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Warfare & Tactics

 
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Faction Warfare - Same As It Ever Was

First post
Author
Dan Carter Murray
#261 - 2012-11-05 18:31:45 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:

the topic is whether or not players can make enough isk in FW to stay in ships.


1 minor plex is about 15-17 mil for amarr.

that's 1.5 or so coercers fit to wreck shop.

that's like 12 coercers fit to annoy the shop (meta 0 or meta 1 fit).

that's like a cruiser hull plus some meta 0 or meta 1 fittings.

that's like a slicer hull.

2 minor plex will get you a t1 cruiser hull plus good fittings.

etc. etc.

etc. etc.

http://mfi.re/?j7ldoco 50GB free space @ MediaFire.com

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#262 - 2012-11-05 20:24:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Abyssum Invocat wrote:
Cearain wrote:
kraiklyn Asatru wrote:
[rant]

Cearain has a weird sense of entitlement. He wants ISK, he wants it for free. He doesnt want to do all those things the minmatar do to gain that isk. He doesnt want to defend or have to run plexes. We have spend a lot of LP upgrading, night and nights plexing and defending, running after your isk farmers. What do you do? You make an alt and farm yourself, then you start complaining about minmatar plexing. If you remove all your damn alts ww would be losing a lot of numbers haha. Or are you forgetting about your alt corp Tribal Outlaws??? You know the corp whos POSes you use to hide your Amarr main PVP ships in.

Suck it up, stop being a whiny baby. Grow a bloody spine and take responsibility. Be a ******* MAN for a change.

[/rant]



Really you sound like a casino. "Keep playing." "How can you win when you don't play?" Yeah everything is stacked in my favor but you don't want to be a quitter do you? Sorry I don't gamble at casinos.


You don't know anything about what I did with my alts or what I suggested my corp/militia should do with respect to plexing. Inferno was imbalanced but it had some mechanics for balance. I was one of the main people in amarr who argued to use those balancing mechanics to the upmost and keep plexing for amarr.

Now that even those meager balancing mechanics have been reduced/removed I can't honestly say its in our best interest to keep doing this occupancy war. Telling my corp and militia mates that they should keep engaging this plexing mechanic is just like telling them they should keep going to the casino.


That metaphor is atrocious and inapplicable. Running a plex is no more similar to gambling than PvP is.



Both(pvp and plexing) have some simillarity to gambling, both pay one side 2.5xs what it pays the other side. Very few casino games are that slanted because, no one would play.

It's clearly dumb from an economic perspective to choose to fight for the losing side.

Some people argue that pvp is better when you are outshipped and outnumbered. That hasn't been my experience, but lets see how it goes.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Abyssum Invocat
Yet Another Tax Haven
#263 - 2012-11-05 22:50:36 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Abyssum Invocat wrote:
Cearain wrote:
kraiklyn Asatru wrote:
[rant]

Cearain has a weird sense of entitlement. He wants ISK, he wants it for free. He doesnt want to do all those things the minmatar do to gain that isk. He doesnt want to defend or have to run plexes. We have spend a lot of LP upgrading, night and nights plexing and defending, running after your isk farmers. What do you do? You make an alt and farm yourself, then you start complaining about minmatar plexing. If you remove all your damn alts ww would be losing a lot of numbers haha. Or are you forgetting about your alt corp Tribal Outlaws??? You know the corp whos POSes you use to hide your Amarr main PVP ships in.

Suck it up, stop being a whiny baby. Grow a bloody spine and take responsibility. Be a ******* MAN for a change.

[/rant]



Really you sound like a casino. "Keep playing." "How can you win when you don't play?" Yeah everything is stacked in my favor but you don't want to be a quitter do you? Sorry I don't gamble at casinos.


You don't know anything about what I did with my alts or what I suggested my corp/militia should do with respect to plexing. Inferno was imbalanced but it had some mechanics for balance. I was one of the main people in amarr who argued to use those balancing mechanics to the upmost and keep plexing for amarr.

Now that even those meager balancing mechanics have been reduced/removed I can't honestly say its in our best interest to keep doing this occupancy war. Telling my corp and militia mates that they should keep engaging this plexing mechanic is just like telling them they should keep going to the casino.


That metaphor is atrocious and inapplicable. Running a plex is no more similar to gambling than PvP is.



Both(pvp and plexing) have some simillarity to gambling, both pay one side 2.5xs what it pays the other side. Very few casino games are that slanted because, no one would play.

It's clearly dumb from an economic perspective to choose to fight for the losing side.

Some people argue that pvp is better when you are outshipped and outnumbered. That hasn't been my experience, but lets see how it goes.

But that's wrong, because every time you complete a plex you are making money regardless. It is not some pull of a slot machine where you stand to lose your money by completing a plex. Do you refuse to buy anything from the market because some guy bought the item for cheaper and you don't want him to make anything? If you want a single player game in which to practice hardcore isolationism then there are many out there you would enjoy.

You don't like making less money? That's a separate issue and the solution is simple, go take some systems and improve your situation yourself.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#264 - 2012-11-05 23:32:50 UTC
Dan Carter Murray wrote:
lies. he ejects from ship. then cynthia jumps in it and flies it like it was stolen. this has happened, what, six times now?
How can you guys do this when your side cannot even afford to fly any ships? /me confused.
Hacca Kerpeten
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#265 - 2012-11-05 23:37:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Hacca Kerpeten
Abyssum Invocat wrote:
You don't like making less money? That's a separate issue and the solution is simple, go take some systems and improve your situation yourself.


Or better join to a already winning militia. What is this Amarr fanatism seriously? If anyone believes he'll make more money and having a better time on another militia, why not joining them directly. If you have standing problems with Minmatar move to Caldari, or make a Minmatar alt.

Cearain continously writing about how unfair fighting in Amarr side. He might be right or wrong, I don't care. But what I don't understand is why he's insisting on making it fair. If it's not fair, use it to it extends. That's the only 100% guaranteed way for game developers understand there is a problem if there is one. Use it for your own benefit. If enough people do it, developers change it. That's simple.

You can't change the game by whining on forums. You can change it by your actions/organization in game. Co-operate with other strong Amarr corporations and all move to Caldari. While it's that simple why you're forcing the hard way?
marketjacker
Mr. Clean Corp..
#266 - 2012-11-06 03:23:13 UTC
well one, they've never done it but everytime i warped away they thought "**** yea we got to troll him" like I gave a **** lol. Also a tengu is a ship like any other and can be killed by 5-7 ships flown by angry little kids like any other. It's the fact you guys thought it was a great achievement to kill a tengu once that I find so hilarious. You must be doing FW wrong if you don't have 5+bil at all times, but then again you sat around defensive plexing and hiding from goodfights.

you loved trying to stick to smaller plexes and used a legion whenever you had one, it's not my fault you can't buy a link char or train one, scrubs.
Dan Carter Murray
#267 - 2012-11-06 03:47:52 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Dan Carter Murray wrote:
lies. he ejects from ship. then cynthia jumps in it and flies it like it was stolen. this has happened, what, six times now?
How can you guys do this when your side cannot even afford to fly any ships? /me confused.


None of us complain about isk.

The Peanut Gallery wrote:

well one, they've never done it but everytime i warped away they thought "**** yea we got to troll him" like I gave a **** lol. Also a tengu is a ship like any other and can be killed by 5-7 ships flown by angry little kids like any other. It's the fact you guys thought it was a great achievement to kill a tengu once that I find so hilarious. You must be doing FW wrong if you don't have 5+bil at all times, but then again you sat around defensive plexing and hiding from goodfights.

you loved trying to stick to smaller plexes and used a legion whenever you had one, it's not my fault you can't buy a link char or train one, scrubs.

a) you gave a **** because you cried
b) we love killing anyone who is a dipshit highschooler who listens to dubstep
c)
Dan Carter Murray wrote:

None of us complain about isk.


finally, i demand CCP start making "ejectmails" because you've ejected from so many tengus that...
Dan Carter Murray wrote:

None of us complain about isk.

http://mfi.re/?j7ldoco 50GB free space @ MediaFire.com

Stalking Mantis
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#268 - 2012-11-06 04:41:38 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Dan Carter Murray wrote:
lies. he ejects from ship. then cynthia jumps in it and flies it like it was stolen. this has happened, what, six times now?
How can you guys do this when your side cannot even afford to fly any ships? /me confused.


I think you have us confused with someone that refuses to log into the game and/or fight for our systems/lp.

Last time i checked I have more ships than I know what to do with. Difference is I don't waste my money on 300 or 400 milion isk ships that I don't undock without triage support and/or a logi chain.

With 300 or 400 million isk I usually buy a months (two weeks worth if I am extremely aggressive with them) worth of cruisers, dessies, assault frigs and the occasional bc.

Not to mention an endless supply of navy mods/ships even at tier one or two. So what if the other guy gets them cheaper it doesn't mean I don't have the means to get them both lp and lp generating wise. It also doesnt mean that I refuse to enjoy the game because the other side gets them cheaper.

Problem is ehhh......well......I undock and play the game.

Amarr Liason Officer Extraordinare -->Check Out Amarrian Vengeance/Amarr FW History from 2011 to 2014 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=352629&find=unread

Stalking Mantis
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#269 - 2012-11-06 04:45:26 UTC
Even back in my days in tier one Amarr people were complaining about how there lp was worthless and I was selling navy omens at around 120 mil isk a pop and navy slicers for around 35 mil isk a pop (supply and demand) so what exactly people are complaining about when they refuse to partake in changing their situation is beyond me.

Amarr Liason Officer Extraordinare -->Check Out Amarrian Vengeance/Amarr FW History from 2011 to 2014 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=352629&find=unread

marketjacker
Mr. Clean Corp..
#270 - 2012-11-06 06:38:31 UTC
DCM so mad, so bad.
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#271 - 2012-11-06 09:25:07 UTC
Stalking Mantis wrote:
Even back in my days in tier one Amarr people were complaining about how there lp was worthless and I was selling navy omens at around 120 mil isk a pop and navy slicers for around 35 mil isk a pop (supply and demand) so what exactly people are complaining about when they refuse to partake in changing their situation is beyond me.



I agree theres plenty of isk for Amarr, the problem is that a new comer to fw can choose some isk, or choose more isk.

'Greed is good' remember, well no its not good really, but it is real. It would defy logic to join a fw side you have no previous affiliation for, for less places to dock and get paid less to do the same actions.

its about balancing the flow of new players and corporations.

Im perfectly happy with the isk im able to make if i wanted or needed it, but the pvp and system ownership is always going to be one sided because the general population is not stupid.

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#272 - 2012-11-06 13:49:01 UTC
Abyssum Invocat wrote:
Cearain wrote:




Both(pvp and plexing) have some simillarity to gambling, both pay one side 2.5xs what it pays the other side. Very few casino games are that slanted because, no one would play.

It's clearly dumb from an economic perspective to choose to fight for the losing side.

Some people argue that pvp is better when you are outshipped and outnumbered. That hasn't been my experience, but lets see how it goes.

But that's wrong, because every time you complete a plex you are making money regardless. It is not some pull of a slot machine where you stand to lose your money by completing a plex. .


I guess your assumption is there won't be any pvp that might make completing the plex uncertain.
Abyssum Invocat wrote:

Do you refuse to buy anything from the market because some guy bought the item for cheaper and you don't want him to make anything? If you want a single player game in which to practice hardcore isolationism then there are many out there you would enjoy.

You don't like making less money? That's a separate issue and the solution is simple, go take some systems and improve your situation yourself.



If i see someone on the market selling the same thing for less I will pay less. As people join fw they will see one side pays less and one pays more for the same thing. Are they going to choose less pay or more pay? I think I know the answer although you may pretend to be unsure. But time will tell.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Kazim Scumling
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#273 - 2012-11-06 14:29:02 UTC
Cearain wrote:
If i see someone on the market selling the same thing for less I will pay less. As people join fw they will see one side pays less and one pays more for the same thing. Are they going to choose less pay or more pay? I think I know the answer although you may pretend to be unsure. But time will tell.


We're on eve of joining FW with our newly established corporation supporting and teaching some newbies we brought from other games within our community. We were making some research to make a better decision. Of course we won't make a decision only following forum comments, however if we find out these comments hit the reality, it would be pretty unwise to pick Amarr Faction.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#274 - 2012-11-06 14:38:05 UTC
Stalking Mantis wrote:
Even back in my days in tier one Amarr people were complaining about how there lp was worthless and I was selling navy omens at around 120 mil isk a pop and navy slicers for around 35 mil isk a pop (supply and demand) so what exactly people are complaining about when they refuse to partake in changing their situation is beyond me.



Do you mean you were spending 40k lp for a slicer and 180k lp for a nomen?



Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#275 - 2012-11-06 14:49:56 UTC
Kazim Scumling wrote:
Cearain wrote:
If i see someone on the market selling the same thing for less I will pay less. As people join fw they will see one side pays less and one pays more for the same thing. Are they going to choose less pay or more pay? I think I know the answer although you may pretend to be unsure. But time will tell.


We're on eve of joining FW with our newly established corporation supporting and teaching some newbies we brought from other games within our community. We were making some research to make a better decision. Of course we won't make a decision only following forum comments, however if we find out these comments hit the reality, it would be pretty unwise to pick Amarr Faction.



Depends which way you look at it. Purely from an isk perspective its not as clear cut as people make out.

Yes, you earn less lp per effort in amarr, however amarr navy ship prices are rocketing due to lower supply.

In gallente, at tier 4 we earn a large amount of lp per effort but our historically high priced navy ships are hovering a little above their lowest price ever due to market saturation.

When it comes down to it, any faction in tier 2 or better is making very good isk relative to most other areas in eve.
Abyssum Invocat
Yet Another Tax Haven
#276 - 2012-11-06 15:24:24 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Abyssum Invocat wrote:
Cearain wrote:




Both(pvp and plexing) have some simillarity to gambling, both pay one side 2.5xs what it pays the other side. Very few casino games are that slanted because, no one would play.

It's clearly dumb from an economic perspective to choose to fight for the losing side.

Some people argue that pvp is better when you are outshipped and outnumbered. That hasn't been my experience, but lets see how it goes.

But that's wrong, because every time you complete a plex you are making money regardless. It is not some pull of a slot machine where you stand to lose your money by completing a plex. .


I guess your assumption is there won't be any pvp that might make completing the plex uncertain.
Abyssum Invocat wrote:

Do you refuse to buy anything from the market because some guy bought the item for cheaper and you don't want him to make anything? If you want a single player game in which to practice hardcore isolationism then there are many out there you would enjoy.

You don't like making less money? That's a separate issue and the solution is simple, go take some systems and improve your situation yourself.



If i see someone on the market selling the same thing for less I will pay less. As people join fw they will see one side pays less and one pays more for the same thing. Are they going to choose less pay or more pay? I think I know the answer although you may pretend to be unsure. But time will tell.

The risk of PvP itself was not part of your original argument, you are moving the goal posts. If you take a look, you'll notice that I structured my wording so as to preclude such an attempt.

Eve is a laissez-faire game, of course the winners have an advantage. This advantage is necessary as motivation for the struggle and integral for the fabric of the game. The only thing we should be discussing is if the Amarr can make enough money to reasonably stay in ships, all other points are nebulous. This is not socialism, if you want something, you take it. This is the core of Eve, it always has been. Do you think if NCdot cried on the forums enough that CCP would give them techmoons because it is unfair how many the Goons have? Of course not. Eve is not fair, it never has been and never should be.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#277 - 2012-11-06 15:33:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Abyssum Invocat wrote:
Cearain wrote:


If i see someone on the market selling the same thing for less I will pay less. As people join fw they will see one side pays less and one pays more for the same thing. Are they going to choose less pay or more pay? I think I know the answer although you may pretend to be unsure. But time will tell.

The risk of PvP itself was not part of your original argument, you are moving the goal posts. If you take a look, you'll notice that I structured my wording so as to preclude such an attempt.


Right you looked at plexing overly narrowly. As if everytime you choose to plex you are guaranteed to close it. But that is not the case.


Abyssum Invocat wrote:

Eve is a laissez-faire game, of course the winners have an advantage. This advantage is necessary as motivation for the struggle and integral for the fabric of the game. The only thing we should be discussing is if the Amarr can make enough money to reasonably stay in ships, all other points are nebulous. This is not socialism, if you want something, you take it. This is the core of Eve, it always has been. Do you think if NCdot cried on the forums enough that CCP would give them techmoons because it is unfair how many the Goons have? Of course not. Eve is not fair, it never has been and never should be.


There is a difference between npc factions in fw and player corps and alliances in null sec. Anyone can just join the winning side in faction war.

The inferno tier system gave motivation to fight, had some balance, and could have been improved on. Instead they just took a hamfisted approach and gave the winner every economic advantage (becasue they appearantly felt the winner was being punished for winning) and deliberatley removed what little balance there was.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Abyssum Invocat
Yet Another Tax Haven
#278 - 2012-11-06 15:38:59 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Abyssum Invocat wrote:
Cearain wrote:


If i see someone on the market selling the same thing for less I will pay less. As people join fw they will see one side pays less and one pays more for the same thing. Are they going to choose less pay or more pay? I think I know the answer although you may pretend to be unsure. But time will tell.

The risk of PvP itself was not part of your original argument, you are moving the goal posts. If you take a look, you'll notice that I structured my wording so as to preclude such an attempt.

Cearain wrote:

Right you looked at plexing overly narrowly. As if everytime you choose to plex you are guaranteed to close it. But that is not the case. .



Abyssum Invocat wrote:

Eve is a laissez-faire game, of course the winners have an advantage. This advantage is necessary as motivation for the struggle and integral for the fabric of the game. The only thing we should be discussing is if the Amarr can make enough money to reasonably stay in ships, all other points are nebulous. This is not socialism, if you want something, you take it. This is the core of Eve, it always has been. Do you think if NCdot cried on the forums enough that CCP would give them techmoons because it is unfair how many the Goons have? Of course not. Eve is not fair, it never has been and never should be.


There is a difference between npc factions in fw and player corps and alliances in null sec. Anyone can just join the winning side in faction war.

The inferno tier system gave motivation to fight, had some balance, and could have been improved on. Instead they just took a hamfisted approach and gave the winner every economic advantage (becasue they appearantly felt the winner was being punished for winning) and deliberatley removed what little balance there was.

No, I specifically used the term "completing a plex."

The Inferno tier system was completely ****** in the ass by farmers that were unduly influencing warzone control, it was a good system that was implemented in a terrifically broken way.

Just sum it up briefly for us all in no uncertain terms, what do you want done to FW?
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#279 - 2012-11-06 16:05:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Kazim Scumling wrote:
Cearain wrote:
If i see someone on the market selling the same thing for less I will pay less. As people join fw they will see one side pays less and one pays more for the same thing. Are they going to choose less pay or more pay? I think I know the answer although you may pretend to be unsure. But time will tell.


We're on eve of joining FW with our newly established corporation supporting and teaching some newbies we brought from other games within our community. We were making some research to make a better decision. Of course we won't make a decision only following forum comments, however if we find out these comments hit the reality, it would be pretty unwise to pick Amarr Faction.



Depends which way you look at it. Purely from an isk perspective its not as clear cut as people make out.

Yes, you earn less lp per effort in amarr, however amarr navy ship prices are rocketing due to lower supply.

In gallente, at tier 4 we earn a large amount of lp per effort but our historically high priced navy ships are hovering a little above their lowest price ever due to market saturation.

When it comes down to it, any faction in tier 2 or better is making very good isk relative to most other areas in eve.


Kazim do your research.

The latest faction war system is deliberately set up to give all the economic benefits to the winner. Hans who pushed it through to ccp said as much.

Here is some analysis earlier in the thread.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2138310#post2138310

In sum the militias that are at tier 4 are making 2.5xs the lp of the ones at tier 2. The vast majority of the worthwhile items in the lp store are shared by both militias. The unique fw items like amarr plates are pretty much worthless. (so don't be mislead if you see contracts with them going for lots of isk - they aren't even worth trying to sell as you will just get expired contract after expired contract)

Since we know the losing faction will effectively make less than half off the shared items the losing factions are trying to spend all of their lp on the only unique items that sell - ships.
Jita sell prices right now:

Tier 2 factions amarr and caldari frigates each cost 10klp:
slicers 16.5
hookbill 11 mill

Tier four factions minmatar and gallente frigates 10klp:
comets 17 mill
firetails 13 mill


As you can see the factions tier 2 ships are going for far less than 2.5 xs as much as the faction ships that have tier 4. Plus the differential is artificially high right now because minmatar had several tier 5 cashouts right before the patch were they could buy their ships for 1/4 the lp! As those get sold off you will see even closer parity between the amarr and minmatar.

Bottom line is the market does not even come close to covering the large advantage you get for choosing to fly for the winning side.

If you prefer more money over less money your choice is clear.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#280 - 2012-11-06 17:17:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Abyssum Invocat wrote:


The Inferno tier system was completely ****** in the ass by farmers that were unduly influencing warzone control, it was a good system that was implemented in a terrifically broken way.

Just sum it up briefly for us all in no uncertain terms, what do you want done to FW?


Believe it or not we both agree. It was mainly the farmers and the mechanics that encouraged people farming plexes in gunless frigates that made inferno so bad and kept the amarr from being able to keep economic parity.

I would like the the original inferno tier system but toned down. Instead of tier 5 being 75% discount maybe make it a 60% discount. But keep it so there is no lp for d-plexing and keep it where there is no reason to join a side that just did a tier 5 cashout because you will have just missed the boat.

The cashouts gave goals instead of this forever grind we have now. Perhaps the time between cashouts should be longer or shorter. I really don't care, but that could easilly be accomplished by changing the vp per plex. (yes i said vp not lp. vp is how much a system is contested per plex)

As for the other changes I would still recomend that they make plexing a pvp game as per my signature. But if they must have npcs I like what hans has proposed and what ccp is doing. Must kill them all etc. Another key is to start notifying us when plexes are attacked and a form of timer rollback. But these notifications and timer rollbacks will not be good if the war is lopsided. And unfortunately because they chose a lopsided financial system that sort of ruins the whole thing.

To the extent people say that there is no advantage to winning under the old system if everyone can hit tier five, I would say that if your side currently has over 50% of the systems you get full lp for pvp and a 50% bonus (over pre inferno rates) to the lp you get for missions. If your side has under 50% of the systems then you get half the lp for pvp and only preinferno pay for missions.

Plus the side that hold the majority of systems over a 12 month period would get some other perk. Perhaps an economic one like an additional item in the lp store, or just improve a unique item (make amarr plates or eg, minmatar shield worth buying) Or it could be a non-economic one like a statue in the fw system that was held by the militia long enough. The statue could be of the person who got the most kills or the most vp or the ceo or the corp with the most kills or vp or it could be a statue of all 4 or whatever. Other sorts of swag for winning could be an increase in your factions corporations in the war zone. So if minmatar win some of the carthum stations might become boundless stations. There are plenty of options.

The idea is that there would be very short term goals like capture this plex. Medium term goals like achieve a tier 5 cashout, and long term goals like memoralize our achievments permantently in the game through continued dominance. Because these goals all have different timelines people would always have more to fight for. The game would be economically balanced as long as everyside could achieve tier 5 cashouts.

If they did this and one side still couldn't hit a tier 5 cashout then they could do some tweaks like reduce the vp for d-plexing. Or they could say you can't start plexing a system for a set time after it flips, or if you do, you don't get as much vp. Which option would depend on the specific reason why a certain faction was unable to achieve any tier 5 cashouts.

FW doesn't need to be economically lopsided to make it meaningful.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815