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[I-RED] Public Release: Dissolution of Cal-Matari Program

Author
Cheiftan
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#61 - 2012-10-27 10:48:40 UTC
Finally letting my legacy die rather than bastardize ever more from its original intention, i suppose i owe you a big thanks...

Word to the wise.

Minmatar don't need charity they need peace, your version of the Cal-Matar was far different from my own, i hoped for freedom through political pressures. not business contracts and money making schemes.
Korsavius
Revenent Defence Corperation
#62 - 2012-11-03 08:24:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Korsavius
Cheiftan wrote:
Finally letting my legacy die rather than bastardize ever more from its original intention, i suppose i owe you a big thanks...

Word to the wise.

Minmatar don't need charity they need peace, your version of the Cal-Matar was far different from my own, i hoped for freedom through political pressures. not business contracts and money making schemes.


My apologies for the late response, I've been terribly busy lately.

First, I'd like so say our versions were very much similar. I took your idea and expanded it. You say the program under my guidance did not value peace? We worked alongside a very small handful of Minmatar capsuleers to promote peace and security for a troubled Republic. I shall give credit where credit is due, and to that end, Ava Starfire has helped tremendously and was the primary ally of the program in the Republic.

Next, you claim the program under my guidance was designed as some "money making scheme" yet you provide no evidence of when I ever said it was. Let me make this clear, it was not. Every investment the program made came with no strings attached. Business contracts, such as security contracts, were designed to foster better economic relations between the Republic and the State, specifically the Ishukone corporation. We would be the bridge to allow commercial opportunities to exist between the two. How is this in any way detrimental to the people of the Republic? Both sides benefitted from this interaction.

Next time you accuse me of such malevolent acts, you better be damn sure to check your facts before you speak. Good day.

Cold Wind's Blade || Follow the I-RED Newsfeed & visit the I-RED GalNet site!

Cheiftan
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#63 - 2012-11-04 12:00:14 UTC
So you worked on building political pressure to ensure the well being and freedom of the people of new eden and more specifically the Minmatar?

Because to me this was about money from the start, as shown here.

Quite frankly i wont get dragged into a mud slinging contest, but when you're only public announcement is that of financial deals it makes one wonder what the real goal is, and really its not good, so reply with snarky comments like your little group does when someone disagrees with them. but lets not deny the past shall we?

anyways this will be my last transmission.

Have a good day Korsavius
Ava Starfire
Khushakor Clan
#64 - 2012-11-04 17:10:12 UTC
This thread should have been named "The Truth as I(RED) See It"

"There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception." -Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North"

Korsavius
Revenent Defence Corperation
#65 - 2012-11-04 19:37:50 UTC
Cheiftan wrote:
So you worked on building political pressure to ensure the well being and freedom of the people of new eden and more specifically the Minmatar?

Because to me this was about money from the start, as shown here.

Quite frankly i wont get dragged into a mud slinging contest, but when you're only public announcement is that of financial deals it makes one wonder what the real goal is, and really its not good, so reply with snarky comments like your little group does when someone disagrees with them. but lets not deny the past shall we?

anyways this will be my last transmission.

Have a good day Korsavius


In your link, notice the Taisho mentioned nothing of the Cal-Matari Program spearheading the initiative. Also notice of the contacts provided, I was not among them because I did not sponsor the investment on behalf of the program.

I see you have become quite paranoid over the months since your defection. You say you won't be dragged into any "mudslinging contest" yet your only posts in this thread have been just that. I implore you to seek a shaman and refocus your mind - and to, once again, check your facts before you speak.

Cold Wind's Blade || Follow the I-RED Newsfeed & visit the I-RED GalNet site!

Ava Starfire
Khushakor Clan
#66 - 2012-11-04 19:40:58 UTC
Korsavius wrote:
Cheiftan wrote:
So you worked on building political pressure to ensure the well being and freedom of the people of new eden and more specifically the Minmatar?

Because to me this was about money from the start, as shown here.

Quite frankly i wont get dragged into a mud slinging contest, but when you're only public announcement is that of financial deals it makes one wonder what the real goal is, and really its not good, so reply with snarky comments like your little group does when someone disagrees with them. but lets not deny the past shall we?

anyways this will be my last transmission.

Have a good day Korsavius


In your link, notice the Taisho mentioned nothing of the Cal-Matari Program spearheading the initiative. Also notice of the contacts provided, I was not among them because I did not sponsor the investment on behalf of the program.

I see you have become quite paranoid over the months since your defection. You say you won't be dragged into any "mudslinging contest" yet your only posts in this thread have been just that. I implore you to seek a shaman and refocus your mind - and to, once again, check your facts before you speak.


I know a Shaman. She says mudslinging begets a vicious cycle of further mudslinging.

"There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception." -Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North"

Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#67 - 2012-11-04 20:23:36 UTC
It's amazing how politics can tear apart friendships so violently.

Katrina Oniseki

Kuchu Ko
Doomheim
#68 - 2012-11-04 20:29:41 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
It's amazing how politics can tear apart friendships so violently.


At least it appears no blood has been shed, yet.
Cheiftan
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#69 - 2012-11-04 21:44:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Cheiftan
I suppose so miss Oniseki...

I welcome you all to prove me wrong, after our past i don't ever think wounds will heal, but i will say this i will offer my hand for the good of my people. Opportunity is there, show me how wrong i am and i will take back all i have said here.

But i do feel your task will be a hard one.

Mud Slinging is not my game, if i was i would be throwing petty insults at you all.
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#70 - 2012-11-04 21:50:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Katrina Oniseki
Cheiftan wrote:
I suppose so miss Oniseki...

I welcome you all to prove me wrong, after our past i don't ever think wounds will heal, but i will say this i will offer my hand for the good of my people. Opportunity is there, show me how wrong i am and i will take back all i have said here.

But i do feel your task will be a hard one.

Mud Slinging is not my game, if i was i would be throwing petty insults at you all.


I have no personal issue with you, nor any reason to feel I need to 'prove you wrong'.

Opinions are like capsules. We all have them, and most people want to keep theirs while shooting down others'.

Katrina Oniseki

Korsavius
Revenent Defence Corperation
#71 - 2012-11-04 21:56:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Korsavius
I have already stated evidence which would "prove you wrong," Chieftan. If you refuse to believe the facts then it is beyond me to remedy a blurred mind.

You couldn't be more wrong when you say politics tears apart friendships, Katrina. When Chieftan left I still considered him a friend of sorts. The problem came when he accused me of malevolent intentions without any proper evidence beyond his own feelings. Apparently he has long forgotten the man I am - and that is more damage than any political differences can inflict.

Cold Wind's Blade || Follow the I-RED Newsfeed & visit the I-RED GalNet site!

Cheiftan
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#72 - 2012-11-04 22:09:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Cheiftan
And that is where you are wrong, as a person i respect you, your leader i do not.

I believe i can be quoted in saying you have a big heart, and i still believe that, don't let it go to waste. My mistrust on the end of the Cal-Matar stems from this statment.

Quote:
Ishukone-Raata is looking for partners who understand the value of trade, who are willing to look past implications and further economical growth for both parties involved. How replaceable they are is up to them.. this is business we are not trying to court some girl.


So again prove me wrong, was this about more than trade and replacement?
Korsavius
Revenent Defence Corperation
#73 - 2012-11-05 01:09:09 UTC
I've already said it once and now I shall say it again..

That statement was made by the Taisho on behalf of I-RED, not the Cal-Matari Program. I-RED sought to establish trade relations with the Republic, true. However, this was not a measure sponsored by me or the Cal-Matari Program. The program operated as an independent entity from I-RED, so any business we conducted was not necessarily sponsored by I-RED. I was the sole representative for the program in I-RED, so unless an official statement came from me directly, then you can consider any statements regarding the affairs of the program false.

Take a read through this thread and you will find several posts which I outline the details of the program's affairs. If still you choose to deny the facts then I invite you to seek out a chat with Ava Starfire. Not only will she be able to vouch for the program's intentions but she will be able to show you the results of our combined effort.

Cold Wind's Blade || Follow the I-RED Newsfeed & visit the I-RED GalNet site!

Cheiftan
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#74 - 2012-11-05 03:10:17 UTC
You know, this is as easy as saying:

In my time as the leader of the Cal-Matar Union i have...

Simple questions require simple answers, what have you done to make me change my mind?
Maybe miss Starfire would like to share her version of things?

John Revenent
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#75 - 2012-11-05 07:35:09 UTC
Cheiftan wrote:
anyways this will be my last transmission.


I knew it was too good to be true.

Ishukone Loyalist - Private Contractor

"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned."

Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#76 - 2012-11-05 08:19:40 UTC
It's a shame that I-RED burnt so many bridges to set up this ill-fated initiative that was so obviously doomed from the start.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Ava Starfire
Khushakor Clan
#77 - 2012-11-05 13:40:11 UTC
My experiences with the Cal-Matari program (This most recent turn of events aside) were quite positive. IRED did, in fact, deliver numerous large shipments of aid, in the form of food, medical supplies, construction equipment, and even the assignment of specialist personell, to the Republic, which was distributed by Teraa Matar/Skadi's Call to projects throughout Heimatar and Metropolis. These shipments (freighter size, folks, this wasnt small quantities of stuff) assisted us in constructing several hospitals in Hek, along with three schools for providing primary education in the camps. They allowed us to offer medical services, food, and even children's toys to people displaced by the endless cycle of militia conflict. They even enabled us to construct a visitor's center in the Nyakii region of Mikramurka, Matar, as well as expand the hospital there in the city of White Point. Numerous smaller projects, from donations of food to food banks and children's homes, to construction of permanent apartment blocks, were only possible because of their assistance. Between their assistance and TRA/SKDI's initiatives, this had a substantial impact on the lives of millions of people. It was a good program, at least from my standpoint.

SKDI is now working more closely with the Sisters of EVE than we had before, due primarily to asking their assitance in prioritizing and distributing the aid sent us by IRED. Now, sadly, we have much less to work with; I am purchasing what I can, and donations do come from SOE, but the disappearance of the Cal-Matari aid has hurt relief efforts. I am sad that this went the way it did, because, from my standpoint, it was an excellent program.

Sadly, IRED did not recieve... whatever it was looking for "in return".

I believe it comes down to a difference of outlook. I thought it was an aid program, to build goodwill between the Republic and the State. IRED seems to have been hoping for a more business-partnership oriented outcome, if I am understanding this correctly? In any event, whatever response they wanted, they did not receive it.

Shaman Avlynka Surionen

"There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception." -Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North"

Aelisha
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#78 - 2012-11-05 15:13:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Aelisha
In her message above, pilot Starfire highlights something that to me, as an outside observer, rings with a saddening truth. The Caldari and Minmatar, in their martial pursuits, ability to excel in the face of adversity and differing but equally scarring trials in their development as 'late comers' to the space age in comparison to their first-contact neighbors, are 'birds-of-a-feather' of a sort. Alas, this is where the similarities end, and initial attempts to find further common ground appear to have bred a minority of fast friends and a majority of disgruntled, disenfranchised 'ideological refugees'.

Beyond the cursory, broad and frankly stereotypical views of our two cultures, the differences are astounding. Warriors are not Soldiers, though both have honour and integrity in the execution of their martial lifestyle. The passion the Matari show for their kin and tribes is heartening to see, but in no way analogous to the nationalism and concept of society-as-self that pervades the State. The decentralized government Shakor has implemented is only reminiscent of pre-Heth Megacorporate culture to those seeking to find such a parity, even then it is a strained assumption.

We are different peoples, attempts to force a common ground will never succeed, but we would not have known this but for the pioneering attempts of my friends and esteemed fellow citizens in IRED, and the forward thinking Matari that helped lead that attempt. There is no shame in failing, when one's recognition of failure highlights other potential avenues for success.

Simply put, we cannot go on overlooking our differences in an attempt to forge a bond. We must recognize, reconcile or negotiate around those differences. Personally, I feel the State has little to gain from the Republic, and the Republic little to gain from us at this juncture. My respect for the Matari people remains, but will never supersede my duty and pride in the State. Watch well the warriors of fire and ice, take heart in their tales of heroism, hearth and family; and hope that they in return will deign to have us share a choice tale or two about the clash of regimented arms, the fierce pride we hold in our home-corporations and the value of family in our own culture. But be ever mindful that we are both cultures as quick to clench a fist as to offer a hand in friendship and that we will ever be sadly estranged friends in rare cases, but not the cousins that those unable to explore the depth of our differences will attempt to assert we are.

CEO of the Achura-Waschi Exchange

Intaki Reborn

Independent Capsuleer

Cheiftan
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#79 - 2012-11-05 18:33:14 UTC
Quote:
My experiences with the Cal-Matari program (This most recent turn of events aside) were quite positive. IRED did, in fact, deliver numerous large shipments of aid, in the form of food, medical supplies, construction equipment, and even the assignment of specialist personell, to the Republic, which was distributed by Teraa Matar/Skadi's Call to projects throughout Heimatar and Metropolis. These shipments (freighter size, folks, this wasnt small quantities of stuff) assisted us in constructing several hospitals in Hek, along with three schools for providing primary education in the camps. They allowed us to offer medical services, food, and even children's toys to people displaced by the endless cycle of militia conflict. They even enabled us to construct a visitor's center in the Nyakii region of Mikramurka, Matar, as well as expand the hospital there in the city of White Point. Numerous smaller projects, from donations of food to food banks and children's homes, to construction of permanent apartment blocks, were only possible because of their assistance. Between their assistance and TRA/SKDI's initiatives, this had a substantial impact on the lives of millions of people. It was a good program, at least from my standpoint.

SKDI is now working more closely with the Sisters of EVE than we had before, due primarily to asking their assitance in prioritizing and distributing the aid sent us by IRED. Now, sadly, we have much less to work with; I am purchasing what I can, and donations do come from SOE, but the disappearance of the Cal-Matari aid has hurt relief efforts. I am sad that this went the way it did, because, from my standpoint, it was an excellent program.

Sadly, IRED did not recieve... whatever it was looking for "in return".

I believe it comes down to a difference of outlook. I thought it was an aid program, to build goodwill between the Republic and the State. IRED seems to have been hoping for a more business-partnership oriented outcome, if I am understanding this correctly? In any event, whatever response they wanted, they did not receive it.

Shaman Avlynka Surionen


Thank you, this is the sort of "Proof" that i needed to put my mind at ease, and for me to conclude that my former assumptions where indeed inaccurate.

I was wrong, and for that a apologize, i am a man of my word.

Thank you Korsavius for your hard work .

As for you John, you are as bad a leader as you are a politician, if you have something to say, you can stop being a coward and say it to my face, you reap what you sow, old man.
Korsavius
Revenent Defence Corperation
#80 - 2012-11-06 01:52:42 UTC
Apology accepted.

Though I'd say I did only half the work. Ava and the rest of our Minmatar associates did the other half.


Aelisha wrote:
In her message above, pilot Starfire highlights something that to me, as an outside observer, rings with a saddening truth. The Caldari and Minmatar, in their martial pursuits, ability to excel in the face of adversity and differing but equally scarring trials in their development as 'late comers' to the space age in comparison to their first-contact neighbors, are 'birds-of-a-feather' of a sort. Alas, this is where the similarities end, and initial attempts to find further common ground appear to have bred a minority of fast friends and a majority of disgruntled, disenfranchised 'ideological refugees'.

Beyond the cursory, broad and frankly stereotypical views of our two cultures, the differences are astounding. Warriors are not Soldiers, though both have honour and integrity in the execution of their martial lifestyle. The passion the Matari show for their kin and tribes is heartening to see, but in no way analogous to the nationalism and concept of society-as-self that pervades the State. The decentralized government Shakor has implemented is only reminiscent of pre-Heth Megacorporate culture to those seeking to find such a parity, even then it is a strained assumption.

We are different peoples, attempts to force a common ground will never succeed, but we would not have known this but for the pioneering attempts of my friends and esteemed fellow citizens in IRED, and the forward thinking Matari that helped lead that attempt. There is no shame in failing, when one's recognition of failure highlights other potential avenues for success.

Simply put, we cannot go on overlooking our differences in an attempt to forge a bond. We must recognize, reconcile or negotiate around those differences. Personally, I feel the State has little to gain from the Republic, and the Republic little to gain from us at this juncture. My respect for the Matari people remains, but will never supersede my duty and pride in the State. Watch well the warriors of fire and ice, take heart in their tales of heroism, hearth and family; and hope that they in return will deign to have us share a choice tale or two about the clash of regimented arms, the fierce pride we hold in our home-corporations and the value of family in our own culture. But be ever mindful that we are both cultures as quick to clench a fist as to offer a hand in friendship and that we will ever be sadly estranged friends in rare cases, but not the cousins that those unable to explore the depth of our differences will attempt to assert we are.


Well said, Aelisha-haani.

Cold Wind's Blade || Follow the I-RED Newsfeed & visit the I-RED GalNet site!