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[Proposal] Adopt a few mechanics from Perpetuum.

First post
Author
Raid'En
#21 - 2011-10-18 11:27:40 UTC
at first i was "hell no", but after reading the different views here... it seems like interetsing ideas.

more micromanagement would be nice on fleet battles.
really liked trebor idea to force fleets to works on different units at different points.
the way to do it however... dunno

and it would be funny if succeeding to kill an ennemy titan make half the subcap close to him explode just after... would means attacking it at close range is pretty dangerous however, as you risk getting the whole attacking fleet destroyed with the target...
Starr Tookus
Perkone
Caldari State
#22 - 2011-10-18 12:10:21 UTC
The only "must have" from PERP is the option to automatically rejoin a fleet after you disconnect.

Internal corporate markets would be worth a look, but it could destroy the overall economy.
Aineko Macx
#23 - 2011-10-19 12:50:39 UTC
I'm with Trebor and Raid'En on the proposal.

Starr Tookus wrote:
The only "must have" from PERP is the option to automatically rejoin a fleet after you disconnect.
Internal corporate markets would be worth a look, but it could destroy the overall economy.

Both features already exist in eve. After discoing and relogging it asks whether you want to rejoin previous fleet (timeframe is 1 min IIRC). Internal corpmarkets are done with the contracting system.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2011-10-19 13:03:29 UTC
Aineko Macx wrote:
I'm with Trebor and Raid'En on the proposal.

Starr Tookus wrote:
The only "must have" from PERP is the option to automatically rejoin a fleet after you disconnect.
Internal corporate markets would be worth a look, but it could destroy the overall economy.

Both features already exist in eve. After discoing and relogging it asks whether you want to rejoin previous fleet (timeframe is 1 min IIRC). Internal corpmarkets are done with the contracting system.


Yes...thank you.

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Martinez
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#25 - 2011-10-19 16:17:07 UTC
I like the exploding ships idea alot. Its realistic. Maybe base it on a ratio between the size of the ship exploding/size of your ship/distance to the explosion.

If it only took a % of your hitpoints even in empire it would be ok.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2011-10-19 16:19:23 UTC
Martinez wrote:
I like the exploding ships idea alot. Its realistic. Maybe base it on a ratio between the size of the ship exploding/size of your ship/distance to the explosion.

If it only took a % of your hitpoints even in empire it would be ok.


Problem with Empire in the last discussion was the GCC from the resulting explosion. It would have to be carefully addressed or create no GCC at all as it would create some havoc.

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MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2011-10-19 20:23:32 UTC
Martinez wrote:
I like the exploding ships idea alot. Its realistic. Maybe base it on a ratio between the size of the ship exploding/size of your ship/distance to the explosion.

If it only took a % of your hitpoints even in empire it would be ok.


I think it could be even less. For instance even if your really close, a frigate could only take like 1% damage from a battleship blowing up.

If you did it this way it would encourage fleets to bring many tiers of ships, as they wouldn't deal much AOE damage to each other. but if you had all battleships, you'll more screwed for blobing.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg

Akara Ito
Phalanx Solutions
#28 - 2011-10-19 21:56:40 UTC
Martinez wrote:
I like the exploding ships idea alot. Its realistic. Maybe base it on a ratio between the size of the ship exploding/size of your ship/distance to the explosion.

If it only took a % of your hitpoints even in empire it would be ok.


An example:
Goonswarm wardecs test.
Test BS at Jita undock.
Goonswarm shoots Test BS.
Test BS explode.
People explode.
Tears flood the forums.
No Sec Status or Standing loss.
repeat


I'm all in for destroying Highsec once and for all, but hell it has to be a challenge.
From another point of view, we could shoot Test ...
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2011-10-19 22:27:04 UTC
Akara Ito wrote:
Martinez wrote:
I like the exploding ships idea alot. Its realistic. Maybe base it on a ratio between the size of the ship exploding/size of your ship/distance to the explosion.

If it only took a % of your hitpoints even in empire it would be ok.


An example:
Goonswarm wardecs test.
Test BS at Jita undock.
Goonswarm shoots Test BS.
Test BS explode.
People explode.
Tears flood the forums.
No Sec Status or Standing loss.
repeat


I'm all in for destroying Highsec once and for all, but hell it has to be a challenge.
From another point of view, we could shoot Test ...


So I guess you just ignored the part where we said special considerations would have to be made for high sec and GCC's would have to be addressed?

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FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#30 - 2011-10-19 22:31:42 UTC
Why ship death AoE won't work:

My crew gets a bunch of ships and shoots them all down to 5% hull. We park them all on the jita undock, get aggression on one, and pop it. The resulting chain reaction deals enough damage to the freighters undocking that they are destroyed. Congratulations, you just enabled smartbombing inside the docking radius. What's more, it's not Concord enforceable.

If they ever do introduce it, though, neutral suicide bombers are going to be a lot of fun in highsec wars.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2011-10-19 22:36:20 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Why ship death AoE won't work:

My crew gets a bunch of ships and shoots them all down to 5% hull. We park them all on the jita undock, get aggression on one, and pop it. The resulting chain reaction deals enough damage to the freighters undocking that they are destroyed. Congratulations, you just enabled smartbombing inside the docking radius. What's more, it's not Concord enforceable.

If they ever do introduce it, though, neutral suicide bombers are going to be a lot of fun in highsec wars.


So I guess you just ignored the part where we said special considerations would have to be made for high sec and GCC's would have to be addressed?

Seriously...for the love of God...

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Endovior
PFU Consortium
#32 - 2011-10-20 00:22:39 UTC
Specifics on AOE explosions is a tricky question... though it'd make 0.0 tactics more interesting, it would require a good deal of care to avoid all kinds of problems in hisec. Of course, if you're already willing to sacrifice however many ships it winds up taking to actually pop things from proximity damage alone, you can probably already manage to kill them anyways.

As for 'static noise'... that's a fairly clumsy mechanic, but is similar to a somewhat more elegant idea from the Commonly Proposed Ideas list; namely, making the process of locking slow proportional to the number of active locks on a target. That would make fleet combats more dynamic, since you can't just run a 60+ man fleet with everyone targeting the same guy... and would encourage more use of 'utility ships', since having people running around targeting your allies would interfere with enemy targeting to some degree.

Yes, that's a mechanic that'd take a bit of tinkering to work out satisfactorily... you don't want it to simply be a question of 'everyone target the friendly logistics ships so no one can shoot them', and you'd want some way of countering it... maybe sensor boosters and ECCM can help cut through the static, and target painters can make it far easier for other ships to target the painted ship, in addition to increasing damage on hits; those are ideas that are already discussed in the relevant thread, and deserve further consideration in any implementation of this idea.
Akara Ito
Phalanx Solutions
#33 - 2011-10-20 20:02:12 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:

So I guess you just ignored the part where we said special considerations would have to be made for high sec and GCC's would have to be addressed?


It doesnt matter at all what you fix about GCC, an aoe weapon usable in highsec is bad.
Smartbombs work because they cant be used at undocks, but you can hardly restict the destruction on ships.
Same goes for abuse of this for "suicide" ganking.

Also saying "My idea will work somehow because somebody sure find a solution for its problems" is a very good base for a proposal. Shocked
Max Von Sydow
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2011-10-20 20:10:02 UTC
How about stations having some sort of anti-AoE equipment to protect its guests from non targeted weapons, so that a ship that explodes near a station does 0 damage to nearby ships.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2011-10-20 20:16:00 UTC
Akara Ito wrote:
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:

So I guess you just ignored the part where we said special considerations would have to be made for high sec and GCC's would have to be addressed?


It doesnt matter at all what you fix about GCC, an aoe weapon usable in highsec is bad.
Smartbombs work because they cant be used at undocks, but you can hardly restict the destruction on ships.
Same goes for abuse of this for "suicide" ganking.

Also saying "My idea will work somehow because somebody sure find a solution for its problems" is a very good base for a proposal. Shocked


We already covered this. If you are too damned lazy to read then that is not my problem.

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David Carel
SWAT Team Sales Consultants
#36 - 2011-10-23 19:42:10 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Why ship death AoE won't work:

My crew gets a bunch of ships and shoots them all down to 5% hull. We park them all on the jita undock, get aggression on one, and pop it. The resulting chain reaction deals enough damage to the freighters undocking that they are destroyed. Congratulations, you just enabled smartbombing inside the docking radius. What's more, it's not Concord enforceable.

If they ever do introduce it, though, neutral suicide bombers are going to be a lot of fun in highsec wars.


So I guess you just ignored the part where we said special considerations would have to be made for high sec and GCC's would have to be addressed?

Seriously...for the love of God...


What the hell does aggression mechanics have to do with GCCs?
And saying that "in high sec, ships don't explode because CONCORD says so" is, ahem, dumb. (Or any other entity for that matter)
Temuken Radzu
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2011-10-23 21:12:56 UTC
I too like the idea of exploding ships, howerver... because the ship scraps spread out, like a shotgun, the explosion radius would be more like the closer you are, the more damage you recieve.
And whats more, because the captials have such big jump engines, the explosion should be much more violent.

To balance it out against smaller ships, the explosion of capitals should be prolonged for about 10-15 sec.
Enouch time for smal ships to get the hell out.
Katie Frost
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2011-10-24 02:44:40 UTC
I would like to see a mechanic that affects the whole "Primary = Boom" tactic that is applied in fleets. A lock-stacking penalty may be an appropriate way to do this. It would make tactics more intricate and role-specific ships more useful. I could see a larger diversity in fleets except the standard blobs.

However, there are still questions regarding chain logistics for example and the effect a friendly lock would have on enemy ships locking time. CCP would have to carefully consider the abuse factor of this mechanic should it be implemented.

With regard to AoE explosions, this would be grossly tipped against close range ships and especially so for blaster-boats that need to sit on top of a target to deal optimum damage.
Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2011-10-24 02:47:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Smiling Menace
Not too sure about the other proposals but I like the AoE of exploding ships.

I think a simple solution to this would be have it only on capital ships as the sub-cap ships don't have enough mass to cause an AoE effect? Death of a capital should be spectacular, not the damp squib we have now.

This way if you want to blob in your capitals, make sure you are very, very far away when one goes boom Big smile
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2011-10-25 14:22:05 UTC
I created a new thread specifically for the AoE damage subject since this thread was for 3 ideas and I didn't want to focus on one in specific.

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