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What is enough ME research for most of the blueprints?

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Scorpii Borealis
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#1 - 2012-11-03 12:10:48 UTC
Hi!

I am researching some module blueprints and I was wondering if ME10 would be enough to start production?
Lady Naween
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2012-11-03 12:29:41 UTC
Depends... on some items it is to much.. on some not enough. You really have to do the math.

http://zofu.no-ip.de/bpo
Zifrian
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-11-03 12:44:30 UTC
I go minimum of 15 but 10 is fine to start.

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ISD Steel Hide
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#4 - 2012-11-03 16:57:30 UTC
Everyone will give you a different answer to this question. Knowing the formulas will help come up with the best answer for you as in the end it truely is your personal preference.

Most BPO have a built in wastage of 10% at ME 0. A smaller number (generally ammo) have a base wastage of 5%.

The forumula for Wastage is [base wastage] * 1 / ( 1 + [ME_Level]). Based on that formula at ME 9 you have removed 90% of the watage you could ever remove from that print not accounting for your skills. Most people round it to ME 10 cause it looks nicer.

While some prints dont hit perfect no wastage values at very high ME levels, getting there is generally not worth it in terms of time and money spent researching the print. Where you stop is up to you and how much you truely want to reduce the wastage on your BPO's.

[b]ISD Steel Hide Ensign Community Communication Liasons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#5 - 2012-11-03 20:35:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Scorpii Borealis wrote:
Hi!

I am researching some module blueprints and I was wondering if ME10 would be enough to start production?

Could be.

10% waste / (10 M.E. + 1) = 0.91% waste so less than 1% waste.

I typically recommend 20 for most things which is less than 0.5% waste.

Assuming you have Production Efficiency 5 that is.
Scorpii Borealis
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#6 - 2012-11-03 22:50:19 UTC
No production effiency V yet, but I have prints already in research. Thanks for answering.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#7 - 2012-11-04 03:42:57 UTC
Scorpii Borealis wrote:
No production effiency V yet, but I have prints already in research. Thanks for answering.


Get it. It's way more important than ME research on any individual blueprint simply because it applies to every manufacturing job you run. It doesn't hurt that it's not a shabby amount either.
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#8 - 2012-11-04 11:01:00 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Scorpii Borealis wrote:
No production effiency V yet, but I have prints already in research. Thanks for answering.


Get it. It's way more important than ME research on any individual blueprint simply because it applies to every manufacturing job you run. It doesn't hurt that it's not a shabby amount either.


There's nothing wrong with starting BPO research before you've trained Production Efficinecy to 5, though.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#9 - 2012-11-05 15:46:13 UTC
ME 10 is always worth it. What ever the waste is you will reduce it by 90%.

Perfect ME is the point where additional ME research does not save you addition materials. Perfect ME is very rarely worth pursuing as the cost of the research is much higher than the slight benefit it gives you.

Personally I have a pile of BPO's with ME 100. Moslt because I have a POS with labs available and I hate to have empty research slots. Any BPO not currently needed gets thrown back in when I have a slot to fill.

ME 100 is usually only slightly better profit wise than ME 10. If ME 10 leaves you with 1% waste ME 100 will leave you will 0.1% waste. On some BPO's this can safe you a lot of isk, but for the most part those extra 90 ME points only saves you 0.9% waste which in most cases is marginal. The BPO's that it would make a real difference in are ones that take over a month to research 1 ME. And those are almost never researched past ME 2-3 just due to the research time.

I would not hold off production to wait on further research if you already have it to ME 10. But if in the near future you find those BPO's sitting idle in your hanger, might as well throw them back in for a few more points.
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-11-05 18:31:14 UTC
Let me just add

There are some blue prints where ME 0 is fine because the amounts of raw materials are so low that researching the ME at all is a waste of time and money.

Small rigs are a good example of this. The reason for this is because of the rounding that goes into the materials needed calculation. Take the Small Hybrid Metastasis Adjuster I Blueprint for example.

The material with the highest required quantity is 4. Plugging that into the formula Steel Hide provided means that you will waste

.1/1 * 4 = .4 Fried Interface Circuits. Since that is less than .5, the calculation drops it, meaning that even with max waste, you have not actually used any additional materials.

Do the math. Assuming that you need to take everything to 10, or 5, or some arbitrary number is just wrong and it's going to waste you time you could be using the make goods for sale.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#11 - 2012-11-05 21:09:57 UTC
Blueprint calculators FTW. Blink

Like the one on my site.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Rebecca Cairn
Imperial Corrections Service.
#12 - 2012-11-06 03:12:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Rebecca Cairn
nm. Oops