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Torp Range Nerf????

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Kai'rae Saarkus
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#41 - 2012-11-06 07:39:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Kai'rae Saarkus
Karina Mendoc Kuget wrote:
Kai'rae Saarkus wrote:

Edit: I'd also suggest checking out this - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=168820 - thread for the TP changes. Which will also Buff Torps.


Maybe I did miss something according to the Dev posts ive read the changes to modules affecting missiles has been "postPWND" by the Devs. Until they "see how the current missile changes affect eve".

So in other words they wont be making those changes for Retribution.

CCP Fozzie wrote:
Tracking/Range Mods and Ewar
Tracking mod and disruptor changes moved out of this release until the first set of changes settles a bit


My point linking that thread is that TP bonuses are getting changed. On a Belicose you get a 7.5% Bonus, on a Huginn or a Golem you get a 10% bonus.

Talking about TE / TC / TD changes is irrelevant: sure if it happens it will be a buff, but

Quote:
Meaning the GMP skill as you say at level 4 yes will reduce t2 rage torps down to 619 explosion radius this still means the TP are a required fitting to hit an enemy battleship at ShockedanyShocked range for full dps. In addition to this still means you also need a web to hit for full dps at any range due to the horrid explosion velocity of rage torpedoes (61 + 50% at lvl 5) = 91.5 which is about 10 to 20% below the average rate of speed for a Battleship not MWDing or AFBing.
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TLDR Roll you will still need two modules as basically a requirement for dealing full dps at any range even with maxed or near maxed tertiary skills.


That's true of Hail, Void and Conflag. They're horrible when shooting at a similar sized target that's unwebbed. Like T2 Rage, all close-range high damage ammo works best when shooting at targets bigger than your guns; or against targets that are dual-webbed or webbed+tp'd.

[quote]What good is a buff as you say thats big but still doesnt make the item in question usable?


Because it's an incremental improvement. Retribution will improve Torps and will make them a little bit more viable. The next expansion should see the Tiercide of Battleships; this will allow CCP to fix the hulls that fire Torps and to look at BS sized weapons in the same way that theý've readjusted the values on Medium sized weapons.

For some perspective, these are the numbers:
Raw DPS: +5.6% Rage Torps, T1/Faction/Javelin unchanged
EXP Radius: -10.7% Rage Torps, -25% T1 / Faction / Javelin Torps
Range: -12.1% Rage Torps, T1/Faction/Javelin unchanged

Which is a massive buff to Torps overall (albeit only a minor buff to Rage), and (I would imagine) make the Torp Golem (in particular) much more viable for PVE. However, as I stated before, I don't really see this changing their use generally.

The reason I don't foresee the use of Torps changing significantly, has more to do with the state of Eve gameplay than anything else.
Torps are primarily a BS weapon; BSs are primarily fleet ships; fleet combat range ATM is approx >60Km. Torps are also extremely ineffective against AHACs, a common fleet composition.
In small gangs, the Mega hulls largely outperform Torp ships as close-range damage dealers due to the ability to get massive armour EHP and fit tackle. Their tracking bonus also serves to make them viable against smaller targets in a way Torp ships won't really ever be able to replicate.
In medium gangs (in 0.0), the proliferation of Tier3s means that kiting Close-Ranged BSs whilst doing BS equivalent damage is trivial.
Pertuabo Enkidgan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2012-11-06 07:49:38 UTC
Kai'rae Saarkus wrote:

Because it's an incremental improvement. Retribution will improve Torps and will make them a little bit more viable. The next expansion should see the Tiercide of Battleships; this will allow CCP to fix the hulls that fire Torps and to look at BS sized weapons in the same way that theý've readjusted the values on Medium sized weapons.


I wish they took a look at Quad Light Beam lasers . It's still a bit underpowered to the rest of the lasers.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2012-11-06 09:24:29 UTC
Uh, why are they nerfing heavy missiles? That's a terrible decision.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Karina Mendoc Kuget
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#44 - 2012-11-06 20:59:24 UTC
Kai'rae Saarkus wrote:


My point linking that thread is that TP bonuses are getting changed. On a Belicose you get a 7.5% Bonus, on a Huginn or a Golem you get a 10% bonus.

Talking about TE / TC / TD changes is irrelevant: sure if it happens it will be a buff, but


As the Golem is known to be purely a PVE ship that still needs to fit at least 2 TP which wont really change with this "buff" as its only a 10% buff overall at level 5 and as the belicose is not even a missile boat the point that they are getting buffed is completely meaningless

Kai'rae Saarkus wrote:


That's true of Hail, Void and Conflag. They're horrible when shooting at a similar sized target that's unwebbed. Like T2 Rage, all close-range high damage ammo works best when shooting at targets bigger than your guns; or against targets that are dual-webbed or webbed+tp'd.
[/quote]

This is completely untrue. Conflagration L in a t2 pulse laser has a sig of 400... Void L in a neutron blaster 2 has a sig of 400 etc etc etc. This means that these ships hit every battleship for full dps and depending on ship fitting some shield BC's for full dps. The thing is that their Tracking speed is crippled by this ammo.

If a target moves directly towards or away and has no transverse velocity they hit for full dps. If the target sits still they hit for full dps. if the target is webbed they hit for a good portion of their dps. If the target is TP it doesnt matter if its a battleship sized hull. It just means they get a bonus above normal to their damage with more perfectly or more wrecking shots. This means that even if the target is moving there are ranges and situations where a turret BS will hit for full dps without any web or tp tracking enhancer or otherwise.

There is NO situation when a rage Torp ship can hit for full dps against id probably say over 80% of battleship fittings in eve without at the Very least a Target painter and probably the target being webbed as well.

This is why you rarely see a frigate being insta'd by a torp or cruise missile where as a you can see intys and t1 frigs get 1 volleyd constantly by turret ships.

Torps have been changed so much now that they can miss fast moving frigates as well as being destroyed much in the way turrets can miss or do little damage on a hit. Yet they have never been changed to deal their damage as turrets can and their range continues to decrease, while having fitting requirements that dont mach up with their close range turret counterparts. And this is on missile boats. The problem is even more ridiculous on ships that dont have bonuses yet have multiple missile slots.
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