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New Mega hull is bleh

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m3talc0re X
The Motley Crew of Disorder
The Gorram Shiney Alliance
#101 - 2012-11-03 15:07:05 UTC  |  Edited by: m3talc0re X
Nagarythe Tinurandir wrote:
m3talc0re X wrote:
I liked the old shape better. Now it's just too damn obvious. Next they'll put legs and pincers on the damn thing.


you could team up with this Gustav Mannfred person who whines all day about all the old stuff that was renewed the last two years. maybe ccp starts up a old server with the release version of eve where you can bask in nostalgia....
every ship remake they made so far is a major improvement. one does not need to like the paradigm shift from lopsided to symmetrical ships. but the new destroyer is assymetrical again and i guess there just more subtle and elegant with the whole asymmetry buisiness.
you can't possibly deny that the increased level of detail of all the reworks is a good thing.

back on topic:
new mega hull is good and looks more alike like all the new gallente ships and their style.
i really like where the gallente style is going. less lsd-dream-cancer-biology and more fluid-but-distinct-awesomeness.


Watch out, we got a smart ass over here!

The new detail and all on the Scorpion is fine. It's the entire shape of the ship that is just too much. I would much prefer it had its old one wing shape back. Then it wouldn't look so damn obvious as an actual scorpion.

Here's a quick-ish chop I did to give the general idea of what I mean. Yes that come from the Raven :P
http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/8489/evescorpion.jpg

And I understand what you mean about the Mega hull missing it's "muscle". It's def not as curvy and organic as before. I'm gonna hate to see it go.
Solhild
Doomheim
#102 - 2012-11-03 21:18:08 UTC
I think the art devs got it right. I see the new mega hull as an improvement. The design elements that are classic 'mega' are still there but the whole design is more balanced. If anything, the previous design was OTT.
Katsami
Holy Amarrian Battlemonk
Crimson Inquisicion
#103 - 2012-11-04 12:12:05 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
CCP BunnyVirus wrote:
m3talc0re X wrote:
No complaints here if you want to get rid of the gun look to it. Just make sure to watch him and make sure he doesn't do something stupid, like putting some odd piece sticking out the side like the Omen. If he does, please proceed to hit him in the head, followed by a prompt "no". :P


will doTwistedRoll


Also feel free to remove the lobsided engine on the mega and machariel



Leave the Machariel go. Never touch it.
Krell Kroenen
The Devil's Shadow
#104 - 2012-11-04 16:24:58 UTC
Katsami wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
CCP BunnyVirus wrote:
m3talc0re X wrote:
No complaints here if you want to get rid of the gun look to it. Just make sure to watch him and make sure he doesn't do something stupid, like putting some odd piece sticking out the side like the Omen. If he does, please proceed to hit him in the head, followed by a prompt "no". :P


will doTwistedRoll


Also feel free to remove the lobsided engine on the mega and machariel



Leave the Machariel go. Never touch it.


It already got shrunk in the wash, whats a few more tweaks to it then? Cool
Krell Kroenen
The Devil's Shadow
#105 - 2012-11-04 16:53:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Krell Kroenen
m3talc0re X wrote:
Watch out, we got a smart ass over here!

The new detail and all on the Scorpion is fine. It's the entire shape of the ship that is just too much. I would much prefer it had its old one wing shape back. Then it wouldn't look so damn obvious as an actual scorpion.

Here's a quick-ish chop I did to give the general idea of what I mean. Yes that come from the Raven :P
http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/8489/evescorpion.jpg

And I understand what you mean about the Mega hull missing it's "muscle". It's def not as curvy and organic as before. I'm gonna hate to see it go.


The scorpion looking too much like it's name sake is far better than going and making a ship model unsymmetrical just for the sake of doing so. The advantages of symmerty would never be ignored by a ship designer just as it isn't by mother nature. An artist can take liberities from logic and common sense and whip up some lobsided random creation just as CCP's have done in the past. But that doesn't mean it's pleasing nor desireable. To the contrary they raise my hackles.

Now there are some ships that are good examples of blending form and fuction where in nonsymmetry is not only pleasing but believeable. The naga is a fine example, the main hull is blanced and is dotted with functional systems like bridge and sensors that don't look like they came out of a junk yard horror flim.

So while the new scorp could have came out looking a bit more industialist with less clear lines to it's name sake. It still looks worlds better than the oringal lump of random scrap that didn't even look like a ship that the scorp used to be.
m3talc0re X
The Motley Crew of Disorder
The Gorram Shiney Alliance
#106 - 2012-11-04 17:07:27 UTC
It wasn't asymmetrical just for the sake of being asymmetrical. The scorp is an ewar battleship. And it wouldn't be making the model unsymmetrical for the sake of doing so, it would be going back and fixing the ship to how it should've been in the first place.
Krell Kroenen
The Devil's Shadow
#107 - 2012-11-04 17:18:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Krell Kroenen
m3talc0re X wrote:
It wasn't asymmetrical just for the sake of being asymmetrical. The scorp is an ewar battleship. And it wouldn't be making the model unsymmetrical for the sake of doing so, it would be going back and fixing the ship to how it should've been in the first place.


So Space being 3D you want to put a random cluster of odd shaped probes on one side of the hull where in the rest of the ship's structure would block or interfer with it's function? In addition not even considering the effect of such uneven mass would add to the complexity of engine thrust and vector changes. You state on one hand you want it to look more like a ewar battleship but you don't want it to be a functional ewar battleship. Instead you want a weird piece of sci-fi art, that's fine but it's not what I would want.
Luc Chastot
#108 - 2012-11-04 18:43:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Luc Chastot
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
Luc Chastot wrote:


In fact, nature is symmetrica


Very very false


Oh, really? Do show me the tons of asymmetry in nature, please. They must, of course, greatly outnumber the symmetrical aspects.

Why don't we start with physics? We can talk about something as elementary as normal force.

We can then proceed to study a bit of chemistry, say, how rare it is for atoms to have more than the electrons needed to balance the protons out. Again, very elementary.

Finally, let's go with biology, which is more to our interest probably, and how we are undeniably surrounded by symmetry of different kinds.

So please, do show me how asymmetry greatly outweights symmetry in nature.

Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot.

m3talc0re X
The Motley Crew of Disorder
The Gorram Shiney Alliance
#109 - 2012-11-04 19:05:31 UTC
Krell Kroenen wrote:
m3talc0re X wrote:
It wasn't asymmetrical just for the sake of being asymmetrical. The scorp is an ewar battleship. And it wouldn't be making the model unsymmetrical for the sake of doing so, it would be going back and fixing the ship to how it should've been in the first place.


So Space being 3D you want to put a random cluster of odd shaped probes on one side of the hull where in the rest of the ship's structure would block or interfer with it's function? In addition not even considering the effect of such uneven mass would add to the complexity of engine thrust and vector changes. You state on one hand you want it to look more like a ewar battleship but you don't want it to be a functional ewar battleship. Instead you want a weird piece of sci-fi art, that's fine but it's not what I would want.


The ship's hull wouldn't interfere with the sensor cluster's functions... Also, you have NO idea what the mass of one side vs the other would be. The ship would be fine and would fly fine.
Krell Kroenen
The Devil's Shadow
#110 - 2012-11-04 20:00:39 UTC
m3talc0re X wrote:
Krell Kroenen wrote:
m3talc0re X wrote:
It wasn't asymmetrical just for the sake of being asymmetrical. The scorp is an ewar battleship. And it wouldn't be making the model unsymmetrical for the sake of doing so, it would be going back and fixing the ship to how it should've been in the first place.


So Space being 3D you want to put a random cluster of odd shaped probes on one side of the hull where in the rest of the ship's structure would block or interfer with it's function? In addition not even considering the effect of such uneven mass would add to the complexity of engine thrust and vector changes. You state on one hand you want it to look more like a ewar battleship but you don't want it to be a functional ewar battleship. Instead you want a weird piece of sci-fi art, that's fine but it's not what I would want.


The ship's hull wouldn't interfere with the sensor cluster's functions... Also, you have NO idea what the mass of one side vs the other would be. The ship would be fine and would fly fine.


Well then by your logic the shape of the ship doesn't mean anything. If Caldair wanted to build a ship to fit it's name sake they could. Since the hull of the ship doesn't interfer with any sensor cluster it can be imbedded in the wings where they would be protected. They wouldn't need to stick out or protrude from the hull to be targeted or damaged or look ghastly.

And since any part of the ship's mass or shape doesn't affect peformance or redundancy of systems then they can give it the pincher claws and legs if they wanted by your logic.

The problem is you came in spouting how the scorp should look like instead of stating how you would like it to look. Claiming that an ewar ship needed an offset bulbous set of antenna sticking out the side and then contradicting yourself by implying they could be stuck any where which includes the inside of a ship where they wouldn't be even seen because the make up of the hull and armor would not interfer in any way with their effectiveness.

So the current Scorp can be just as much of an ewar ship as the old lopsided lump was but look better while doing it.
Solhild
Doomheim
#111 - 2012-11-04 21:51:11 UTC
On a scale where brutal symmetry is 10 and an anisotropic collection of girders is 0, I'll put myself at about 8.

In my view, ships should be:

A) Believable in their mechanical layout
B) Mature in concept and execution (this seems to be the main issue people have with the Scorpion)
C) Practical - hardpoints not obstructed by ship structure etc.
D) Symmetrical, or aesthetically balanced asymmetry
E) Interesting/thought provoking (nice surface details etc.)
F) Quirky (fine line with this one)
G) Cool

I understand the arguments about ships having different density components so visual bulk doesn't need to be symmetrical around thrusters. Unfortunately, it just doesn't produce a ship that looks good to me.
m3talc0re X
The Motley Crew of Disorder
The Gorram Shiney Alliance
#112 - 2012-11-04 21:55:52 UTC  |  Edited by: m3talc0re X
The problem is, your noob ass come in here spouting off your mouth thinking you know anything about Caldari, which you obviously don't. You would know that Caldari prefer function over form. Hence the old Scorp model. By YOUR logic, we'd all be flying around in pink hello kitty Scorpions, but you would probably enjoy something like that, wouldn't you ;)

So please, continue with your failed logic of things you know nothing about. And by your OWN reasoning, having the electronics jutting outward away from the ship as much as possible, would be the best option. Interference and all, seeing as how the Scorpion is an ewar platform and is supposed to have superior electronics.

This logic is obviously above your mental capacity to understand. You obviously only care that the ship "looks pretty" to you. The old scorpion had its own character, now it's just mediocre and too obvious. By YOUR reasoning, all of our Caldari ships will look like their namesakes. Wouldn't that be just f'ing wonderful... This is all the troll food you're getting. I wish these forums had a block player option. I hate reading stupidity.

Edit: Ah ha! There is a block :D
m3talc0re X
The Motley Crew of Disorder
The Gorram Shiney Alliance
#113 - 2012-11-04 22:01:42 UTC
Solhild wrote:
On a scale where brutal symmetry is 10 and an anisotropic collection of girders is 0, I'll put myself at about 8.

In my view, ships should be:

A) Believable in their mechanical layout
B) Mature in concept and execution (this seems to be the main issue people have with the Scorpion)
C) Practical - hardpoints not obstructed by ship structure etc.
D) Symmetrical, or aesthetically balanced asymmetry
E) Interesting/thought provoking (nice surface details etc.)
F) Quirky (fine line with this one)
G) Cool

I understand the arguments about ships having different density components so visual bulk doesn't need to be symmetrical around thrusters. Unfortunately, it just doesn't produce a ship that looks good to me.


A) Yes
B) Yes; The current Scorpion is... Comical, at best...
C) Yeah, but within game mechanics, I don't think is 100% possible. Ships would need to turn and spin to keep a line of fire on targets.
D) Yes, some ships are seriously lacking this. Bad.
E) Yup
F) It's nice for ships to have some character to them, something that can grow on you. To me, the old scorp was like this. Hated it at first, but it grew on me. I was pretty disappointed when they changed it..
G) Can be open to opinion :P
Cajun Style
Shattered Planet
#114 - 2012-11-04 22:17:04 UTC
yeah... I'm just gonna unsubscribe from this thread...
Solhild
Doomheim
#115 - 2012-11-05 11:46:11 UTC
Cajun Style wrote:
yeah... I'm just gonna unsubscribe from this thread...


Have a 'like' from me.
Drenan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#116 - 2012-11-05 16:28:57 UTC
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
Vincent Gaines wrote:
Nova Fox wrote:
if they redesign the moa I want it closer to the style the new tier 2 dessie picks up.



It should keep it's somewhat-vertical appeal, however.


Ship needs a total 100% redesign. No resemblance of the previous hull should be kept, it's simply the worst looking ship I've ever come across in any game, ever.



Aint that the truth...the Moa design has been despised and mocked by the vast majority of pilots in Eve for as long as i have been in the game (2007).

CCP seem to take sadistic pleasure in stringing out it's replacement?...but guys, the joke is getting old.

And to those sad few pilots who jump into every ship design thread with their " but I LIKE the [insert choice of god awful mis-shaped turd of a ship model],".... some people also liked the AMC Pacer enough to part with RL money for it.
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#117 - 2012-11-05 17:55:06 UTC
Drenan wrote:

Aint that the truth...the Moa design has been despised and mocked by the vast majority of pilots in Eve for as long as i have been in the game (2007).

CCP seem to take sadistic pleasure in stringing out it's replacement?...but guys, the joke is getting old.

And to those sad few pilots who jump into every ship design thread with their " but I LIKE the [insert choice of god awful mis-shaped turd of a ship model],".... some people also liked the AMC Pacer enough to part with RL money for it.


How dare you mock the Mirth Mobile.
DJ P0N-3
Table Flippendeavors
#118 - 2012-11-05 20:11:00 UTC
Luc Chastot wrote:
We can then proceed to study a bit of chemistry, say, how rare it is for atoms to have more than the electrons needed to balance the protons out. Again, very elementary.


...you do know what ions are, right? They're not uncommon. Now, if you want to see the power of symmetry in action, have some symmetry operations instead.

Carry on, citizen.

(also the octet rule is a lie)
m3talc0re X
The Motley Crew of Disorder
The Gorram Shiney Alliance
#119 - 2012-11-05 21:31:27 UTC
Ya know, they should've redesigned the Moa along the same time they did the Mauler... But yeah, Moa is one of those ships that needs a complete overhaul rather than just updated.

This would be pretty bad ass: http://www.interstellarmarines.com/media/uploads/screenshots/ss0055_1280x720_zps_interstellarmarines_concept_vehicles_aivkittyhawk_001.jpg

I was looking at the Moa earlier and thinking about what could be done with it, and had an idea, but I'll have to chop it together :P
Commander Whitford
Feel Good Incorporated
#120 - 2012-11-05 22:07:43 UTC
I think the new Megathron looks more like a space ship and less like a toy, like it's made of metal and armour, as opposed to vacuum-formed plastic.

It's a welcome change of direction for the art team, as I was beginning to worry about the way the redesigns were going.

The Scorpion is my main concern. The ship is meant to be almost (if not over) a kilometre long, yet I see few armour plates. That's not really in keeping with the Caldari aesthetic, let alone the questions about how they manufactured it.

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/2010/Scorpion_2010_01.jpg - Scorpion

Again, it looks like it's just a toy ship, made of plastic. This is a problem when it comes to getting a sense of scale.
It doesn't feel like you're flying a giant battleship, in fact it looks more like a fighter craft.

Compare it to the Rokh with clear armour plates that make it look like a giant craft.

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2011/350/e/2/eve_wallpaper__golden_rokh_by_rixxjavix-d4j97el.jpg - Some pretty cool art with a Rokh. ^^

A simple texture change would fix this.




P.S: I can't wait to see the Moa's redesign.