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New Dec Shield Twist? Wardecs Even After Surrender?

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JustAnotherPlaceHolder
Content Providers
#1 - 2012-11-02 00:28:08 UTC  |  Edited by: JustAnotherPlaceHolder
What happens when a defender corp is wardecced, surrenders, their surrender is accepted, the 24hr cooldown begins, and THEN Dec Shield accepts them into the Alliance (many hours later, if that matters)?

I'm guessing that since we got the Dec Shield notice when the defender corp was accepted into Dec Shield, we'll still get the decs. Is that the case?

I'm not terribly concerned about the decs, I'll just move out of the corp, but I hadn't realized that the system was so broken that even after a surrender this technique could be used. Pretty weird.
usrevenge
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2012-11-02 02:21:10 UTC
hopefully, perma dec for u.
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#3 - 2012-11-02 02:22:21 UTC
Yep, the war dec system has always supported a bigger, better force easily war deccing you and forcing you to stay docked or leave corp for another one. See nothing new here, move along.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
NickyYo
modro
The Initiative.
#4 - 2012-11-02 02:46:11 UTC
JustAnotherPlaceHolder wrote:
What happens when a defender corp is wardecced, surrenders, their surrender is accepted, the 24hr cooldown begins, and THEN Dec Shield accepts them into the Alliance (many hours later, if that matters)?

I'm guessing that since we got the Dec Shield notice when the defender corp was accepted into Dec Shield, we'll still get the decs. Is that the case?

I'm not terribly concerned about the decs, I'll just move out of the corp, but I hadn't realized that the system was so broken that even after a surrender this technique could be used. Pretty weird.


Sounds like you need to learn more about the game or move back to wow.

..
JustAnotherPlaceHolder
Content Providers
#5 - 2012-11-02 04:20:07 UTC
usrevenge wrote:
hopefully, perma dec for u.

everyone dropped roles less than 2 minutes after the dec shield mail came in. we'll simply move to another corp. no perma dec for me. i have other **** to get done.

rodyas wrote:
Yep, the war dec system has always supported a bigger, better force easily war deccing you and forcing you to stay docked or leave corp for another one. See nothing new here, move along.

way to completely miss the point. i don't give a **** about war decs, i'm asking how it is someone can surrender and i still end up with decs. i'm the one who issued the war dec in the first goddamn place. lol.
NickyYo wrote:
Sounds like you need to learn more about the game or move back to wow.

lolwut. stop with the huffing, Gold Paint Guy
Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts.
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#6 - 2012-11-02 04:47:15 UTC
rodyas wrote:
Yep, the war dec system has always supported a bigger, better force easily war deccing you and forcing you to stay docked or leave corp for another one. See nothing new here, move along.


You literally didn't read the op. All you saw was "wardec" and said nothing related to what he asked.

Member of the Pink Pony Killboard Padding Alliance
Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts.
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#7 - 2012-11-02 04:48:55 UTC
NickyYo wrote:
JustAnotherPlaceHolder wrote:
What happens when a defender corp is wardecced, surrenders, their surrender is accepted, the 24hr cooldown begins, and THEN Dec Shield accepts them into the Alliance (many hours later, if that matters)?

I'm guessing that since we got the Dec Shield notice when the defender corp was accepted into Dec Shield, we'll still get the decs. Is that the case?

I'm not terribly concerned about the decs, I'll just move out of the corp, but I hadn't realized that the system was so broken that even after a surrender this technique could be used. Pretty weird.


Sounds like you need to learn more about the game or move back to wow.


How do you suppose he learn more about the mechanics, if the response to him trying to learn more about the mechanics with questions is "learn the mechanics"? You are dumb.

Member of the Pink Pony Killboard Padding Alliance
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#8 - 2012-11-02 05:53:11 UTC  |  Edited by: rodyas
Quote:
You literally didn't read the op. All you saw was "wardec" and said nothing related to what he asked.


Quote:
way to completely miss the point. i don't give a **** about war decs, i'm asking how it is someone can surrender and i still end up with decs. i'm the one who issued the war dec in the first goddamn place. lol.


Eh, I did read his post, but didn't know the answer. Just knew about setting it mutual, bet have never heard of that being done after the surrender.

But the second poster, did a funny troll, and since I didn't know the answer, thought it would be fun to troll the OP. Looked for a weakness in what he wrote and struck. Found he didn't like the idea of what could happen and deemed it unfair. So I just went with the post that most wardecs are never fair, and are used a lot of times just to beat up on people.

So in a way what could happen is normal and nothing to complain about.


But who knows what the answer is to his question.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#9 - 2012-11-02 06:10:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
In fairness to the OP, the way the mutual war mechanics are working with Dec Shield needs to be fixed.

No, this has nothing to do with me being in the CFC, no, I am not a Goon sympathiser. Alliances should get penalised for maintaining more than one mutual war as a defender.

The CEO of Dec Shield is actively campaigning to get it fixed. Even he thinks it's stupid.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
JustAnotherPlaceHolder
Content Providers
#10 - 2012-11-02 14:51:07 UTC
rodyas wrote:
Quote:
You literally didn't read the op. All you saw was "wardec" and said nothing related to what he asked.


Quote:
way to completely miss the point. i don't give a **** about war decs, i'm asking how it is someone can surrender and i still end up with decs. i'm the one who issued the war dec in the first goddamn place. lol.


Eh, I did read his post, but didn't know the answer. Just knew about setting it mutual, bet have never heard of that being done after the surrender.

But the second poster, did a funny troll, and since I didn't know the answer, thought it would be fun to troll the OP. Looked for a weakness in what he wrote and struck. Found he didn't like the idea of what could happen and deemed it unfair. So I just went with the post that most wardecs are never fair, and are used a lot of times just to beat up on people.

So in a way what could happen is normal and nothing to complain about.

But who knows what the answer is to his question.

I'll just leave the immortal words of Darth Gustav here (with an edit): "He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled attempts to troll the troller.
-Darth Gustav's Axiom"
JustAnotherPlaceHolder
Content Providers
#11 - 2012-11-02 14:53:05 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
In fairness to the OP, the way the mutual war mechanics are working with Dec Shield needs to be fixed.

No, this has nothing to do with me being in the CFC, no, I am not a Goon sympathiser. Alliances should get penalised for maintaining more than one mutual war as a defender.

The CEO of Dec Shield is actively campaigning to get it fixed. Even he thinks it's stupid.

I'm not choked up about it or anything. It's just really, really strange. Of all the ways I thought it could be broken, decs after a surrender just never occurred to me. Surrender means end of the war, right? Bizarre. Someone just did not think through the war dec mechanic. I mean, they completely dropped the ball.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#12 - 2012-11-02 15:18:48 UTC
JustAnotherPlaceHolder wrote:
Arduemont wrote:
In fairness to the OP, the way the mutual war mechanics are working with Dec Shield needs to be fixed.

No, this has nothing to do with me being in the CFC, no, I am not a Goon sympathiser. Alliances should get penalised for maintaining more than one mutual war as a defender.

The CEO of Dec Shield is actively campaigning to get it fixed. Even he thinks it's stupid.

I'm not choked up about it or anything. It's just really, really strange. Of all the ways I thought it could be broken, decs after a surrender just never occurred to me. Surrender means end of the war, right? Bizarre. Someone just did not think through the war dec mechanic. I mean, they completely dropped the ball.

I think the 24 hour period before the war is officially over is the cause in this particular case.

And yes, war dec (mutual wars in particular) are broken. I don't think it will really take too much to get them working as intended, but for now you are correct to abandon your corp (sad to say).

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
JustAnotherPlaceHolder
Content Providers
#13 - 2012-11-02 16:55:38 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
I think the 24 hour period before the war is officially over is the cause in this particular case.

And yes, war dec (mutual wars in particular) are broken. I don't think it will really take too much to get them working as intended, but for now you are correct to abandon your corp (sad to say).

I'm not overly attached to the corp. It's just a name and shared hangars/wallet, after all. Besides, assuming I can drop corp and close it (I'm not sure if the last person in a corp can drop if there's a wardec, but we'll find out in a few hours), I'll just recreate the exact same corp name, logo, etc..

I put in a petition for clarification, just to make sure, but I'm 99.9% that they'll deny the obviousness of their bad design and declare "working as intended." As though they intended for people to continue spawning decs after surrender.

I'm not sure if this is the place to mention it, but it occurs to me that the defender corp in this arrangement has an offline POS in Inari (I'll add the moon when I get home). It was still up about 8 hrs ago, so if anyone is enjoying the target selection opportunities provided by the perma Dec Shield wars, they can add the POS to their list of things to destroy.
JustAnotherPlaceHolder
Content Providers
#14 - 2012-11-03 02:17:40 UTC
JustAnotherPlaceHolder wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
I think the 24 hour period before the war is officially over is the cause in this particular case.

And yes, war dec (mutual wars in particular) are broken. I don't think it will really take too much to get them working as intended, but for now you are correct to abandon your corp (sad to say).

I'm not overly attached to the corp. It's just a name and shared hangars/wallet, after all. Besides, assuming I can drop corp and close it (I'm not sure if the last person in a corp can drop if there's a wardec, but we'll find out in a few hours), I'll just recreate the exact same corp name, logo, etc..

I put in a petition for clarification, just to make sure, but I'm 99.9% that they'll deny the obviousness of their bad design and declare "working as intended." As though they intended for people to continue spawning decs after surrender.

I'm not sure if this is the place to mention it, but it occurs to me that the defender corp in this arrangement has an offline POS in Inari (I'll add the moon when I get home). It was still up about 8 hrs ago, so if anyone is enjoying the target selection opportunities provided by the perma Dec Shield wars, they can add the POS to their list of things to destroy.

I eat my words with my crow: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2131751#post2131751

good job sorting out that detail ccp, but please turn off the auto evemail
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#15 - 2012-11-03 02:25:08 UTC
How many threads are we going to make tonight?
The Zerg Overmind
Rule Reversal
#16 - 2012-11-03 10:26:07 UTC
The actual wardec mechanics haven't changed. If the war starts retracting before the corp joins the alliance then the alliance will not get the war. There are two flavors of this:

1.) The war starts retracting before the alliance hits accept on the application
In this case the war will actually be completely gone before the corp joins the alliance.

2.) The war starts retracting after the alliance hits accept on the application
In this case the war does not transfer to the alliance, but stays with the corp until the retraction is done. This means that it's actually possible to be at war with the corporation while they're part of the alliance until the war is fully retracted.

Those mechanics don't seem have changed. The new game feature that we asked for was that the aggressor is now sent a notification warning message when their target joins an alliance. Something to give a 24hr warning message, to prevent surprise wardecs. This feature seems to have appeared VERY recently, and quietly. The message apparently says you'll be at war with the alliance in 24hrs regardless of whether or not the war is retracting before they join the alliance.

Glad I could confuse the issue for everyone :P

Burn Highsec Griefers
Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#17 - 2012-11-03 10:34:31 UTC
you were declared war upon
then you surrendered
then you joined an alliance before the cooldown period was up

lolwut? Lol
ISD TYPE40
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2012-11-03 10:53:09 UTC
Thread locked at OP's request - ISD Type40.

[b]ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]