Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I feel that with all of the changes, improvements, and balances, that it's about time CONCORD was made fightable again.

• My geeky reasoning first.

CONCORD isn't an omnipotent force in the story of EVE. They are threatend, fought back against, and even have their backs put against a wall. Templar One is a great book that anyone not to cool to read, should.

• The real opinion.

Players are better suited today to deal with undesirables in high sec, then they were when CONCORD was made into a god force. With the upcoming crimewatch changes, and the bounty system, I just don't see any reason why "suicide" ganking needs to remain.

I would rather pilots died fighting CONCORD.

The truth is, if someone decides that you are their target, you're going to get blown up. The bad guys aren't exactly needlessly assaulting everything in their path, and I think that is the roll that CONCORD should serve, moderator.

Instead of shoot player > die, how about:
Shoot player, suspect flag, 15 FFA enabled.
CONCORD warps in, you can't warp out -period- there is no counter, no possibility for you to get away without destroying the CONCORD force.

While the victim is being shot at by the bad guy, CONCORD is shooting said bad guy just like a normal NPC. Just give CONCORD the hard AI. Make CONCORD spawn based on the agressor, like spawning ships of the appropriate size and number to deal with them.

The victim still gets a killright and can set it to public if they want. In the meantime the bad guy has a 15 minute FFA flag that allows anyone to shoot them. If they go near a gate, there's CONCORD, if they go near a station they run into CONCORD, if they stay in the same place for to long -and I'm talking seconds here- CONCORD will spawn. If they go near a gate, CONCORD will attack them; if there are navy guys there they will too. If the bad guy can fight everyone off they can jump, and right into more CONCORD and navy.



As an aside,
I don't really know what happens when you shoot one of those NPC transport ships, I always assumed it was treated like attacking a player; CONCORD jumps in and blasts you. I've never tried or asked.

I wouldn't mind seeing people being able to use them as actual content though. We blow them up, and the NPC corp that they work for puts a bounty on us. The more of them you shoot the higher that bounty gets, but never allowed to get into rediculous ranges; I'm thinking hundreds of thousands and not hundreds of millions.

All the crimewatch mechanics can apply to those NPC's just like they were players.

This way the bad guys have something other than just players they can shoot at that would allow them to be the bad guy and possibly generate more consensual pvp. Naturally they would have to be worth shooting, but aside from just loot drops they could have pirate missions that require them to destroy them. Caldari corps could even have agents that hire you for a little corporate sabotage.



I'm more interested in what other players would think of something like this than I am in making an actual suggestion.

I personally think it would make high sec more fun. I would have enjoyed it a lot more when I got ganked in high sec if I could have hopped into a crappy ship real quick and jumped back to where the guy blew me up, and been able to shoot his ass back. If they had been in the midst of trying not to get blown up by CONCORD, I would feel much more comfortable shooting at the guy as a player who doesn't actally do pvp.

That and they're giving players the tools to do what CONCORD was made to do because players didn't really have the tools to do it, enforce a penalty on the agressor that would result in a loss for them. I do not see a reason to keep mechanics that do not directly support the tools that we are given. CONCORD doesn't say, here do this, it's more like, don't worry about it we've done it for you.

I also feel that this would allow for some truelly viable policing of high sec systems by players.


TL;DR I guess
They've said they want to foster conflict in high sec, CONCORD does the exact opposite. "Suiciding" in order to initiate more pvp in high sec is not fostering more conflict. If you really want to foster conflict in high sec then remove the suicide mechanic; it's needless at this point.

Actually, I like it. I don't see any reason for Concord to be unkillable and instant death to any players that go up against them. Most of what was posted in the OPs first two paragraphs was quite agreeable to me, though I didn't read beyond that. Sure, ulterior motives might exist, but who cares.

Concord is too OP, and they should be brought down. I believe I have advocated this before, suggesting instead, a modified Sleeper AI. I never mentioned response before, and I think that was the only thing I disagreed with here. Response should be based on the Security and centralization of the system. (i.e.: Jita Would be maximum response, (though maybe still staged), a place like Orvolle would be moderate and lower than your average system of that security level generally, Uedama might be slightly higher than most any other 0.5 due to its importance as a trade route, etc..

Actually, you could classify all High security systems by adding another decimal to their security level, just like the means of classifying Nullsec systems. (This is technically likely to be in place already, but it probably needs to be re-evaluated.) Using that, you could base Concord response on those variables, with a 0.54 system eliciting a greater response than say a 0.63 or 0.71 system.

Uedama could be in around 0.56 for example, due primarily to its strategic importance, yet still low due to it's decentralization.

It's a good idea, and properly implemented, it could change the face of EVE forever. I'll admit that that has been done a lot already, but this would be good.

In before Bat Country become the new m0o

Or you could just blow people up in null/low/wh's where concord doesn't exist?

This is a pretty good idea. I can see it motivating a lot of fights and bringing back the "solo ganker". Combined with the new crimewatch mechanics it would really allow "crime" and criminals to operate in Empire space.

I started EVE in '05. This is my main today, and the only guy I've ever lived in null with. I've only lived in null for like a year.

Where do you think I played in those other 6?

Sorry, but if someone tries to gank me and I have the ability to fight back, and Concord is working on them too, I'm going to do everything I can to make sure that ship is dust before mine is, assuming Concord doesn't do it first.

Sleepers are powerful; there is no reason Concord couldn't be beatable while also being very hard to defeat without proper coordination and tactics. Assume that anyone who engages Concord after first response will get a Criminal flag, and anyone who assists them will gain a suspect flag.

This means that anyone engaging Concord will have not only them as a potential deterrent, but any players in the vicinity who know they can get in on potentially easy kills. It also means that anyone engaging Concord will step away from the traditional one ship suicide gank unless that is their primary goal, (it will not become obsolete, though it might become just a bit easier.), and move towards larger fleets and coordinated attacks.

That doesn't hurt anybody, and makes things much more interesting for all parties involved. All parties being everyone in the area and possibly further out. Highsec would invariably become a little less safe, but ultimately much more dynamic and interesting for all players there.

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Currently, to put it bluntly, Highsec is boring and predictable in almost every respect, even uninteresting in its entirety. Ganks are predictable; Concord is predictable; Typical Highsec activities are predictable and typical.

The only thing that change are the number of ships required for a successful gank, the ships are better at ganking, and which ships are getting ganked.

Crimewatch 2.0 will change the dynamics somewhat, but largely it will remain the same. It does nothing by itself to change how it is done. It may even stagnate it by further limiting the options available and restricting variations in Highsec PvP even further. That just makes it more predictable.

Wardecs changed a few things too, but now we have forever wars that result in no conflict whatsoever for the most part. I don't see how this is good, and I can see Wardecs eventually becoming an unused feature, aside from those forever wars that sit there stagnating while being counted as an amusing trap for those using it thus.

That is going to last as long as Wardecs continue to be applied, and as long as players hold on to there corporations hoping to save them from this fate in an eventual patch. Should that patch not come and be stated as not needed, a number of players will simply quit their Corporations and disband them.

This could mean many players leaving the game as their playstyle is no longer effectively supported.

It's all these play-styles that make EVE interesting, not just any one of them. Restricting gameplay to certain specific elements of that which is existing will only serve to restrict the number and types of players available. Changing those dynamics so it can work for everybody will make the game more available and interesting to a wider variety of players.

I'm of the opinion that EVE should have a great diversity of players. This makes it more dynamic, more interesting, and far less predictable. One thing I wonder, is where are the players who like to fight against the Pirates, unlike the players who find it amusing to trap them in Wars without consequence to themselves?

I mean really, all Dec Shield is, is some Alts of Highsec industrialists and miners creating grief for Pirates by exploiting a flawed game mechanic for their own amusement. Outside of handling acceptance of Decced Corps, graphing numbers of poor trapped pirates, and blatantly showing off the spoils of their zero risk enterprise, it is nothing more than an alternative to sitting in a belt for hours doing nothing.

At least that is the impression I'm getting.

Is that what EVE is really about?

Not empty quoting

You should read the response to that.

Nor does it say anything about what I posted. I'm only left with the impression that my sound logic was irrefutable; so thank you.


PS: I was under the impression that CONOCRD was not originally designed as an unstopable force, and that they were made so because people didn't have the proper tools to deal with agression in high sec themselves.

If we will now have the tools, why keep CONOCRD the way they are?

I'd rather see an evadeable CONCORD than a fightable one---all the highsec safety buffs started with that---sort of like how you can evade faction navies right now. CC would still insta-gib/jam if they caught you, but it would be smash and grab rather than smash and alt scoop.