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So, by your statements, is it safe to assume that you are pushing for us to fill our new 'simpler' fleet hanger with containers in order to maintain a semblance of organization that we had before you decided that hanger divisions were evil?

Why can we not have atleast a 'personal' hanger and a 'fleet' and 'corp' versions as well. What is wrong with us being allowed to have private hangers without the need to clutter the hold up with password'ed containers?

Why are you ignoring the player base on this?

I read through most of this thread - If I understand correctly - Fleet hangars are now SCANNABLE.

My thoughts on this - LAME. I really don't have nice words for you on this CCP.

My rationale so you all don't flame me:

1) First - Let me say that I like the idea that an ORCA could be popped and drop contents for gankers. That is fine if stuff drops as it should. To me it was always immersion breaking that the ORCA didn't drop corp hangar contents.

but

2) I think it is the WORST decision CCP devs have made in months to make it just scannable. It is immersion breaking. Why "fix" something that wasn't broke??! Why do it? SERIOUSLY - WHAT IS YOUR REASON? Lack of coding time? Don't know how to code it? Why CAN'T their be MORE OPTIONS in EVE instead of one size fits all? Why can't we have one bay on certain ships that ISN'T scannable? OR -

AND HERE IS A NOVEL IDEA... Make it to where you can scan it but you have to have a new module (one that requires HACKING and Survey skills trained to level 5) A module that allows you to scan audit containers or fleet hangars. Wouldn't that be more immersive? Wouldn't that be less of a change for the sake of NO CHANGE.

People LIKE THE BALANCE now that is Corp hangars not being scannable. Why are we buffing suicide ganks here. Since when is Hi-sec not hi-sec and empire?

I must be missing something herp-derp style that Concorde is growing some balls or crime watch will fix ganks more because as it stands now I am just not seeing how this change will HELP EVE and the the EVE Economy.

PLEASE ENLIGHTEN ME.

It's not that hard to understand nor is it down to ebil devs ignoring or deliberately messing with the player base.

Anyone who's had any experience of writing and maintaining code over several years will know that stuff you (or more likely someone else who worked on it) wrote several years ago will come back and bite you in uncomfortable places.

And it's quite obvious from the dev comments that parts like the varying size divisions (and other non-fixed containers) depends on code that aren't exactly optimal (I think phrases like "making baby Jesus cry" and "spawns of Cthulhu" are related indications of coder disgust).

Dealing with that kind of code only leaves you with 2 main options:
1: Restart all of it and this time do it right (at least right as you see it now).

2: Run around like a lemming on drugs trying to patch up the mess as you go.

Neither are really possible if the code is live and used by several persons on a daily basis.

So what our icelandic hampster trainers are doing is:
1: Rewriting stuff in the backend , making us players complain that they haven't done anything, and/or breaking stuff that has been there for ages.

2: Patching up stuff and doing minor patching up on the surface, making us players complain that they're cheating and not really giving us anything new.

I'm all for yelling, loudly, at the Devs for making (in my not very humble mind) stoopid decisions but no matter how hard I try, I fail to find them either outright ebil nor in some part of the player base's pocket.

tl:dr
I want my divisions back, but I sure as hell don't want to code it.

OK, take a Carrier as an example. It has a 10,000 m3 Corp Hangar Array and a 1,000,000 Ship Maintenance Array.

The 10,000 m3 Corp Hangar currently has 7 divisions which expand/contract depending on what is in them. The total size of them all can't be bigger than 10,000 m3 but you don't need any containers to achieve whatever level of organization you want. You can't grant access to these corp hangar segments to non-corp members, but the corp roles DO apply to corp members so you can effectively filter who can get to the goodies in your ship by putting more expensive ones in (for example) the 'Director Only' hangar.

What you propose to replace this great, fully functional system with is one hangar with no divisions. You are going to give me cans to put in there so I can organize my stuff and don't understand why I'm upset with this change. The issue we, the players, have is 3-fold. First of all, you're giving me a new item I don't want to have to carry around. It'll never be full and always takes up more space than I want it to, I also have to get them out to 0.0 space where I live, or someone has to make them there, both of which are seriously inconvenient. Second, I can't allow access by anyone else to the cans in my hangar, the entire thing is either ON / OFF to my entire fleet, providing zero security. Third, how am I supposed to carry these cans around with me when deploying? I can refit my carrier for multiple roles in minutes, but if half my inventory is full of cans used to duplicate the functionality I already had, how do I fit my 2 extra Capital sized modules in there at 4k m3 each?

You're essentially taking the Corp Hangar I have now, which I like, and replacing it with the ON / OFF functionality of the current Ship Maintenance Array, which NO ONE ANYWHERE is happy with. IE: it's either ON or OFF any anyone in the fleet can steal all your stuff.

I realize it's more WORK for you to keep the current functionality that we have now, but if you don't want to put in that work (which, not to be a **** about it, is kind of your entire job), why mess with it at all? Why change something that isn't broken and players are not complaining about?

No, you just didn't understand my post.

The cans are 'secure' in that no one but me (the pilot) can get into them. But if I put anything out in the Fleet Hangar (not in a can) anyone in the fleet can have it. The hangar itself is either ON or OFF with no granularity, so all of my stuff is either safe in a can, safe when the Fleet Hangar is turned OFF or free for everyone to grab.

You're also completely ignoring the annoyance the containers themselves, which are miserable excuses for hangar divisions. The auto-adjusting size of hangar divisions is amazing and is one of the best points of owning a carrier/orca/rorqual/SC/Titan. Hell half the reason I still want a Titan, even though they've been nerfed into the ground, is the giant corp hangar to store all my goodies in.

What a surprise! Someone who doesn't have a capital is perfectly fine with this change and is telling us it's fine.

As for your question, no. Corp hangars in ships allow the pilot of the vessel full access to each hangar, and allow people with appropriate roles access to whatever hangar they would normally be able to access in a station when the ship is in reconfig mode. Pilots have a "master key" to all hangars in their own ships.

I completely agree with BlitZ Kotare - he has it spot on.

@ Cid -- you blatantly say you don't understand the permissions on Capital Cargoholds, yet you pretend to understand how it's "good" to remove the divisions. Go crawl back into your hole until you know what you're talking about because it's obvious you do not.

To answer your question though, yes, a pilot can access any division within their own ship - regardless of Corp roles.


In regards to the space issue (you call it "partitioned magic bag of holding"). Under the current system, I do not have enough space in my carrier's cargohold for any spare capital mods @ 4k each for refits. Instead, I can put them in the Corp Hangars - and what's left over for space goes to everyone else that is allowed access to the Corp Hangar.

Under the new system, I will need to partition my "fleet hangar" with fixed sized containers - effectively eliminating one of two things:
a) I no longer have enough space to carry extra cap mods for refits
b) I no longer have secured (container) space to carry general Fleet equipment because my container for my capital refitting mods is 10k in size.

The current system might be 'broken' due to bad programming, but it works -- and doesn't require the paying player base to go though additional suffering just to do simple things.

A better solution would be to increase and swap the sizes of both the Cargohold with the Corporate Hangars. Secured space for the pilot with a nominal amount of Fleet space.

Ever heard the term if its not broken dont fix it have you seen how much crap a carrier carts around do you even use a carrier, or is it another one of these unified inventory fixes where the old one worked fine but we just had to have a change.

Ok CCP you want my feedback on modules/ideas/"features"?
Firstly tell me why this was such a pressing issue and far eclipsed the resources which can be used to help other balancing (which you're rushing btw)

Second tell me how to tell you more directly that I DO NOT support the changes to Divisions.
Im sorry but this seems like a mess. Either dedicate the resources or leave it as is. Period. And listen to the player base so you stop ending up with crap like the adaptive armor abomination, or the ASB which players tried to warn you about.

Scans I dont care (though id like to have no scans but drops like normal, a lottery of sorts)

I do not like the change to the unscannable parts of the orca at all. This was all I used it for.

I dont carry an awful lot in my orca, around two billion in a few logistics ship, and ammo, drones and spare mods and all this change will do is make me waste more time by forcing me to make double trips to the next incursion site to avoid making myself a target.

It will not give gankers better targets as I will still not carry above any magic number in ehp to isk ratio.