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New players opinion on carebears/ganking/risk/reward etc
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Melodee619
Heavy Industry Construction and Mining Inc.
#61 - 2012-11-05 22:07:19 UTC
Amnesiaa Haze wrote:
White Quake wrote:
Amnesiaa Haze wrote:
I'm currently learning the game, and being all but 5 days old in the game I am by no means experienced.

I like to read the forum and blog posts about the game in general, I think EVE has an awesome community as a whole...

A subject I seem to be crossing time and time again - is the one of carebears vs their opposites....

The argument that the risk of being ganked and losing your assets is "unfair", or discourages new players to join the game, should not be as "brutal" as it is, etc etc...


When I read on this subject, I refer to EVE, the description of the game, and how it was designed.

It seems to me like the game has been designed to be this way, people can gank you, people can steal from you, people can scam you, people can do what ever they want to you... to me that is the game, that is how the game is designed and intended... that is EVE.

And that is why I downloaded the free trial a few days ago, and that is why on my second day in the game... I logged into my account management to enter my credit card details and pay for this amazing game.


My opinion on the subject of "carebears" is one of little attention, sympathy or consideration... I think that "carebears" should be seen and not heard, they should receive no attention or consideration from the developers of this great game, and the reason for that is simple...

The things that carebears disagree with/want to be changed in order to benefit their own doings within the game... these things are EVE... that is the game, the way it was intended to be... if somebody is able to target and engage you as a target in hisec, and the game mechanics allow for that to be done... that is the design of the game, if you don't like that then you may choose to stop playing...?

People are subscribing to the game because it is a great game, "a sandbox risk/reward hardcore game in which you are never safe"... THAT is appealing, that is thrilling and that is fun... if you change that, and alter the description to "safe mining where you can mine asteroid belts and never be killed"... that is not appealing, that to me sounds boring and I would have never entered my credit card details and given my money to CCP if that was the case.


Just my opinion on the trending topic, thanks.


A 5 day old player would not care about the forums, nor have this much info on this game

PvP alt


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=168777

I have been playing EVE for a matter of days... though I have been playing games for many years, I'm a fast learner, I love to read and research about the games I am playing, and forums are the first thing I tend to look for when picking up a new game - especially MMORPGs



It's a refreshing change to get someone who isnt screaming for CCP to hold their hand.
Sadly in Scope NPC all we have are us burnouts from 0.0, an carebears who are demanding CCP remove the ability for them to die. They want lowsec to be fully protected because, an I quote here....:

"It isnt fair that they cant mine where they want to without being griefed....."

Todays playerbase are in part wow players an the like, they hate risk, dont like self responsibility an will never stop demanding CCP play the game for them. Sadly CCP are doing it with crime watch an miner buff etc.

So well done to you :)
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#62 - 2012-11-06 09:09:29 UTC
Vertinox wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Fake. Post with your Main.


Yeah. I don't know why people are so hell bent on converting Hi-Sec into Low Sec. You don't see people going on and on about making Null and Low carebear land do you?


Yes.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Baby ChuChu
Ice Cream Asylum
#63 - 2012-11-06 09:21:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Baby ChuChu
Like...where are all these mythical beings claiming to want a more carebear-friendly game? Because, it seems to me that all we see is something along the lines "carebears need to die and after they're dead we should **** their skulls! Wooooooooooooooo low-sec for life esse!"
White Quake
Doomheim
#64 - 2012-11-06 11:13:58 UTC
Melodee619 wrote:
Amnesiaa Haze wrote:
White Quake wrote:
Amnesiaa Haze wrote:
I'm currently learning the game, and being all but 5 days old in the game I am by no means experienced.

I like to read the forum and blog posts about the game in general, I think EVE has an awesome community as a whole...

A subject I seem to be crossing time and time again - is the one of carebears vs their opposites....

The argument that the risk of being ganked and losing your assets is "unfair", or discourages new players to join the game, should not be as "brutal" as it is, etc etc...


When I read on this subject, I refer to EVE, the description of the game, and how it was designed.

It seems to me like the game has been designed to be this way, people can gank you, people can steal from you, people can scam you, people can do what ever they want to you... to me that is the game, that is how the game is designed and intended... that is EVE.

And that is why I downloaded the free trial a few days ago, and that is why on my second day in the game... I logged into my account management to enter my credit card details and pay for this amazing game.


My opinion on the subject of "carebears" is one of little attention, sympathy or consideration... I think that "carebears" should be seen and not heard, they should receive no attention or consideration from the developers of this great game, and the reason for that is simple...

The things that carebears disagree with/want to be changed in order to benefit their own doings within the game... these things are EVE... that is the game, the way it was intended to be... if somebody is able to target and engage you as a target in hisec, and the game mechanics allow for that to be done... that is the design of the game, if you don't like that then you may choose to stop playing...?

People are subscribing to the game because it is a great game, "a sandbox risk/reward hardcore game in which you are never safe"... THAT is appealing, that is thrilling and that is fun... if you change that, and alter the description to "safe mining where you can mine asteroid belts and never be killed"... that is not appealing, that to me sounds boring and I would have never entered my credit card details and given my money to CCP if that was the case.


Just my opinion on the trending topic, thanks.


A 5 day old player would not care about the forums, nor have this much info on this game

PvP alt


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=168777

I have been playing EVE for a matter of days... though I have been playing games for many years, I'm a fast learner, I love to read and research about the games I am playing, and forums are the first thing I tend to look for when picking up a new game - especially MMORPGs



It's a refreshing change to get someone who isnt screaming for CCP to hold their hand.
Sadly in Scope NPC all we have are us burnouts from 0.0, an carebears who are demanding CCP remove the ability for them to die. They want lowsec to be fully protected because, an I quote here....:

"It isnt fair that they cant mine where they want to without being griefed....."

Todays playerbase are in part wow players an the like, they hate risk, dont like self responsibility an will never stop demanding CCP play the game for them. Sadly CCP are doing it with crime watch an miner buff etc.

So well done to you :)


with all due respect a new player would spend his trial learning the game, not the politics of the game. Its quite clearly an alt isnt it. think about it. And with all due respect, i have been here since 03, guess what, i play wow, simply because you play wow doesnt make you a bad person
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#65 - 2012-11-06 11:17:22 UTC
Baby ChuChu wrote:
Like...where are all these mythical beings claiming to want a more carebear-friendly game? Because, it seems to me that all we see is something along the lines "carebears need to die and after they're dead we should **** their skulls! Wooooooooooooooo low-sec for life esse!"

Skulls chafe far too much.

Also, you must be new here if you don't see people whining about how gankers are a problem.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=169116&find=unread

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Deatalious Maricadie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2012-11-06 12:27:23 UTC
Amnesiaa Haze wrote:


"safe mining where you can mine asteroid belts and never be killed"



If it is a legitimate carebear the asteroid body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down.
Arcaus Rotrau Romali
Empyrean Enterprise Conglomerate
#67 - 2012-11-06 15:26:40 UTC
I tried to learn about the game before my trial so could make the best use of the time I'd have and after about 10 days I paid up because I really enjoyed what I found, I didn't spend too much time in the forums but I did get the gist of what goes on here and was fairly well versed in the mechanics after a few days.

As for the OP topic, 'carebears' and such, I'm a hi-sec miner by trade, that's where I make money to support my hobby which is attempting to solo mine in lo-sec. I don't expect to be immune to attack in hi-sec but I'm just a little fish there compared to freighters and plex movers. Even in lo-sec I'm still a little fish but I know I'm on my own and liable to get blown outta my ship, so far that's actually been the end result 3 of 4 attempts. Each time though I learn how to improve my odds for the next trip, I've even had conversations with some of the people who got me who were cool enough to give me advice afterwards.

tl;dr ~ I'm kind of new, usually hi-sec but I've got lo/null sec ambitions, I like EVE and don't want it too change too much.
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#68 - 2012-11-06 16:12:44 UTC
Amnesiaa Haze wrote:
The things that carebears disagree with/want to be changed in order to benefit their own doings within the game... these things are EVE... that is the game, the way it was intended to be... if somebody is able to target and engage you as a target in hisec, and the game mechanics allow for that to be done... that is the design of the game, if you don't like that then you may choose to stop playing...?


This depends entirely on what your goal is.

In CCPs shoes, my goal would be to make money. First and foremost. I have bills to pay, and I wouldn't be running a game as a charity. With that in mind, who is my player base? Well, polls indicate as high as 60% of players live in high sec. Meaning, they're "carebears". Then there's about 20% in null, 10% in WH and the remainder in low. Rough numbers, you understand.

So, if I were CCP, who do you think I should listen to, if I wanted to make money? Should I listen to 60% of my player base, 20%, 10% or another 10%? Especially when 60% say "stop ganking me" and the remaining 40% say "If I can't gank carebears, I quit"? It's sort of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Cater too much to carebears, and economy tanks as nothing blows up. Cater too much to the overaggressive nutjobs, and see 60% of your population walk off - which inevitably follows by remaining 40% walking off out of boredom because it's not like they'll go shooting each other, because they might actually get shot back at, and they can't have that... Roll

But to go as far as to say the game is designed this way, and if you don't like it, quit, it's a bit...how shall I put this nicely...stupid? Imagine running a convenience store, and a customer suggests something, which might positively affect 60% of your customers, and only indirectly affect some of the remaining 40%, and your suggestion would be to tell that customer to stop whining, HTFU or take his money to the other convenience store across the street? You'd be out of business in 3, 2, 1, done.

Bottom line, encouraging people to quit, in an MMO, is as stupid as it gets. MMOs, especially sandbox MMOs, are very malleable and have the potential to accommodate all forms of gameplay. If you choose one gameplay style, PvP for example, and force it onto people who prefer a different gameplay style, like PvE, in a sandbox game, you'll be looking at Chapter 11 pretty quickly. Just look at Mortal Online, or Darkfall, or any other "100% PvP" failures.
Dar Manic
Dirt Road Services
#69 - 2012-11-06 17:43:31 UTC
" Then there's about 20% in null, 10% in WH and the remainder in low. Rough numbers, you understand."

Patently not true according to some null-sec players. Most hi-sec accounts are alts of null players. Any changes to hi-sec won't hurt the number of players in EVE. ;)

I just don't understand null sec players.

**Please note: **Anytime I use the phrase PvP in a post, I'm talking about shooting/combat/killing things/blowing things up. Thank you.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#70 - 2012-11-06 17:47:06 UTC
Dar Manic wrote:
" Then there's about 20% in null, 10% in WH and the remainder in low. Rough numbers, you understand."

Patently not true according to some null-sec players. Most hi-sec accounts are alts of null players. Any changes to hi-sec won't hurt the number of players in EVE. ;)



Absolutely nobody knows how many high seccers are null alts except CCP.

Useless to quote figures or even guesses here. That's all they are.....a guess.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Destru Kaneda
Arzad Police Department
#71 - 2012-11-07 13:28:00 UTC
Anosha de'Cavemann wrote:
Destru Kaneda wrote:
A FIVE DAY OLD PLAYER THAT USES FORAMS AND KNOWS WAT GANKING IS? UMPOSSIBLE.


I'm just over 2 months old, I was on the forums while the client was downloading. Any intelligent person who wants to play EVE is going to their homework. I'm pretty sure I understood what a 'gank' was my first week.

Choo choo.

I like it best when the beats are naked.
Fabulous Rod
Darkfall Corp
#72 - 2012-11-07 17:27:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Fabulous Rod
I'm a relatively new players and I'm of the opinion that EVE is so devoid of player skill to the point that even the most awful players can get kills if they are fortunate enough to be in the right ship. Its class-based,always imbalanced pvp for the most part and the last bastion of the awful pvper who has gotten **** on in other, more skill demanding games. It might not be so bad if it wasn't so easymode that you are able to succesfully pvp using multiple accounts at the same time. Something that is near impossible to do in other games due to the fact that they are actually skill demanding.

Its also disgusting how these huge zergs of afraid-to-lose douchebags have formed and that they are the ones dominating the galaxy. Also solo play is not very viable, which is detrimental to the idea of a true sandbox. Who wants to get ganked by packs of awful **** players everytime they want to pvp? Oh, I need a posse with me all the time to play this game? If that were entirely true, id quit this very moment.

as for the risk vs reward, it has also been nonexistent for aggressors who know how to eliminate any possibility of them being blown up. Fortunately CCP is changing that with crimewatch. hopefully its not too late.
Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#73 - 2012-11-07 17:40:34 UTC
Great post to bad its fake.... But some points are right and some well...
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#74 - 2012-11-07 18:48:33 UTC
Fabulous Rod wrote:
I'm a relatively new players and I'm of the opinion that EVE is so devoid of player skill to the point that even the most awful players can get kills if they are fortunate enough to be in the right ship. Its class-based,always imbalanced pvp for the most part and the last bastion of the awful pvper who has gotten **** on in other, more skill demanding games. It might not be so bad if it wasn't so easymode that you are able to succesfully pvp using multiple accounts at the same time. Something that is near impossible to do in other games due to the fact that they are actually skill demanding.

Its also disgusting how these huge zergs of afraid-to-lose douchebags have formed and that they are the ones dominating the galaxy. Also solo play is not very viable, which is detrimental to the idea of a true sandbox. Who wants to get ganked by packs of awful **** players everytime they want to pvp? Oh, I need a posse with me all the time to play this game? If that were entirely true, id quit this very moment.

as for the risk vs reward, it has also been nonexistent for aggressors who know how to eliminate any possibility of them being blown up. Fortunately CCP is changing that with crimewatch. hopefully its not too late.

Define 'skill'.

There are more pvp type skills than being good at twitching your mouse, after all.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#75 - 2012-11-07 19:58:57 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
The PvP element of EVE is in the minority and without the Carebears in HighSec, EVE would surely die.

You actually believe this? Eve is a game based on economic circulation, this whole game is a huge cycle of ship being blown up and ships being produced. Guess what happens when no one's blowing each other up?

Ok now say, in a hypothetical scenario when pvp, or people shooting other people cease to exist in Eve. What do you think will happen? that cycle, will be broken, production will have no value due to massive decrease in demand, why bother producing beer if no one's interested on drinking after their first sip? If this was the case, the producers (or carebear in this sense) will stop playing. The difference is, "carebears" or anti-pvp people won't start shooting each other, they will just quit. Pvp-ers on the other hand, might start doing the production instead.

Both pvp-ers (people who blow stuff and get blown) and industrialist plays an important part, but in this case, you are dead wrong.

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
#76 - 2012-11-07 20:13:28 UTC
Posting in a thread by a fake noob. GD forum is already flooded with 5 day old toons harping on carebears, nothing new here but the angle. This approach merely attempts to imbue the issue with the same type of altruism that people ascribe to the observations of children.

"My gosh, if a noob says it, it must be true."

Yeah, and cake for every meal is good for you, and if you turn the light on the monsters go away right?
Amnesiaa Haze
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#77 - 2012-11-07 22:21:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Amnesiaa Haze
I'm puzzled by the fact that because I joined the game and was quick to understand it, felt like sharing my opinion on the subject with the forum... apparently I'm a "fake noob", as if my opinion is of more or less significance depending on when I joined the game.

Still, I take it as a compliment that people are impressed with my knowledge being only 1 week old within the game, if my opinion and knowledge suggests to people that I have been playing for longer than I say... then I must be doing something right.
Gussarde en Welle
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2012-11-07 22:48:29 UTC
Amnesiaa Haze wrote:
I'm currently learning the game, and being all but 5 days old in the game I am by no means experienced.

I like to read the forum and blog posts about the game in general, I think EVE has an awesome community as a whole...

A subject I seem to be crossing time and time again - is the one of carebears vs their opposites....

The argument that the risk of being ganked and losing your assets is "unfair", or discourages new players to join the game, should not be as "brutal" as it is, etc etc...


When I read on this subject, I refer to EVE, the description of the game, and how it was designed.

It seems to me like the game has been designed to be this way, people can gank you, people can steal from you, people can scam you, people can do what ever they want to you... to me that is the game, that is how the game is designed and intended... that is EVE.

And that is why I downloaded the free trial a few days ago, and that is why on my second day in the game... I logged into my account management to enter my credit card details and pay for this amazing game.


My opinion on the subject of "carebears" is one of little attention, sympathy or consideration... I think that "carebears" should be seen and not heard, they should receive no attention or consideration from the developers of this great game, and the reason for that is simple...

The things that carebears disagree with/want to be changed in order to benefit their own doings within the game... these things are EVE... that is the game, the way it was intended to be... if somebody is able to target and engage you as a target in hisec, and the game mechanics allow for that to be done... that is the design of the game, if you don't like that then you may choose to stop playing...?

People are subscribing to the game because it is a great game, "a sandbox risk/reward hardcore game in which you are never safe"... THAT is appealing, that is thrilling and that is fun... if you change that, and alter the description to "safe mining where you can mine asteroid belts and never be killed"... that is not appealing, that to me sounds boring and I would have never entered my credit card details and given my money to CCP if that was the case.


Just my opinion on the trending topic, thanks.


Sock puppet/Troll/Sock Puppet-Troll
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
#79 - 2012-11-08 17:33:50 UTC
Amnesiaa Haze wrote:
I'm puzzled by the fact that because I joined the game and was quick to understand it, felt like sharing my opinion on the subject with the forum... apparently I'm a "fake noob", as if my opinion is of more or less significance depending on when I joined the game.

Still, I take it as a compliment that people are impressed with my knowledge being only 1 week old within the game, if my opinion and knowledge suggests to people that I have been playing for longer than I say... then I must be doing something right.


It is not the length of your EvE tenure that determines the signifigance of your words, only that they appear to be couched in such away as to give them some kind of apparent authority and that YOU do not appear on the surface to be who you claim to be.

However, to respond to your original points. All of those things you listed are what EvE means to YOU. That does not mean that it must be so for someone else. Everyone wants something more or less different from EvE than everyone else, otherwise we would all be in lockstep on our expectations then there would be nothing to talk about on the forums.

With that said, one would think that a place coloquially referred to as "highsec" would actually be, you know, high security. Seeing as how CCP saw fit to also place into "highsec" a police force it would seem that they are attempting to prevent undesireable behavior on the part of others. Merely asking for that level to be increased does not seem all that unreasonable. As in real life, just because you could be killed randomly at any time has no bearing on whether that SHOULD be the case. And CCP has the power to mitigate that risk in a way not possible in real life.

No one is asking for a categorical and programatic block on being able to agress, only that the penalties for such agression be more significant. Suicide ganking people should always be a possibility, but it should not be so predictable in outcome that you have a whole subset of people that use nothing more than the ingame calculator to figure out if it is profitable or not.

Since we are all paying for this game, in one way or another, we are all entitled to get what we want out of it. There is plenty of "PvP" to be had without imposing your antisocial goals onto those who just want to be left alone. But, I already know you wont accept that. The reason people prey on "carebears" is because they are a target that is typically unaware or unable to retaliate immediately, thus allowing you to mitigate YOUR risk, but still satisfying your need to be an ass and have "control" over others. Gankers wont go to low or null, because they know they will get their ass handed to them.
Blind Phew
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#80 - 2012-11-08 17:42:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Blind Phew
Great another 5 day know it all... who can't wait to tell us all who is important in game and who isn't.

Creep...


Amnesiaa Haze wrote:
...as if my opinion is of more or less significance depending on when I joined the game.

It's less significant...MUCH less...

Quote:
Still, I take it as a compliment that people are impressed with my knowledge being only 1 week old within the game.

No one believes you, besides you really don't have a lot of knowledge anyway...