EVE General Discussion

First let me state that of all the people to fire at CCP, the community managers wouldn't be on the top of my list. Top of the list will always be the douchebag who oversees NEX.

THAT SAID.

Much as we'd like the community team to keep their jobs, over the last week or so we've all noticed a huge spike in the amount of posting by people who can actually answer the questions we pose to them and take suggestions and make changes based on our input directly. We might like Fallout and the rest of them because we've had the most contact with them, but they aren't developers. And many times when we asked them questions the answer we got was "I'll forward your question to X and get back to you." Rarely did we get a followup.

I don't like to see anyone lose their job, but if the new policy is that we communicate directly with the developers instead of their proxies, isn't that preferable? I'd rather talk to the people who are actually writing code and making art and balancing ships, no offense to our former community team.

Further, again as much as we will miss them, I'd rather the money be spent on new space ship stuff. Call me selfish, but we're paying for and playing a game. I want as much of the company's resources devoted to the game's development as possible. And if that means an extra 200k a year can be spent on space ship stuff by eliminating a community management team and letting the players and devs communicate directly, that's not a terrible move from a customer's point of view.

Secondly, the developers who were fired, most of them, were working on WoD, not Eve. Now you could argue that instead of firing them CCP should have reassigned them -- but any time you merge development teams there's going to be redundancy. And when you're short on cash, having two lead designers just isn't a good way to spend it.

Aside from not canning a few who really needed it (CCP Douchebag), they're doing what we want them to with this move - letting us have direct input and focusing entirely on Eve. And beyond some hurt feelings, I think the controversy is being overblown. I like talking to the people making my spaceships.

Without taking any stand towards other stuff in the post;
obviously talking directly to the developer is more efficient than having 3rd party in between mixing the deck.

Simple trick question: Do you want devs that fix things in EVE and make new stuff or do you want devs that spend their work time on forums talking to the whining masses?

I know it's hard to answer, but come on, try!

Fair enough question. I'd answer this way: Does posting on a forum mean you can't perform your job? How many people post here at their jobs? How many post in their off hours or break time?

And don't we want the devs to take a bit of time away from developing to read, directly, what we want and to give them new idea?

And for that matter, how does getting peppered with questions from a community management team differ from just answering a question yourself? At least this way they can answer something.

You're rather assuming the loss of said staff will actually deliver an improved EVE.

Normally I would agree that your logic is sound, and in most instances it would be but based upon CCPs track record to date the loss of 20% of a work force is a pretty monstrously large cull.

You're also assuming that this 'rebalancing' is, as the dev post implies, is for the greater good of EVE Online. The stark reality is that its far more likely due to straightened financial circumstances.

The spin that's been placed upon these redundancies is that it is for the 'good of EVE Online' when I rather suspect that it will be more heavily based upon the failing business case of WoD - a realisation that extra high priced NeX items don't in fact sell very well and that their potential revenue does not justify the costs of technical development of the end product.

TL:DR - someone worked out that WoD wasn't going to make as much $ as first thought.

C.

Community manager. They usually talk to the people who know what is going on if they are good, they have the right skills for the job and the developers should be coding, not wiping our noses.



I would question their sanity if they wanted to keep working through their breaks.

Community manager. Typically from what I've seen, the com-dev team was much more knowledgeable about game mechanics and the way the community felt about subjects than most of the devs building the game are now.

Plus the com-dev team actually actively interacts with the community. The main devs are usually to busy doing their job to sit down and chat.

I agree with the sentiment of the OP completely, and I appreciate an alternative to the views I posted in my other thread. I think its completely fair to say that efficiency by removing the middle man is a legitimate reason to can you community managers during a time where the focus is supposedly on deepening ties with your community.

However - (and maybe I'm missing something by not working in the industry myself) - isn't the main reason for having a community manager to filter the information flowing between both parties?

This brings up a few questions -

Is it reasonable to expect the developers to read through every post in every threadnought to get through all the trolling and get to the meat of the argument? Admittedly, there are threads that progress so fast that I dont have enough time to read them all, so all I can do is comment on the last thing I saw and pray I'm not repeating something that's already been addressed elsewhere. I can easily see how digesting this rapidly incoming feedback could justify a full-time paid position.

Secondly, are the developers allowed to simply talk at will about the stuff they are working on? I'm assuming every bit of a developers handiwork is locked under a NDA, and I've always seen the community leaders as being the professional experts on what can be said when, and make sure that the information shared by developers is properly, well, "managed" before release to the public. Think of how much outrage is started over ideas that aren't concrete yet, I don't see free and open access to the developers and their works in progress as necessarily solving the OMG NERF!! RAGE problem so inherent in forum settings like this.

I welcome more information from the developers directly myself, I think most of us are mature enough (except for the occasional momentary lapse in judgement) to handle seeing works in progress without assuming its final and going to destroy Eve. But I sincerely doubt that CCP is suddenly more comfortable with just throwing open the doors to the developers and letting the forum crowd storm in with their demands, and rants.

Besides, if this is the intended reason for Zymurgist and Fallout's layoff, is there any reason that someone from CCP can't verify this?

It would go a long way towards restoring some faith and confidence in the company if CCP would simply say, "we're sorry your community leaders are no longer needed, but we have a new policy allowing developers to comment on their projects directly."

the devs, hands down. IMO its kind of like asking if you'd rather speak to the mechanic, or the guy at the counter; or if you'd prefer to speak to the attorney or their paralegal. Frankly, i'd rather get no response at all then someone telling me they can't answer my question but will forward it on to someone else.

not that i had any problem with those the community team, however i understand that sometimes tough decisions must be made, and in RL not every loss is covered by insurance.

for those that have never been on the other side of a layoff, its not all roses. having to fire good people that you've spent years working with isn't easy for anyone. reading some of the responses to this action makes me realize how detached some of you are from the real world. having the big title and corner office have their perks, but they also come at a price. days like today suck for everyone at CCP.

best wishes to those now looking for work, hopefully your time at CCP will help you find that next opportunity. you will be missed.

Posts like this are a nice reminder of the shares we have in CCP... Oh wait, that's right, we don't.