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Dec Shield Bait Traps
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Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts.
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#21 - 2012-11-05 05:15:52 UTC
Bob Petit wrote:
Tah'ris Khlador wrote:
Bob Petit wrote:
edit: You've pretty much reached the limit of your experiment. The only people who are going to get trapped are those that are attached to their corp names. Therefore, no one will dec with a corp whose name they value. Therefore, your strategy becomes stalled. Ironically, you've proven that, despite the flawed mechanic, corporations can easily avoid this problem. In effect, you've solved the problem through education. It now seems unlikely that your experiment will bear the fruit you hope it does.


I think you misjudge the value people place on their corporate / alliance KBs. Some space fairing people put a lot of their interseller kredits into making those look good. Plus domain space and all that.

Which is precisely why every single alliance and corp with something at stake isn't going to war dec under that corp name. If necessary they'll create an alt corp and conduct the war through that entity. Even assuming they bother with it, because the only application is in high sec. There's no need to do it with the main corp. You'll still get the KMs no matter what. But there won't be any KMs, because war in high sec is pointless unless the defender is a willing participant.


If it's pointless because the defenders have to play for it to even bother, why would people care to create separate war deccing entities in this situation? As a member of an alliance that participates in a fair number of high sec wars, the only part about dec shield that is irritating is the massive number of notifications and setting up standings.

While I'm sure certain groups will go through the trouble of "create 8 war deccing corps and scrap them as they get dec shielded," I think more of them will just keep trucking along because they simply dgaf.

Member of the Pink Pony Killboard Padding Alliance
Bob Petit
Doomheim
#22 - 2012-11-05 05:32:29 UTC
Tah'ris Khlador wrote:
If it's pointless because the defenders have to play for it to even bother, why would people care to create separate war deccing entities in this situation? As a member of an alliance that participates in a fair number of high sec wars, the only part about dec shield that is irritating is the massive number of notifications and setting up standings.

I mean, it's pointless to wardec anyone unless the person you're wardeccing is either: a willing participant; someone who, for whatever reason, can't give up his corp name; someone who, for whatever reason, is unwilling to drop corp; someone who has a POS or other asset that can't be taken down before the war's start. Anyone who does wardec, for whatever reason, has an easy out if they get caught up in Dec Shield. It's pointless in both directions.

Tah'ris Khlador wrote:
While I'm sure certain groups will go through the trouble of "create 8 war deccing corps and scrap them as they get dec shielded," I think more of them will just keep trucking along because they simply dgaf.

The last part sounds like you're following up on something, but I don't know what it is. The point of creating multiple dec corps is to avoid any sort of "trap." I was responding to the initial post and demonstrating that it wasn't really a trap at all, unless you meet the previously mentioned conditions. If you get caught up in this and you don't give a ****, well, great. I don't know where you're going with that, but it sure sounds like you're saying what I'm saying, this has become pointless.

As long as everyone avoids deccing (no matter how pointless it is to do so) other corps with a corp they value, there's no need to worry about getting trapped. If you dec and don't give a ****, there's no need to worry about getting trapped. If you're a corp getting decced and you don't want to be, you have the exact same options, unless you meet those same previously defined conditions.

Now that I've thought about it a little more, I suspect this is the core of their reasoning on the subject and why they haven't stepped in. In high sec, if you don't want to fight, you don't have to unless someone suicides you. Everywhere else, it doesn't matter; you don't need a dec. It appears they snuck a voluntary PvP flag into high sec.
Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts.
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#23 - 2012-11-05 05:51:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Tah'ris Khlador
Essentially you're saying they can avoid the "trap" if they really wanted to, and thus it's pointless and I'm saying most of the real war dec corps won't avoid it because they won't care, and it's practically pointless. Not quite two sides of the same coin but essentially the same point.

My follow up was a broad challenge to the idea that most groups would create mini deccing entities because I misunderstood it as a reference not of "this is what they can do" but rather as "this is what everyone will do."

And, somehow, an actual discussion takes place in GD.

Member of the Pink Pony Killboard Padding Alliance
usrevenge
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2012-11-05 05:53:18 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
EVIL SQUISHY wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
EVIL SQUISHY wrote:
hows about....people stop blueing the hell out of null sec and fight each other?

Why are complex moves this needed just to get wars going???

Ridiculous.


No one in nullsec gives a rat's ass about Dec Shield and highsec wardecs. Stop assuming everything has to do with 0.0, FFS.


From what I hear, things that go on in Highsec are exactly what nullers worry about...


NO ONE WILL ******* WARDEC TO KILL ANYTHING IN NULL.

EVER.

Were you dropped on your head? There is literally no reason to besides warning people "omg were gonna like totally attack you" and get them to laugh at you while accomplishing nothing but dumping ISK.

If you want to shoot a tower in low or null, you go to the tower and start shooting. If you want to steal modules from an offline tower, you just pick them up. That's it. The OP is very freaking obviously talking about highsec tower bait.


I fixed your post, cause I thought it would help the bad people.
OT Smithers
A Farewell To Kings...
Dock Workers
#25 - 2012-11-05 06:58:38 UTC
Bob Petit wrote:
Tah'ris Khlador wrote:
Bob Petit wrote:
edit: You've pretty much reached the limit of your experiment. The only people who are going to get trapped are those that are attached to their corp names. Therefore, no one will dec with a corp whose name they value. Therefore, your strategy becomes stalled. Ironically, you've proven that, despite the flawed mechanic, corporations can easily avoid this problem. In effect, you've solved the problem through education. It now seems unlikely that your experiment will bear the fruit you hope it does.


I think you misjudge the value people place on their corporate / alliance KBs. Some space fairing people put a lot of their interseller kredits into making those look good. Plus domain space and all that.

Which is precisely why every single alliance and corp with something at stake isn't going to war dec under that corp name. If necessary they'll create an alt corp and conduct the war through that entity. Even assuming they bother with it, because the only application is in high sec. There's no need to do it with the main corp. You'll still get the KMs no matter what. But there won't be any KMs, because war in high sec is pointless unless the defender is a willing participant.


But they won't go on that parent corporation's killboard. And for some folks that's a big deal.

In any case, your work-around is just that, and the fact that it is now necessary to create a special secondary corporation to dec someone shows how broken the system actually is.
Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2012-11-05 09:02:06 UTC
Alliances and Organizations CenterArrow

Don't be scared, because being afk is not a crime.
Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts.
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#27 - 2012-11-05 13:45:37 UTC
Rordan D'Kherr wrote:
Alliances and Organizations CenterArrow


All you read was "looking for new wars" didn't you? You clearly didn't read the OP and actually have no idea what the topic is about.

Member of the Pink Pony Killboard Padding Alliance
Bob Petit
Doomheim
#28 - 2012-11-05 15:49:26 UTC
OT Smithers wrote:
But they won't go on that parent corporation's killboard. And for some folks that's a big deal.

In any case, your work-around is just that, and the fact that it is now necessary to create a special secondary corporation to dec someone shows how broken the system actually is.

Anyone who values "branded" killboard results over tactical flexibility is an idiot.
Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts.
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#29 - 2012-11-05 15:51:57 UTC
Bob Petit wrote:
OT Smithers wrote:
But they won't go on that parent corporation's killboard. And for some folks that's a big deal.

In any case, your work-around is just that, and the fact that it is now necessary to create a special secondary corporation to dec someone shows how broken the system actually is.

Anyone who values "branded" killboard results over tactical flexibility is an idiot.


Tell that to all the mercs who use their KB as a reference tool.

Member of the Pink Pony Killboard Padding Alliance
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#30 - 2012-11-05 16:08:38 UTC
The Queen of Rens, Epic Space Cat, approves of this message.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#31 - 2012-11-05 17:12:47 UTC
The Zerg Overmind wrote:
We're always looking for new wars. Now with new war baiting strategies:

Step 1.) Build a 1 man corp that has tower anchoring rights in empire
Step 2.) Place a tower in a highly desired system
Step 3.) Anchor many labs and hardeners at the tower
Step 4.) Turn the tower offline
Step 5.) Wait to be wardecced by people wanting to steal the labs
Step 6.) Turn on force field and hardeners, unanchor and scoop labs, apply to join Dec Shield
Step 7.) Leave Dec Shield, wait for wars to cool off, repeat process
Step 8.) Tears


Time to anchor the tower. Cool

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Bob Petit
Doomheim
#32 - 2012-11-05 18:07:07 UTC
Tah'ris Khlador wrote:
Bob Petit wrote:
OT Smithers wrote:
But they won't go on that parent corporation's killboard. And for some folks that's a big deal.

In any case, your work-around is just that, and the fact that it is now necessary to create a special secondary corporation to dec someone shows how broken the system actually is.

Anyone who values "branded" killboard results over tactical flexibility is an idiot.


Tell that to all the mercs who use their KB as a reference tool.

Are they incapable of using individual pilot API keys and/or API keys for the alt corps to pull the numbers onto their boards?
Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2012-11-05 18:19:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Mortimer Civeri
The Zerg Overmind wrote:
We're always looking for new wars. Now with new war baiting strategies:

Step 1.) Build a 1 man corp that has tower anchoring rights in empire
Step 2.) Place a tower in a highly desired system
Step 3.) Anchor many labs and hardeners at the tower
Step 4.) Turn the tower offline
Step 5.) Wait to be wardecced by people wanting to steal the labs
Step 6.) Turn on force field and hardeners, unanchor and scoop labs, apply to join Dec Shield
Step 7.) Leave Dec Shield, wait for wars to cool off, repeat process
Step 8.) Wardec Corp removes money from wallet division, and CONCORD invalidates war for non payment in a week.
Step 9.) DecShield tears


FTFY

EDIT: Also you have to pay to keep the tower fueled, so you are losing money for a "joke" tower.

"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
NickyYo
modro
The Initiative.
#34 - 2012-11-05 18:31:12 UTC
The Zerg Overmind wrote:
We're always looking for new wars. Now with new war baiting strategies:

Step 1.) Build a 1 man corp that has tower anchoring rights in empire
Step 2.) Place a tower in a highly desired system
Step 3.) Anchor many labs and hardeners at the tower
Step 4.) Turn the tower offline
Step 5.) Wait to be wardecced by people wanting to steal the labs
Step 6.) Turn on force field and hardeners, unanchor and scoop labs, apply to join Dec Shield
Step 7.) Leave Dec Shield, wait for wars to cool off, repeat process
Step 8.) Tears


Expect my application shortley :)

..
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#35 - 2012-11-05 18:37:34 UTC
Tah'ris Khlador wrote:
Bob Petit wrote:
OT Smithers wrote:
But they won't go on that parent corporation's killboard. And for some folks that's a big deal.

In any case, your work-around is just that, and the fact that it is now necessary to create a special secondary corporation to dec someone shows how broken the system actually is.

Anyone who values "branded" killboard results over tactical flexibility is an idiot.


Tell that to all the mercs who use their KB as a reference tool.


I never could understand that.

I don't give a flying **** about a merc corps KB efficiency. I care about results.

So what if they lose ten ships to one as long as they do what I'm paying them for?

Mr Epeen Cool
The Zerg Overmind
Rule Reversal
#36 - 2012-11-05 18:44:41 UTC
Mortimer Civeri wrote:
The Zerg Overmind wrote:
We're always looking for new wars. Now with new war baiting strategies:

Step 1.) Build a 1 man corp that has tower anchoring rights in empire
Step 2.) Place a tower in a highly desired system
Step 3.) Anchor many labs and hardeners at the tower
Step 4.) Turn the tower offline
Step 5.) Wait to be wardecced by people wanting to steal the labs
Step 6.) Turn on force field and hardeners, unanchor and scoop labs, apply to join Dec Shield
Step 7.) Leave Dec Shield, wait for wars to cool off, repeat process
Step 8.) Wardec Corp removes money from wallet division, and CONCORD invalidates war for non payment in a week.
Step 9.) DecShield tears


FTFY

EDIT: Also you have to pay to keep the tower fueled, so you are losing money for a "joke" tower.

False. If a war is set to mutual by the defender then it costs no isk to the aggressor, therefore they cannot "not pay", and are therefore trapped forever.

The tower shields would only be up while wars were active against them (1 week periods of time) for each trap

Burn Highsec Griefers
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#37 - 2012-11-05 19:00:44 UTC
Tah'ris Khlador wrote:
Bob Petit wrote:
OT Smithers wrote:
But they won't go on that parent corporation's killboard. And for some folks that's a big deal.

In any case, your work-around is just that, and the fact that it is now necessary to create a special secondary corporation to dec someone shows how broken the system actually is.

Anyone who values "branded" killboard results over tactical flexibility is an idiot.


Tell that to all the mercs who use their KB as a reference tool.



He never said there weren't a lot of idiots. But I do, far too many and the sad part is they can't even figure out they're idiots, ever.

brb
Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts.
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#38 - 2012-11-05 19:08:11 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Tah'ris Khlador wrote:
Bob Petit wrote:
OT Smithers wrote:
But they won't go on that parent corporation's killboard. And for some folks that's a big deal.

In any case, your work-around is just that, and the fact that it is now necessary to create a special secondary corporation to dec someone shows how broken the system actually is.

Anyone who values "branded" killboard results over tactical flexibility is an idiot.


Tell that to all the mercs who use their KB as a reference tool.



He never said there weren't a lot of idiots. But I do, far too many and the sad part is they can't even figure out they're idiots, ever.


This is quickly approaching the "those who won't use any means necessary are idiots" argument which will stalemate in each group name calling. I think this aspect of the discussion is probably done.

Back on the Dec Shield Traps topic, create more bait traps people! I was considering how an alliance can pull all of the targets, both those in dec shield and those stuck at war with it. Would actually be rather simple I think.

Member of the Pink Pony Killboard Padding Alliance
Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2012-11-05 19:31:57 UTC
The Zerg Overmind wrote:
False. If a war is set to mutual by the defender then it costs no isk to the aggressor, therefore they cannot "not pay", and are therefore trapped forever.

Well thats just stupidly r3t@rded...oh wait, I forgot it's CCP. Smile

The Zerg Overmind wrote:
The tower shields would only be up while wars were active against them (1 week periods of time) for each trap

Yea, and the idiot that puts up the tower still has to pay for the fuel.

"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
Mr Vrix
Vrix Nation
#40 - 2012-11-05 19:40:25 UTC
Mortimer Civeri wrote:
The Zerg Overmind wrote:
False. If a war is set to mutual by the defender then it costs no isk to the aggressor, therefore they cannot "not pay", and are therefore trapped forever.

Well thats just stupidly r3t@rded...oh wait, I forgot it's CCP. Smile

The Zerg Overmind wrote:
The tower shields would only be up while wars were active against them (1 week periods of time) for each trap

Yea, and the idiot that puts up the tower still has to pay for the fuel.


actualy ya can yust unanchor the tower as soon ya recieve the wardec, only feul ya need is for onlining the tower to unanchor the labs
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