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Space Sations in high sec and low sec
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Prince Volcae
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-11-07 07:28:14 UTC
Is it still possible to make a profit from your own space stations in high sec or low sec? How can i make a profit from constructing a station? I am new to industry in general. More of a missioner.

De la mesure dont nous mesurons les autres nous serons mesurés.
Denal Umbra
Coffee Hub
#2 - 2012-11-07 10:55:55 UTC
outposts can only be built in SOV space and they cost 50b+ per to build.

You can make a profit by building the components for the eggs however but most alliances do it themselves. To figure out which one is and isnt profitable. You need to do the research yourself.

Eggs being the 'very first step' of the outpost.
Celgar Thurn
Department 10
#3 - 2012-11-07 11:21:06 UTC
I think the OP being a novice probably means running a POS (Player Owned Station) rather than an Outpost. A profit can obviously made by building and using a POS. But do your maths first. Smile
Prince Volcae
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-11-07 13:25:38 UTC
i did mean POS.

De la mesure dont nous mesurons les autres nous serons mesurés.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#5 - 2012-11-07 15:31:53 UTC
Many indy players, myself included, use POSes to support their industry. For example I always have at least a small POS running for labs to run ME/PE research jobs. When I get really busy I have a Large POS I bring online. High sec station lab slots are just far to busy. But you can also make isk doing this. By buying and researching popular BPO's to a decent level, you can then sell them on contract for a significant profit, or make copies of them to sell.

You can also make money with a POS by setting it up for manufacturing. Most POS arrays give a bonus to manufacturing time so you can turn a nice profit by building things quickly, and not needing to wait for slots in a busy system.

The best way to make isk from a high sec POS though is through invention. Having all the lab slots you need readily available thru a POS can make invention very quick and easy. But make sure to learn the ropes before you get into it or your could lose your shirt.

Once you get into low sec the best way to make money with a POS is thru reactions. combining moon goo into high end mats generally turns a 50% profit, but it takes a lot of isk to set up a decent operation, and you are in low sec, so there is always a chance someone will come by and blow your profits to hell.
Jason McCoy
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-11-17 21:11:22 UTC
Just a quick FYI; POS stands for Player Owned Starbase, POSes are not stations.
Shaishi Otichoda
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-11-17 21:46:32 UTC
Prince Volcae wrote:
i did mean POS.

Don't bother with hisec POS. Find a nice backwater low sec system and set up a large pos there. As long as it isn't a tech moon and you don't bother the locals it will be left alone. Get a cloaky ship to haul the goods there. Use blackfrog for fuel blocks if you can't build them in-system or don't have an access to JF. Just make sure that it is a station system and your corp has a hangar in the station and you will be fairly secure. Never store any blueprints or other valuables in the POS modules.
Emma Royd
Maddled Gommerils
#8 - 2012-11-18 07:37:51 UTC
Shaishi Otichoda wrote:
Prince Volcae wrote:
i did mean POS.

Don't bother with hisec POS. Find a nice backwater low sec system and set up a large pos there. As long as it isn't a tech moon and you don't bother the locals it will be left alone. Get a cloaky ship to haul the goods there. Use blackfrog for fuel blocks if you can't build them in-system or don't have an access to JF. Just make sure that it is a station system and your corp has a hangar in the station and you will be fairly secure. Never store any blueprints or other valuables in the POS modules.



Can I ask why you suggest low-sec?
Dasola
New Edens Freeports
#9 - 2012-11-18 11:51:30 UTC
Owning POS and doing indusrty and research stuff its bossible to make profit.

I have alt corp that runs small highsec pos for researching blueprints and ocasional t2 invention/manufacturing. PAys pos fuel without too much time spended on it... Could do much better if i would do it at full capasity...

Lowsec has only one benefit i can see and lots of disadvantages... No required standings.. But then again its so easy to buy corporation with standings now days, put up tower.... None of my research characters has no standings at all, so corp will maintain its initial standings...

Personally i would recomend getting stanings for highsec pos anchoring, if your planning on research/invention stuff...

We are Minmatar, Our ship are made of scraps, but look what our scraps can do...
Shaishi Otichoda
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-11-18 12:36:37 UTC
Emma Royd wrote:
Can I ask why you suggest low-sec?

There are several reasons:
1) Nobody cares about low-sec moons. There is no competition, so most likely nobody will be shooting your POS.
2) Faster traveling. You can drop a cyno or covert ops cyno if you feel like it.
3) Don't need to have standings and no need for charters.
4) You can do moon mining, if you wish.
5) You can manufacture drugs.
6) Free offices for very cheap prices.
7) You don't need to worry about faction standings nor sec status if you want to bring your main to support defending the POS in very unlikely case that it will get attacked.

As long as you are smart when it comes to traveling, it isn't all that dangerous. Down side is that you can't really autopilot to your station or POS. BPOs, BPCs, reports, datacores, etc can be hauled very easily using cloaky hauler. Use JF or blackfrog for the fuel if you don't manufacture or buy it locally.

Of course you could do the same in NPC nullsec as well, but then you need to be a bit more careful how you enter the nullsec. In this context pretty much only differences between null and low-sec are bubbles and jump distances. Don't use busy nullsec entry points and you'd end up paying a bit more for hauling. Also people tend to be more willing to field dreads in null than in low-sec.

If you attempt to do this in (sov-)null which is being held by player corp then you better be blue to them or very sneaky - otherwise your POS will be reinforced before you known it.
Shaishi Otichoda
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-11-18 12:41:37 UTC
Dasola wrote:
Lowsec has only one benefit i can see and lots of disadvantages... No required standings..
I'd ask this question other way around: what's the benefit of having a hisec POS? Begin close to market hub?

I'm not trolling and this is very honest question coming from a person who has had POSes in Hisec, lowsec and null. For me it is usually easier to run a lowsec or nullsec POS than one in hisec. In hisec you still need to worry about wardecs just like you need to worry about the attacks in losec. Only differences is that in hisec moon you are anchored to is premium estate everybody wants to have. This isn't the case in lowsec or nullsec.
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2012-11-18 13:53:43 UTC
Shaishi Otichoda wrote:
I'm not trolling and this is very honest question coming from a person who has had POSes in Hisec, lowsec and null. For me it is usually easier to run a lowsec or nullsec POS than one in hisec. In hisec you still need to worry about wardecs just like you need to worry about the attacks in losec. Only differences is that in hisec moon you are anchored to is premium estate everybody wants to have. This isn't the case in lowsec or nullsec.


If someone wants to take out your POS in lowsec, not only can they just go ahead and do it without the warning of a wardec, they can use capital ships to make the job trivial. In highsec, they have to pay to dec you and then plink away at your POS with whatever subcap they decide to use.

There's also the matter of getting whatever goods you're producing in the POS to market. That's a huge consideration, especially if you're doing more than research.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Emma Royd
Maddled Gommerils
#13 - 2012-11-18 14:28:07 UTC
There are advantages and disadvantages to High vs Low for pos's

Things like corp standing are an issue for high-sec, but on the other hand, the advantages are far easier logistics getting stuff to and from your pos, and it's not too difficult to either buy a ready made corp, or use one of the standing raising services available on the sell order forums.

High sec towers cost marginally more to run than low sec towers because you need the relevant starbase charters, but they're not exactly expensive, and a mission running session will build up enough LP's to get plenty to start you off should you wish to go down that route.

The hunt for moons in high-sec is vastly over hyped, there are plenty of moons available as long as you don't want to sit next door to a trade hub, if you're prepared to travel 7+ jumps to the hub then they're in abundance.

Office rental is common sense, don't look for offices with Level 4 agents for popular corps, factories, refineries and you should be able to get good rent rates.

I'm just saying because the OP is obviously fairly new, and I think aiming for low-sec towers is a big step.

Cyno's are only relevant if you're flying jump freighters, then there's the cost of fuel to take into consideration, unless you're thinking of building capitals there.

I've not heard moon mining being worth it in low-sec, even as an offset for the hassle involved.

You can manufacture drugs - ok, fair point, if that's a route you want to go down.


I'm not dissing your points, just seemed a big ask for a relatively inexperience player to start delving into low-sec for the few benefits he might gain compared to the potential hassles of running into low-sec.
Shaishi Otichoda
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-11-18 15:10:15 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
If someone wants to take out your POS in lowsec, not only can they just go ahead and do it without the warning of a wardec, they can use capital ships to make the job trivial. In highsec, they have to pay to dec you and then plink away at your POS with whatever subcap they decide to use.

This kind of a goes both ways, they can drop caps on the tower but it is easier to get a fleet to defend the tower in lowsec than high. There are lot of pirates and enemies of your enemies looking for cap kills so it is pretty easy to have them show up even if you are not blue to them. At the same time it is pretty difficult to get a fleet defend your hisec POS unless they are blue to you. From my point of view any POS that goes into reinforcement is considered lost unless you have significant fleet to back it up - therefore batphones to random alliances are a good way to get somebody to drop the fleet shooting your tower even if it comes with risk of them shooting your tower if enemy caps don't show up.

Snow Axe wrote:
There's also the matter of getting whatever goods you're producing in the POS to market. That's a huge consideration, especially if you're doing more than research.

Fair enough, I guess I'm too used to war decs and ganks. I am as worried about hauling in hisec as in lowsec. I understand this is not the case for everybody else.
Shaishi Otichoda
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-11-18 15:29:05 UTC
Emma Royd wrote:
There are advantages and disadvantages to High vs Low for pos's

Things like corp standing are an issue for high-sec, but on the other hand, the advantages are far easier logistics getting stuff to and from your pos, and it's not too difficult to either buy a ready made corp, or use one of the standing raising services available on the sell order forums.
Problem isn't just anchoring and onlining the tower but being able to maintain the standings so that you can anchor the tower again if you need to take it down for some reason.

Emma Royd wrote:
I'm not dissing your points, just seemed a big ask for a relatively inexperience player to start delving into low-sec for the few benefits he might gain compared to the potential hassles of running into low-sec.
True. Maybe this isn't a good first step, but it could come pretty soon. It isn't really as complicated as most people think.


In general there seem to be many corps who pretty easily war dec a hisec POS holding corp just to see if they can get some kills. Hisec war decs are pretty safe for the aggressor, especially if the other party is 1 or 2 man indy corp. They need to commit much more if they want to do the same in low-sec as then they need to worry about every random pilot and fleet that passes by the system.

Also, hauling to lowsec isn't really that big of an issue even for new pilot. Yes, they will need some guidance on how it is done safely but they should learn that anyway as it opens up a very lucrative market of supplying to lowsec systems. (hint: by supplying lowsec systems you can make a killing. And I don't mean just double the market hub profits, but real money)

This is the path I chose and thinking back I wish that I had been pointed to this path much earlier. It isn't for everybody but it is something everybody should at least consider.