is no risk. Even outside of a POS, T3 boosting alts are typically fit to be as hard as possible to scan down, and require a lot of effort to do so. The risk is even lowers in highsec. Eve is all about risk vs reward. Why should a fleet get a massive reward (and the reward IS massive) for essentially zero risk?


There is risk involved outside of a PoS. You can probe him down (might be hard on T3's, and they deserve a nerf for their boosting-sub) - but seriously, how does this change if you need to be ongrid? The OGB will probably try evertything to bypass you, and it's most likely that you will still have to probe him down to catch him...
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#23 - 2012-11-08 12:17:39 UTC
Scanning down an OGB T3 is not "hard", it is impossible without max skills and the Virtue set.

Moving links on grid reduces stupid afk alt gameplay, in the future dualboxing link alts will be more risky and challenging, but still doable. Having a (buffed, see they will get rebalanced along with links changes) CS on grid with your fleet brings not only bonuses, but dps and EHP as well, so it's not simply nerfed.

I have a perfect mindlinked Legion booster alt who is training for command ships, and I'm excited about these changes. I get a good reason to turn her into full pvp toon now :)

.
Rolstra
Moo's Mudpit
#24 - 2012-11-08 13:22:30 UTC
Roime wrote:
Scanning down an OGB T3 is not "hard", it is impossible without max skills and the Virtue set.


So it takes a perfectly skilled toon to scan down a prefectly skilled toon? I see balance, and you see impossible task, I guess we play different games.
goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#25 - 2012-11-08 13:25:20 UTC
A command ship trained to perfect booster with a Mindlink, is designed to assist the fleet in an engagement, unless you’re a very linear thinking FC you engage a force on as many fronts as possible. Restricting their ability to get reinforcements and by depleting their cap, shield, armor, or strontium is how battles are won. So I’m trying to figure out why anyone would be arguing about what is perfectly obvious to me, command links are distributed to a fleet to not to an area of operation, .

Why? Because it makes sense.

Anyone that hasn’t figured it out is lying or they wouldn’t be screaming in every corner to get it Nerfed so they can press the advantage.

Example: A 50 man Corp in WH has a small group doing sites, another harvesting gas or ore, and the guards scanning for WH spawns and keeping the other two defended as group 1 and 2 make the Corp ISK. All members of the Corp are in the same fleet with wings distributed for each current event. All of them deserve the boost provided by the Command ship. This is the intended role of the command ship at work, but since someone wants to have all their prospective targets in the fleet they wish to engage in one spot at one time. It really seems like someone is hurt over losing to a well thought out fleet to many times and we are all going to pay the price.

Why? Because we didn’t complain when we won those engagements.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Grombutz
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2012-11-08 14:12:01 UTC
Roime wrote:
Scanning down an OGB T3 is not "hard", it is impossible without max skills and the Virtue set.


And this is a totally different story - you don't need to nerf the hell out of OGB'ing, just nerf T3's and you are fine. The need for a T3 nerf is there, and this was mentioned hundreds of times. What does this have to do with OGB'ing in general?
Grombutz
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2012-11-08 14:17:47 UTC
goldiiee wrote:
Grombutz wrote:
Whatever you do, don't miss the Rorq. It will be useless for boosting purposes if you have to use the core ongrid..


So possibly a role bonus to Rorq’s letting them run command links in a POS. would probably make it the latest preferred command link booster.

Of course I have never used a Rorq, it primarily uses the mining links right?
If so then simple fix would be no restriction on mining links They would work in, or out of the POS. I don’t think the PVP’ers would care if you’re getting mining bonuses :)


This would be a possible solution, yeah - but I have to disagree about the PvP'ers part - there will be tears if all boosting will be changed and mining bonuses still remain the same == Less easy kills. ;)
goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#28 - 2012-11-08 14:47:49 UTC
Grombutz wrote:
goldiiee wrote:
Grombutz wrote:
Whatever you do, don't miss the Rorq. It will be useless for boosting purposes if you have to use the core ongrid..


So possibly a role bonus to Rorq’s letting them run command links in a POS. would probably make it the latest preferred command link booster.

Of course I have never used a Rorq, it primarily uses the mining links right?
If so then simple fix would be no restriction on mining links They would work in, or out of the POS. I don’t think the PVP’ers would care if you’re getting mining bonuses :)


This would be a possible solution, yeah - but I have to disagree about the PvP'ers part - there will be tears if all boosting will be changed and mining bonuses still remain the same == Less easy kills. ;)


Yeah can't have PVP'ers tears they are so loud they drown out reason. :)

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#29 - 2012-11-08 15:15:38 UTC
Rolstra wrote:
Roime wrote:
Scanning down an OGB T3 is not "hard", it is impossible without max skills and the Virtue set.


So it takes a perfectly skilled toon to scan down a prefectly skilled toon? I see balance, and you see impossible task, I guess we play different games.


Not, it requires perfect skills and a full pirate implant set to just scan down a properly fitted OGB. The skills of the OGB don't matter at all, it can be as low-skilled as you like.

.
Rolstra
Moo's Mudpit
#30 - 2012-11-08 16:03:55 UTC
Roime wrote:
Rolstra wrote:
Roime wrote:
Scanning down an OGB T3 is not "hard", it is impossible without max skills and the Virtue set.


So it takes a perfectly skilled toon to scan down a prefectly skilled toon? I see balance, and you see impossible task, I guess we play different games.


Not, it requires perfect skills and a full pirate implant set to just scan down a properly fitted OGB. The skills of the OGB don't matter at all, it can be as low-skilled as you like.

I am agreeing with you, it does take a considerable amount of skill and hardware to find something that gives the opposing fleet a 30% boost. As it should, with the current battle cry of risk vs. reward it should take a very well trained and expensive Toon to find the lynchpin that allows you to take down a few billion ISK worth of unprepared, improperly tanked ships (assuming the opposing fleet fitted up with the OGB in mind).

If the OGB is ‘low skilled’ then don’t bother killing it. The boosts are relatively negligible for anything not trained to use T2, and even less without the Mindlink. The Killmail should tell you everything you need to know and lacking a kill then quick ship scan will advise your FC if the OGB is even worth the manpower needed to kill it.

Of course that requires it being in space and not in a POS so once again, I agree. They should not be able to hide in an inaccessible spot. And the opposing fleet should launch a counter measure to neutralize it, not have it handed it to them with a bow on top.

BTW not having the manpower to kill it is no excuse, a nueted dry command ship is no better than a docked one.
Risien Drogonne
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2012-11-08 19:46:34 UTC
Rolstra wrote:
Roime wrote:
Scanning down an OGB T3 is not "hard", it is impossible without max skills and the Virtue set.


So it takes a perfectly skilled toon to scan down a prefectly skilled toon? I see balance, and you see impossible task, I guess we play different games.

Except that any noob can benefit from the OGB, so there goes the balance.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#32 - 2012-11-08 20:55:03 UTC
Rolstra wrote:
Roime wrote:
Scanning down an OGB T3 is not "hard", it is impossible without max skills and the Virtue set.


So it takes a perfectly skilled toon to scan down a prefectly skilled toon? I see balance, and you see impossible task, I guess we play different games.


except you dont need to be a perfect toon to be 'unprobable', you just need to be able to fit ECCM.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#33 - 2012-11-08 23:50:42 UTC
Some posts have been removed. We appreciate that this subject is one that inspires passion, but any further racial insults will be dealt with very seriously.

So please keep it passionate, but at all times civil.


Forum Rules #11: The posting of pornography; discriminatory remarks which are sexually explicit, harmful, threatening, abusive, defamatory, obscene, hateful, racially or ethnically offensive; excessive obscene or vulgar language; posts which discuss or illustrate illegal activity; providing links to sites that contain any of the aforementioned.

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goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#34 - 2012-11-09 07:40:17 UTC
Well, shame I didn’t get to see what they wrote the deserved censorship. :(

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#35 - 2012-11-09 08:17:00 UTC
goldiiee wrote:
Well, shame I didn’t get to see what they wrote the deserved censorship. :(


I can only assume it was a parting quote from Herr Ronin good friend who has decided to go get a real life and stop playing EVE. Take care Ronin and best wishes to you my friend.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Rolstra
Moo's Mudpit
#36 - 2012-11-09 19:16:01 UTC
PVP is great.

PVP is a way of proving our team has more, better, faster, than their team,
But when their team has more, better, faster, they cheated.
And since they cheated, and we didn’t learn anything, we tried again.
And they still cheated.
So we took away some of their toys (Whined till CCP listened) and we won.

We are so cool. (Dancing gif inserted here)
ISD TYPE40
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2012-11-09 19:16:07 UTC
This thread has been cleaned of Anti Semitism and attacks on ISD staff.


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goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#38 - 2012-11-09 19:18:52 UTC
Thanks ISD. Sorry for the declne in decorum.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
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