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I am purely guessing here... but did they maybe nerf the torp range slightly planning on their TC / TE changes, and then did not put it back when they pulled the TC's?

25% reduction in explosion radius for Torpedoes would indeed be a very nice change. Is there another support skill that does not affect torps? I was under the impression Precision was the only one.

But they increased the base explosion radius on Rage Torps and Assaults by about that amount so it kinda cancels out the GMP skill bonus for the T2 short range ammo any way

*Shrugs*

Well the best answer from fozzie so far is this, which is for Fury but I think it covers their thoughts on all the T2 missile ammo I suppose

"Why was the range of Fury missiles reduced?
Our goals for T2 ammo is that each ammo type should have a specific and useful role to play, but that the T2 ammo should not completely obsolete the T1 and faction variants. For this proposal we have removed the ship penalties and increased the damage bonus for Fury missiles while reducing their range and increasing the penalties to precision. The goal for all T2 ammo is that it should be the ideal choice in some combat situations and not others, so that you should never be best served by only carrying one type of ammo. Switching to Fury missiles when hostiles are closer/larger and using T1/Faction missiles at longer ranges is normal and expected behavior.
That being said, the exact numbers are of course up for discussion and if the 50% range is something that would put Fury missiles out of whack with their intended purpose and with their relative balance we may change those numbers. Don't expect a return to 90% range though."

Also, the GMP skill does help T1 and faction torps at least :)

Just bumping to get some more attention and testing on this. This torp thing seems a little off.

Can someone post the range and damage numbers from Duality vs production on here? (im at work).

The range is a bid reduced. But its honeslty not that bad on the ships that are designed to fire them.

The problem Ive noticed is that there is little reason to fit torps. Their ability to other caldari shield tanked ships that have huge signature radii is fantastic. However, moving ships and anything smaller than stationary Megathron is going to laugh you off even with a target painter.

Before anyone flames me for saying you need to fit this and that in mid slots the Raven and many other Torp boats are fairly tight fits on duality right now. Doing some testing I've not managed to find a way to get more than 1 open midslot without crippling a Ravens tank, ruining the ewar ability of a scorp, and torps on a rokh are bleh to begin with.

Fitting an Afterburner with an ewar (like a Target painter, or Stasis web or tracking disruptor) is spotty at best, and fitting a point an ewar and and AFB is basically suicide.

This is all to say that without some changes to the torps it wont simply be the range that is the nerf.

Another problem is the Golem is pretty much locked into to Torps, since it lacks the rof bonus from the Raven hull. I'm just wondering what is gonna be the range with TE's/TC's? What else are they going to effect? Am I still going to need to use 3x TP's on my Golem (which is ******* sad to begin with). Torps are flawed and yet CCP continually want to nerf them.

This is only raw DPS numbers. All you need to do is look at the explosion radius of the new t2 ammo especially torp rages and you can see thougha a raven can pull 1000 dps out of rage torps this would only be possible on a ship with a signature radius larger than 774.

Assuming you use a normally fited raven that has a t2 target painter:

Abaddon sig = 639
Maelstrom (with 3 t2 shield rigs and a shield extender) = 711
Hyperion = 660
Rohk = 748

All this to say with a Tech 2 target painter rage torps cannot hit anything except for the larges shield rigged battleship(rohk with rigs) for full damage standing still. the Average DPS deliverd to a stationary battleship with T2 rage missiles is about 16% less damage that theoretical. And this is if the target is not moving.

Result rage torp missiles only start with a 21% damage base higher than normal torps, which have an explosion radius of 450 meaning they hit all battleships for full dmg before they are target painted. So, 21% more base damage but upwards of 16% damage loss due to signature radius penalties WITH a target painter on. You do the math.

Wow, you missed the point... on TQ Guided Missile Precision (GMP) doesn't apply to Torps. Post Retribution it will.

An Exp radius of 774 for Rage Torps is +19.1% increase on the current Exp Radius on TQ (650). Which means with Guided Missile Precision 4 (Level 4 GMP) you will have a smaller Exp Radius than at present (774*.8 = 619.2). Coupled with the DPS buff (608 vs 576) and that means that Rage torps would be doing more damage after Dec 4.

And yes, I get that Rage Torps still won't apply all of that DPS; I understand they'll probably be still bad at applying DPS generally. But they will apply more DPS than at present; this is generally referred to as a DPS buff.

Coupled with the fact that Javelin torps won't stop you dead in the water, and Rage torps won't blow your sig up massively, this (overall) constitutes a significant buff to Torps. It probably won't be enough to make then actually get used, but nevertheless it's a major buff.

Edit: I'd also suggest checking out this - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=168820 - thread for the TP changes. Which will also Buff Torps.

Maybe I did miss something according to the Dev posts ive read the changes to modules affecting missiles has been "postPWND" by the Devs. Until they "see how the current missile changes affect eve".

So in other words they wont be making those changes for Retribution.



Meaning the GMP skill as you say at level 4 yes will reduce t2 rage torps down to 619 explosion radius this still means the TP are a required fitting to hit an enemy battleship at any range for full dps. In addition to this still means you also need a web to hit for full dps at any range due to the horrid explosion velocity of rage torpedoes (61 + 50% at lvl 5) = 91.5 which is about 10 to 20% below the average rate of speed for a Battleship not MWDing or AFBing.
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TLDR you will still need two modules as basically a requirement for dealing full dps at any range even with maxed or near maxed tertiary skills. What good is a buff as you say thats big but still doesnt make the item in question usable?

Fact is the Fittings requirements are still far to high to match other races and the t1 ammo is better in every plausible instance over the t2 ammo.