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Wreck and can 'ownership' in W-space
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Afuran
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-11-04 11:53:58 UTC
Sorry if this has been brought up before but here goes-

Why can't I tractor wrecks and cans that don't belong to me in W-space?

i understand that in HS and LS there is a CONCORD presence that 'oversees' capsuleer behavior and all that jazz, but in W-space, there is no law enforcement. There is no- 'that wreck belongs to X so you can't activate your tractor beam on it' business.

I don't care who's system it is or who killed the sleeper, there's nobody around to stop me from taking it. The rule just doesn't make sense in W-space.

Also if the rule stays in place with the new crimewatch, will I have an aggression timer for doing stuff in W-space?
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#2 - 2012-11-04 17:13:50 UTC
Ownership is ownership. The wrecks are 'flagged' to the person who killed them. So unless they release ownership, you can not tractor them. It would be too much coding to change it.

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Afuran
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-11-04 18:28:33 UTC
It just doesn't make any sense that I cant take it. Who's stopping me activating my modules on it?

And the ownership flag is ridiculous - they own their ship but I can still do whatever I want to them, the same should be true to whatever is in WH space.

Also, what's stopping my POS moon- mining in Wh space? Has there ever been an explanation why its disallowed?
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-11-04 18:37:35 UTC
Afuran wrote:
It just doesn't make any sense that I cant take it. Who's stopping me activating my modules on it?

And the ownership flag is ridiculous - they own their ship but I can still do whatever I want to them, the same should be true to whatever is in WH space.


The way the game is designed, deal with it.

Afuran wrote:
Also, what's stopping my POS moon- mining in Wh space? Has there ever been an explanation why its disallowed?


Yea, WH's are lucrative enough without moon goo.
Wolvun
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-11-04 21:03:16 UTC
0/10
Kalel Nimrott
Caldari Provisions
#6 - 2012-11-04 21:44:42 UTC
As I said it before in another thread. Wreck ownership in lawless space?
We are supossed to be beyond concord reach. They should be flagged as free for all.
I know is something about coding, but I dont think it should be that hard to check if the wreck is under empire jurisdictio

Bob Artis, you will be missed.

O7
Afuran
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-11-04 21:59:46 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Afuran wrote:
It just doesn't make any sense that I cant take it. Who's stopping me activating my modules on it?

And the ownership flag is ridiculous - they own their ship but I can still do whatever I want to them, the same should be true to whatever is in WH space.


The way the game is designed, deal with it.

Afuran wrote:
Also, what's stopping my POS moon- mining in Wh space? Has there ever been an explanation why its disallowed?


Yea, WH's are lucrative enough without moon goo.



Normally don't bite but got some time spare so here goes-

Game design changes- you should realise that if your not a complete idiot....

WHs being lucrative does not explain why a POS can mine a moon in one area and not another.

Please try to post something constructive because otherwise you just make yourself look bad.
Furtiva
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-11-04 22:05:12 UTC
Afuran wrote:


Normally don't bite but got some time spare so here goes-

Game design changes- you should realise that if your not a complete idiot....

WHs being lucrative does not explain why a POS can mine a moon in one area and not another.

Please try to post something constructive because otherwise you just make yourself look bad.


Post it where it belongs. Try here.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=270
nahjustwarpin
SUPER DUPER SPACE TRUCKS
#9 - 2012-11-04 23:23:58 UTC
let's just say that wreck owner initially doesn't want his wrecks to be beamed by others, so they are 'anchored'.
Kalel Nimrott
Caldari Provisions
#10 - 2012-11-04 23:42:56 UTC
Again with the wreck ownership in lawless space...

Bob Artis, you will be missed.

O7
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-11-04 23:51:11 UTC
Afuran wrote:


Normally don't bite but got some time spare so here goes-

Game design changes- you should realise that if your not a complete idiot....


Yea, let me clarify. It is the way wrecks are currently designed. Given CCP's design timelines, and the fact there has been nothing mentioned about changing wreck ownership, it is safe to surmise nothing about this game design will change in probably at least the next X years.

Hence, deal with it.

Afuran wrote:
WHs being lucrative does not explain why a POS can mine a moon in one area and not another.


Pretty sure it was explained via dev somewhere. I'm sure your google fu is sufficient.



Afuran wrote:
Please try to post something constructive because otherwise you just make yourself look bad.


No worse than your OP.
Utsen Dari
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2012-11-05 05:51:30 UTC
I put yellow wrecks in non-empire in the same category as dreadnoughts and carriers that inexplicably don't have small weapons, and so forth. These things are game balance for its own sake.

Can you imagine the hilarity of running about in a couple interceptors working together with a nano-fit MWD noctis and yoinking people's wrecks across gridwalls before they could do a damn thing about it, though?
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-11-05 08:01:30 UTC
rclick, abandon nearby wrecks. solved.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Nimrod vanHall
Van Mij Belastingvrij
#14 - 2012-11-05 08:58:51 UTC
Why the moons in W-space cant be mined? simple, and the same as why they cant be mined in Empire space:
Somone else already depleted the moon, in empire the states, in W-space the sleepers
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-11-05 14:34:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
I can't believe people would actually argue for this nonsensical mechanic. Anyone should be able to tractor wrecks in wormhole space, no matter if they belong to you or not. Why should my own ship stop me from doing this in lawless space? Straight

Maybe if it was possible to tractor wrecks yellow wrecks, we would see more marauders used in pvp.

Moon mining: it's pretty obvious why we can't do that in WH space...

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Dex DelaVenuto
Sky Templars
#16 - 2012-11-06 06:00:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Dex DelaVenuto
edited. nothing more for security reason of whole. Shocked
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-11-06 06:23:53 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
I can't believe people would actually argue for this nonsensical mechanic. Anyone should be able to tractor wrecks in wormhole space, no matter if they belong to you or not. Why should my own ship stop me from doing this in lawless space?


youre missing the point.
this is an absolute non issue either way, there are FAR better things for CCP to spend their time on.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-11-06 07:33:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
I wouldn't say it's exactly a non issue jack but yeah, it's not the most important thing for CCP to be thinking about. However, how hard can it be to change the system so that wreck ownership is dependent on a systems security rating?!

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Graff Spee
Lonercorp
#19 - 2012-11-06 08:22:55 UTC
It's a quick change, it makes things easier on people in 0.0 and WH space, and frankly, there's no reason not to do it. If they see this and have a spare few hours, I'm sure they would at least consider it. They should, in fact, consider it. Caution: this may flag people in empire and lowsec!
Bodega Cat
Expedition Spartica
#20 - 2012-11-06 22:01:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Bodega Cat
Graff Spee wrote:
It's a quick change, it makes things easier on people in 0.0 and WH space, and frankly, there's no reason not to do it. If they see this and have a spare few hours, I'm sure they would at least consider it. They should, in fact, consider it. Caution: this may flag people in empire and lowsec!


Speculating that it is a quick change is a mistake.

We have no idea how the code is written, and what systems it touches. Refactoring it in any way might have huge unforseen ramifications that make the risks "not quick at all" to assess, resolve, or even work around. For all we know, the guy who originally wrote that stuff might not even work at CCP anymore, which means you actually have to ramp someone up on it first before you can even think about refactoring or re-writing things to get them to work in a seemingly obvious way as an end user.

It's also a lot of QA time to then go through and test all the systems this effects in all kinds of ways to make sure nothing critical got missed (think Office Space, and mundane details)

Programming game code is often much more elegant (and hacked together) than the way it appears to the end user.

Many things like this, get weighted out with a Risk vs. Payoff number, and then prioritized accordingly so if the juice an't worth the squeeze, its probably never gonna happen.

But then again... If we all make enough noise about certain things, that priority value changes as well.
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